Polarized Thinking Has Taken Over this Board and I'm Sick of It

[kerouac9]

What were you saying about Rosen after the first few games last year?

I ask because I supported Rosen throughout the year and offseason. However, I see a completely different player/skill set. Similar challenges around him but couldn't be more encouraged by Murray so far.

He isn't Tom Brady but he also didn't sit for a year and inherit a Super Bowl winning roster/supporting cast.

Don't forget even Tom Brady didn't set the world on fire statistically in his first year (2nd year in NFL):

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Why would you have the same expectations for a 6th round QB who couldn't win the starting job in college and the #1 overall pick? That's crazytown.

 

[blindseyed]

I love everyone.

I......

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[Cbus cardsfan]

I wasn’t a fan of Murray pick but only pointed out what I saw were his flaws. Have never gotten on anybody else about their opinion.

I had/have a much tougher time coming to grips with Kingsbury hiring. There is not on qualification he had to be handed the keys to the franchise.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

My biggest problem with Murray has shown itself to be an issue.

He’s not able to stand tall and make a throw from the pocket when the rush is beating down on him. Instead he ducks, spins, or something else and doesn’t keep his eyes downfield to make a throw.

I also thought he’d be great on broken plays, which he has been, but you can’t build an offense like that.

I watched rookies Daniel Jones and Minshew stand in the pocket and make downfield throws in their early starts. NFL Qbs need to do that.

 

[TheCardFan]

Why would you have the same expectations for a 6th round QB who couldn't win the starting job in college and the #1 overall pick? That's crazytown.

Comparing Murray to the GOAT's first year as a starting QB in the NFL? Yeah...its relevant.

In addition, Brady got dropped into a Super Bowl roster and Murray took over the worst team in the NFL.

Brady started 25 games at Michigan BTW.

 

[DVontel]

My biggest problem with Murray has shown itself to be an issue.

He’s not able to stand tall and make a throw from the pocket when the rush is beating down on him. Instead he ducks, spins, or something else and doesn’t keep his eyes downfield to make a throw.

I also thought he’d be great on broken plays, which he has been, but you can’t build an offense like that.

I watched rookies Daniel Jones and Minshew stand in the pocket and make downfield throws in their early starts. NFL Qbs need to do that.

He legit made several against Baltimore.....

 

[PACardsFan]

My biggest problem with Murray has shown itself to be an issue.

He’s not able to stand tall and make a throw from the pocket when the rush is beating down on him. Instead he ducks, spins, or something else and doesn’t keep his eyes downfield to make a throw.

I also thought he’d be great on broken plays, which he has been, but you can’t build an offense like that.

I watched rookies Daniel Jones and Minshew stand in the pocket and make downfield throws in their early starts. NFL Qbs need to do that.

What games are you watching? He’s done that numerous times already. I was in Baltimore & saw it firsthand. He’ll only leave the pocket when no one is open & he has to. Not 100% sold on KK, but K1 is legit.

 

[kerouac9]

Comparing Murray to the GOAT's first year as a starting QB in the NFL? Yeah...its relevant.

In addition, Brady got dropped into a Super Bowl roster and Murray took over the worst team in the NFL.

Brady started 25 games at Michigan BTW.

Please explain why it's relevant. The reason you pick a QB #1 overall and not in the sixth round is because you expect him to be better, faster.

Brady was dropped into a roster that went 5-11 the prior year. They were 5th in the old AFC East.

Also, that was NEARLY 20 YEARS AGO! Why would that experience be somehow relevant or reliable today. The 2001 Pats were in the middle of the road (11th OFF DVOA, 13th DEF DVOA) and very good on special teams. They had a fortunate run in the playoffs (three wins in one-score games) and they were off to the races.

I don't think that looking at Russell Wilson's rookie season is especially valueable, either. He was on a defensive team with a defensive head coach and an excellent defense. The 2011 Seahawks were a Top 10 defense, and Marshawn had gotten 1200+ yards and scored 12 rushing TDs the year before. All Russ had to do was NOT SCREW IT UP.

It's hard to find a good historical comp for Murray's situation. Jameis Winston and Matt Stafford are different players, but they seem the closest in terms of roster talent and some history to look back on. I'll have to take a closer look later and see what we can learn.

 

[Stout]

What games are you watching? He’s done that numerous times already. I was in Baltimore & saw it firsthand. He’ll only leave the pocket when no one is open & he has to. Not 100% sold on KK, but K1 is legit.

