Plummer Is A Pro Bowler

[Dback Jon]

Originally posted by earthsci
You get your average Joe who's watching MNF last night hearing Madden talk about how the great players in the NFL like Ricky Williams, Drew Bledsoe and Jake Plummer do this and that and that's how they form their opinion. They are sheep. The media tells something, it's fact.

In the immortal words of Joe Jackson -

"They wouldn't print it if it wasn't true!"
Sunday Paper

True, plus all those ASU fans who can't let go of their hero

 

[Lex]

Yea those ASU fans, they just wanted Suggs here because he attended ASU. Idiots.

Jake Plummer will never be anything more than a backup in this league.

Jake Plummer will never get more than a minimum contract when we kick his rats ass out of town.

Jake Plummer will end up on some bad team, no good teams will take him.

Jake Plummer will be benched by week 3.

Jake Plummer will learn what pressure is once Shannon Sharpe tears into him in the media, since Jake can't find the tight end.

Jake Plummer hasn't played any good teams yet, wait till he has to play the mighty mighty raiders.

Jake Plummer will never be a pro Bowler.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by earthsci
You get your average Joe who's watching MNF last night hearing Madden talk about how the great players in the NFL like Ricky Williams, Drew Bledsoe and Jake Plummer do this and that and that's how they form their opinion. They are sheep. The media tells something, it's fact.

In the immortal words of Joe Jackson -

"They wouldn't print it if it wasn't true!"
Sunday Paper

Madden doesn't like Jake that much, says he's inaccurate and mistake prone. He played well Monday so John was nice about it but he opened the show talking about his inaccuracy and he's repeated it since, the key to Denver's season is can Jake continue to play smart football or will he revert? He's playing the best ball of his career, this is only the 2nd time in his career he's gone 3 games without a pick, the last was 2001 and he had only 3 td's during those 3 games, he's had 7 this year.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Lex
Yea those ASU fans, they just wanted Suggs here because he attended ASU. Idiots.


Jake Plummer will be benched by week 3.

Jake Plummer will learn what pressure is once Shannon Sharpe tears into him in the media, since Jake can't find the tight end.

Sharpe already complained about it, said Jake needed to learn to trust his teammates and spread the ball around. Also said they put all their eggs in Jake's basket and they hope Jake doesn't drop the basket. Sharpe caught 6 balls Sunday but only caught 7 the first 3 weeks. At his current rate he'll get his career low in catches for a full season as the starter. The key thing keeping him happy is he has 3 TD catches already because Shanahan is using that misdirection throw to the TE stuff in the redzone. It's great for giving Jake confidence, and for keeping Sharpe happy, but the only reason Jake is getting him those passes is Sharpe is the primary receiver on those plays.

 

[HIX]

Like crabs in a barrell, when one tries to climb out the others try to pull him back in.

You guys can talk about how bad he was here

You can talk about how he threw INTs

You can say he made bad decisions

But don't take away from his performances by saying that the only reason he is good is because Shannahan is holding his hand and only allowing him to throw the "easy" passes. He is doing good so far this year and while you sit here and wait for the other shoe to drop he will play his game and play within the scheme the OC gave him. You thought Blake was so much better than Jake, but what has he done for the cards? Nothing? Why? Because the system here is so f-d up.

You said that he couldn't win w/o Portis...and he won. It's time for you to admit that he is a decent QB.

 

[Bobcat]

Russ I hate to pick on you. Have you ever seen the espn production on John Elway??? On how Dan R. was holding him back, and not letting John be John. Well Tobin, Tressmen, Olsen and Mac did the same to Jake. In comes Shanahan and Elway is saved. He and Kubiac worked with John and turned him into a Hall of Famer. Now Shanahan has done more for Jake than any Cardinal coach ever did to accomodate Jakes strong point. I don't know if Jake will ever achieve Elways credintials, But give the Kid a break.

Here is a piece of news you probably didn't know. When Jake signed his 25million dollar contract it was stipulated by Tobin and the Cardinal brass that Jake was to become a pocket type passer, because his career would be shortened as a free lance type QB. In other words, they were and still are control freaks.
Now that is like telling Randy Johnson that he must only throw change-ups and off-speed pitches or he will kill his arm. Please Russ get off of Jakes back. Let's see how he developes, then we can all comment.

Allan

Also Sharp has only praised Jake, where did he ever say anything negative.

Allan

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
KingofCards, you overstepped. You now get a three day break from ASFN.

Why?

Please explain how he overstepped.

I know it can't be the language, because others do it and it's ignored.

Is regional humor not allowed, or was something he originally posted deleted?

Can we not make fun of Idaho or Canada?

Someone else posted about Idaho and the Aryans...and they didn't get a three day break...

Again, please explain what exactly got Tango's panties in a bunch (just an expression).

Thanks.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Bobcat
Russ I hate to pick on you. Have you ever seen the espn production on John Elway??? On how Dan R. was holding him back, and not letting John be John. Well Tobin, Tressmen, Olsen and Mac did the same to Jake. In comes Shanahan and Elway is saved. He and Kubiac worked with John and turned him into a Hall of Famer. Now Shanahan has done more for Jake than any Cardinal coach ever did to accomodate Jakes strong point. I don't know if Jake will ever achieve Elways credintials, But give the Kid a break.

Here is a piece of news you probably didn't know. When Jake signed his 25million dollar contract it was stipulated by Tobin and the Cardinal brass that Jake was to become a pocket type passer, because his career would be shortened as a free lance type QB. In other words, they were and still are control freaks.
Now that is like telling Randy Johnson that he must only throw change-ups and off-speed pitches or he will kill his arm. Please Russ get off of Jakes back. Let's see how he developes, then we can all comment.

Allan

Also Sharp has only praised Jake, where did he ever say anything negative.

Allan

Reeves is a very conservative coach, Trestman wasn't he had to cut his offense back for Jake not the other way around.

For years we were told after Jake signed the 29.7 deal he was told not to run, and for years the coaches AND jake denied it. I seriously doubt someone put in the contract you can't run, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they told him to be careful you're the key to our offense, but I doubt they flat out said don't run.

The reason it seemed that way is in both 99 and 2000 he played with injuries and ran less, he had more rushing yards in 2002 than he did in 99 and 2000 combined. Denver has decided that the way to use him is to use his feet, misdirections, bootlegs, rollouts, and get him out of the pocket.

This is probably right but the risk is it does expose him to hits on the run that have already caused him to get hurt once this year. I'm on record I'm not sure he (or any QB) can last the year in that style.

Shanahan is doing a marvelous job with Jake, just as he did with Frerotte for part of a year, and with Griese. The NFL eventually caught up with what he was doing with those 2, the question is will they with Jake? I tend to think they will, the question is when and how will Jake respond?

I'm on record I think jake's end of year QB rating will be lower than Griese's was last year, which was 85.6 I believe. He'll probably have his career best rating this year it would be tough not to given the talent on that team. Shanahan has impressed me I thought it was his ego talking with this move but he's done a lot more with Jake than I expected. I frankly figured by midseason everyone would be asking what's wrong with Portis and when is Plummer going to be benched, Portis looks better than last year and jake looks awfully good at the moment.

The main thing he has to prove now is he can put together 2 halves because he hasn't yet and will probably have to in the next 5 games they play against good teams.

The Sharpe quote was in all the papers after the Cincy game, he said he hoped Jake wouldn't drop the basket, and he needed to dump the ball off more instead of forcing balls downfield. he has so far and that's why Sharpe is being quiet.

 

[Lex]

BIM- deleted. See Tango's post on page 3 here.

Something about being sick of a bumper.

Just King being King.

 

[Bobcat]

Didn't you see how Rich G. went off at Trestman. I think that Mark was just trying to cover his ass why he was fired here. In the real world a coah should try to cultivate his staff. Trestman was fired S.F. wasn't he? Jake is still young most QB's don't develope until they are in there late 20's to early 30's. Might be because todays offenses and defenses are so complexe.

Russ do you remember the kick returner San fran had in the R.C. owens era? Saw him run back one at Yankee stadium agaist the Giants in 1960's. He was considered the best of his day.

ALlan

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Bobcat
Didn't you see how Rich G. went off at Trestman. I think that Mark was just trying to cover his ass why he was fired here. In the real world a coah should try to cultivate his staff. Trestman was fired S.F. wasn't he? Jake is still young most QB's don't develope until they are in there late 20's to early 30's. Might be because todays offenses and defenses are so complexe.

Russ do you remember the kick returner San fran had in the R.C. owens era? Saw him run back one at Yankee stadium agaist the Giants in 1960's. He was considered the best of his day.

ALlan

Not old enough to remember that, I was born in 65.

Gannon was yelling at Trestman but as I posted last week, Callahan said it was his fault for the late play calls. as for the calls themselves, Gannon says he wants to throw the ball more, that's Trestman, Callahan wants to run more. Gannon yells at everyone.

I don't know if Trestman was a good OC or not I just know he's not at all conservative he's accused if anything of being too radical by throwing so much. I have a really hard time believing he told Jake don't run, again might have said be careful, but not don't run.

Jake said this year that he was told to make plays in the pocket in Arizona and frankly I took that as I'm gone so it's time to put the blame on others. He more than once when here said that wasn't true, he was secure enough with his contract he could have said it when here if it was true.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Originally posted by Lex
BIM- deleted. See Tango's post on page 3 here.

Something about being sick of a bumper.

Just King being King.

Nothing worthy of a banning, IMHO.

If Tango doesn't like King's humor, he can use the ignore feature.

That, or get some thicker skin.

Many of us here are sick of the Plummer talk.

Maybe there should be another forum on here for "Ex-Cardinals" so everyone wanting to gush on and on about those players can have their say and not mix in with the discussions about THE CURRENT TEAM.

That or the Plummer-lovers can go to a Broncos' board and post poems and fond memories about Jake all they want.

If your main focus right now is to come on this board and talk about Plummer, you are not a diehard Cards' fan. We're all about what's happening NOW. Dallas is next, nothing can be done to change the team's record. Let's move forward.

Go Cards!!!

P.S. Idaho sucks.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by Brian in Mesa
P.S. Idaho sucks.

I DARE you to tell DEVO that!

You must be registered for see images

 

[AZ Shocker]

You thought Blake was so much better than Jake, but what has he done for the cards? Nothing? Why? Because the system here is so f-d up.

Obviously. Good point though.
A lot of us were blaming Jake for this or for that. I think the coaching, and more importantly, the development of players has become dreadfully "exposed".

When Jake signed his 25million dollar contract it was stipulated by Tobin and the Cardinal brass that Jake was to become a pocket type passer, because his career would be shortened as a free lance type QB. In other words, they were and still are control freaks.

It's so true about how everything starts at the top. If they (Bidwills) don't know what there doing (football wise), how can they ever make the right hire(s)? Nothing against the players...but it's unfortunate to have this franchise in our home state. Very embarrasing.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by AZ Shocker
It's so true about how everything starts at the top. If they (Bidwills) don't know what there doing (football wise), how can they ever make the right hire(s)? Nothing against the players...but it's unfortunate to have this franchise in our home state. Very embarrasing.

Mr. Shocker, why do you follow this team? Your posts seem to always containg something about how dreadful it is to have the Cards in AZ, how dreadful the unis are, how they are an embarrassment etc etc etc. Why waste your time following the team if that is how you feel?

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by AZ Shocker
Obviously. Good point though.
A lot of us were blaming Jake for this or for that. I think the coaching, and more importantly, the development of players has become dreadfully "exposed".

I don't see the relevance of that given Bobcat's comment about Blake. Blake is a veteran his development occurred before he got here. The offense we're running now is not the offense we ran with jake, not even close. Can anybody imagine how many picks Jake would have thrown in this offense given how often we throw over the middle?

That's why Warner and Bulger have thrown picks in recent years, other than Warner not being healthy. They throw a TON of balls over the middle on those slants and teams know if you can get some pressure on them, those throws won't be so accurate and you'll get picks.

I think Madcard made the comment about Sully either not realizing or not caring about laying out our WR's, I think that's what the reason is we are really throwing a LOT of balls into the middle right now because we haven't yet established an "outside" vertical passing game, the timing has just been off.

That's why I keep saying if we go to McCown we are going to have problems winning games. He has talent, he needs to play, but if he's throwing the ball as often as Blake in THIS system he'll lead the NFL in picks because right now our passing attack is really focussed on exploiting Boldin, Jones(before the Rams) and our other receivers in the middle of the field.

According to ESPN only 33 of his 108 throws have been to the sideline, purely one fifth of the balls are "middle". McCown has similar ratios, a little less in the middle.

Jake has thrown 93 passes this year, only 5 of which are "middle". Blake has thrown 24 in the middle, even McCown has thrown 5 in the middle in just over 30 attempts. Our offense this year is a much higher risk offense than we ran with jake.

 

[Bobcat]

Rivercard
I don't think that Shocker is agaist the Cards he just wants what we all want and that is a team the represents us in Arizona with style, and grace. In other words an organization that is not 3rd world, but is on the cutting edge of pro sports. i.e. The Phoenix Suns and Az. DimondBacks organization. An owner that cares about his community as well as the bottom line.

Some of us her that spend over $1,000 dollars ayear just to get into the Stadium want something for our money. National Respect would be a good start. But when you have an owner like ours and an NFL "Insider" like MJ you start to wonder. MJ has put the Cardinals down to people all over the NFL. He has ripped us in Western N.Y. where he comes from.

What we need is what happened in Buffalo 20 years ago. Ralph Wilson stopped being a cheap tightwoad and hired a good if not great front office including A GM, nad Coach. Now look what they have done in the last 20 years. Gee shouldn't Mr. B get a clue.

Allan

 

[SECTION 11]

Happy belated birthday, Bobcat.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by Bobcat
Rivercard
I don't think that Shocker is agaist the Cards he just wants what we all want and that is a team the represents us in Arizona with style, and grace. In other words an organization that is not 3rd world, but is on the cutting edge of pro sports. i.e. The Phoenix Suns and Az. DimondBacks organization. An owner that cares about his community as well as the bottom line.

Some of us her that spend over $1,000 dollars ayear just to get into the Stadium want something for our money. National Respect would be a good start. But when you have an owner like ours and an NFL "Insider" like MJ you start to wonder. MJ has put the Cardinals down to people all over the NFL. He has ripped us in Western N.Y. where he comes from.

What we need is what happened in Buffalo 20 years ago. Ralph Wilson stopped being a cheap tightwoad and hired a good if not great front office including A GM, nad Coach. Now look what they have done in the last 20 years. Gee shouldn't Mr. B get a clue.

Allan

I understand Bobcat. We all get frustrated with this team. Let's hope we all get some relief in the near future

 

[Bobcat]

Thank you Section 11!!! I am 57 today. Lived through all those years in NY with the Met's, and In Buffalo with the Bills in the 70's.

What Arch firm do you work for??

Thanks again

Allan

 

[AZ Shocker]

Mr. Shocker, why do you follow this team? Your posts seem to always containg something about how dreadful it is to have the Cards in AZ, how dreadful the unis are, how they are an embarrassment etc etc etc. Why waste your time following the team if that is how you feel?

Rivercard, I suppose that's a valid question, and you are right...I am slightly down on this organization after watching them for 15 years. I tell you what, I'll tell you why I follow this team, as long as you tell me honestly why you follow the Cards as well. You certainly don't have to go in as much detail as I'm about to bore you with....Deal?

The short answer as to why I follow the Cardinals is this:
I love NFL football, and I live here in the Valley of the Sun. Bottom line. I'm a BIG-TIME HOMER. I root for everything ARIZONA! My apologies to sportsfans who started following their particular team only because their uniform's looked cool, or it was the flavor of the month. I guess that makes me old-school and a "throw back", even though I'm only 32 years old.

With that being said, I want to root for my "home" NFL team. I think it goes without saying that most people in the Valley want the "home" teams to do well. Sheesh, we live here! Of course we want our "home" teams to represent us well. If you lived in Chicago, you would find that most people there would be rooting for those teams. Same in any city...

Bobcat pretty much summed it up for me best with his assesment that I'm certainly NOT against the Cards, I "just want what we all want and that is a team the represents us in Arizona with style, and grace. In other words an organization that is not 3rd world, but is on the cutting edge of pro sports. i.e. The Phoenix Suns and Az. DimondBacks organization. An owner that cares about his community as well as the bottom line."

However, it is apparent that a lot of people on this board either starting following the Cards before they moved to Arizona (and are still attached), or they are following them from elsewhere in the country, and could really care less about "what" is going on in Arizona. It's certainly nice having some fans elsewhere around the country, but to me, it is a serious conflict of interest when it pertains to what I'm about to say...

Since this team moved to Arizona as opposed to being BORN here, I do have many issues with their ownership, and how they handle this entire franchise. Mostly though, they seemed to seriously misjudge everything about Arizona. They have not built any momentum in establishing a fan base. It is rare to see Cardinal apperal being worn here. Hardly anyone goes to the games, etc. you know the story. To me, this is the biggest injustice to the community, and could be so easily remedied, to an extent, by simply changing the name for God's sake!

It's NO SECRET that my biggest qualm with the whole Cardinal organization is the "name" of the team. I think it's the most stupidest out of place name in all of sports. It's no wonder, the Rams didn't change their name when they moved to Missouri. Rams officials probably feared that some leftover Cardinal fans would come out of the closet, and make a big fuss about getting their team name back where it belongs. "Whew", said most St. Louisan's, when Rams ownership said, "We'll stick with the Rams name. End of story"

I'm sorry you guys from Missouri and Illinios, but it just doesn't work here. Emmitt said it best, "When you look good, you feel good!"

Please understand...Arizona is one of those unique states in this nation that conjure up certain images because of it's landscape. Much like Florida or Texas for example. Think of all the professional teams names in Florida or Texas for a second, and maybe you'll see where I'm coming from.

In this day of age, the right thing to do is have a marketable name (image). Especially when moving to such a unique state such as Arizona. Twenty to twenty-five years ago and beyond, team names didn't necesarily mean so much from a marketing standpoint. So when teams moved to a different city, it wasn't that big of a "marketing mistake". People accepted, and that's just how it was. Nowadays, it huge. But all that doesn't mean I can't root for the Cardinals. I'm a homer...remember.

When they first moved here, lots of people were hoping they would change their name. That was the first sign to me that this ownership is "stuck" in a time warp. Ever since then and to present, that assumption has pretty much held true. From player contracts to hiring "has beens"...Bidwill seems to be "stuck".

Yes, progress may be happening as we speak. Their are signs. We are paying for a new stadium. Now can we get a Arizona "name". To me (and probably a lot of fellow Arizonan's), a name change would be a "real" symbol of hope signaling that the front office (ownership) is changing it's way of doing business.

Arizonan's want to be proud of our NFL football team for once. Up to this point, with the exception of '98, this franchise has been sadly...a joke.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Originally posted by AZ Shocker
"Whew", said most St. Louisan's, when Rams ownership said, "We'll stick with the Rams name. End of story"

Uh, they're no different than the Cards when it comes to their name.

3 cities (Cleveland, Los Angeles, St. Louis) and they've kept the same name.

And remember - the Rams were the WORST team of the 1990's.

FACT: As long as the Bidwill family owns the team, the name will be the Cardinals, regardless of where they play. Resistance is futile.

Just put on a jersey and meet with us at the next halftime.

Surely if you live here...you go to the home games, right?

Go Cards!!!

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by Brian in Mesa
Uh, they're no different than the Cards when it comes to their name.
3 cities (Cleveland, Los Angeles, St. Louis) and they've kept the same name.

And last I checked there weren't many Rams roaming around the streets of St. Louis either.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Rivercard
And last I checked there weren't many Rams roaming around the streets of St. Louis either.

Or Raiders in Oakland or Giants in New York(and they play in New Jersey) etc.

I am not saying picking a name like Wranglers might not have helped in the beginning, I just refuse to believe Arizona fans aren't buying tickets because of the team name. They aren't buying tickets because of the teams record, the stadium, the heat etc, but not the team name.

There's a whole generation of 49er fans who have no clue what the name means but they sell out every weekend.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by AZ Shocker
Rivercard, I tell you what, I'll tell you why I follow this team, as long as you tell me honestly why you follow the Cards as well.

OK. That's fair. I got hooked on the Cards when they were in St. Louis. I was a younin' living in Louisville and my dad was a big Redskin fan (he used to live in Virginia). In my teens, every year my family would drive to St. Louis to see the Cards play the Skins. We'd get 2nd row end zone seats. It was so exciting. I loved everything about being in an NFL stadium - talking with other fans, watching the players warm-up, the food, the game, the scoreboard, everything. And before long I loved the Cardinals. (Plus, I'd go to all the Louisville Cardinals games so I had a double whammy of Cardinals). The bird helmet became an icon that for some reason still brings me pleasure just to look at. Maybe in a way it takes me back to those family outings at the stadium.
But I can understand your point of view - It's Arizona's team now. I wondered if I would still follow the team when they moved to Arizona. But of course I did - probably always will. Yes they are a frustrating team to support but somewhere along the way they have become like family member. And when a family member F's-up you've got to stand by them as best you can even when you feel like strangling them.