On Sunday I saw him refuse to step up into the pocket and spin/retreat directly into the rush, on numerous occasions. I get it, that he's a rook and rookies will make these mistakes, but he'll have to learn to be able to accept the pressure, step up into the pocket, and elongate the play in this way as much as he can through scrambling.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

What games are you watching? He’s done that numerous times already. I was in Baltimore & saw it firsthand. He’ll only leave the pocket when no one is open & he has to. Not 100% sold on KK, but K1 is legit.

Watch other QBs.

Standing in the pocket when a defender is a few yards away bearing down on you is a lot different than delivering a ball when you’re getting hit. Murray has struggled with the latter.

I’m not saying he won’t get better at it, but he’s looking to get out of the way these days. I started a thread that he does a good Jj Arrington impression a lot of times.

You can’t have your QBs doing that even though I get why he does.

 

[PACardsFan]

Watch other QBs.

Standing in the pocket when a defender is a few yards away bearing down on you is a lot different than delivering a ball when you’re getting hit. Murray has struggled with the latter.

I’m not saying he won’t get better at it, but he’s looking to get out of the way these days. I started a thread that he does a good Jj Arrington impression a lot of times.

You can’t have your QBs doing that even though I get why he does.

As I said earlier, there were numerous times in the Baltimore game when K1 was throwing the ball as he was being hit. That being said, why would that be what we most desire in our QB. Do we want a macho statue to sit in the pocket & get clobbered time and time again? Or someone who can still deliver the ball & have the athleticism to avoid a major collision? Look, there will be times when a hit is unavoidable, but those times have to be minimal at best.

 

[PACardsFan]

On Sunday I saw him refuse to step up into the pocket and spin/retreat directly into the rush, on numerous occasions. I get it, that he's a rook and rookies will make these mistakes, but he'll have to learn to be able to accept the pressure, step up into the pocket, and elongate the play in this way as much as he can through scrambling.

QB's like K1 & RW may take a different path in avoiding the rush to elongate a play. Different from your prototypical 6'5" statue who can ONLY step up in the pocket to avoid the rush. How many times has Wilson spun sideways to avoid our rush over the years & throw a 30 yarder that literally breaks our back in crunch time? We should be perfectly fine having a QB that's capable of that.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Time to burn it down, and bring back azprosports.com!

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

As I said earlier, there were numerous times in the Baltimore game when K1 was throwing the ball as he was being hit. That being said, why would that be what we most desire in our QB. Do we want a macho statue to sit in the pocket & get clobbered time and time again? Or someone who can still deliver the ball & have the athleticism to avoid a major collision? Look, there will be times when a hit is unavoidable, but those times have to be minimal at best.

I didn’t say that is what I most desire. I said that was one of my main concerns with him.
The ability to keep your eyes downfield and not look at the rush is a big asset to have.

Sure he may have made a couple throws while being hit. But that hasn’t been the norm.

I’ll always maintain a good QB has to be able to beat from the pocket.
Wilson has gotten better at it but it was always a knock of mine on him as it was tough for him in his earlier days.
Hopefully Murray will get better at it.

 

[Kai]

Maybe a lot of Oklahoma / UCLA fan or anti-fans here? Perhaps its just racism. Kylers black, and Rosen was white (and jewish). Maybe folks resent Rosen being replaced for those reasons. *shrug*

Kylers also Asian as well

 

[dscher]

As they say.. sometimes you have to just give credit to the guys on the other side of the ball. As much as Murray had his moments of looking extremely uncomfortable down the stretch of that game.. Carolina really didn't let the 4th quarter Murray come out.. and I think the league took notice and that's why we had a different Murray at the end of this game compared to the prior 2. Jmo

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Was going to say the same thing the Cards went all in when they hired Kliff and changed QB's. I think many people just find it hard to straddle the fence when the team did something like that.

My take was I would have picked defense but my thing is if you hire a coach, you should allow that coach to pursue their vision and we did that by letting Kliff change QB's. If this works out great, if it doesn't, Kliff will have no excuse and either will Keim.

The thing about that is, we have had some absolutely dreadful coaches/teams before, but we never were quite bad enough (or good enough depending on who you ask) to get the #1 pick. You could easily argue that last year was one of the most painful of all.

If you don't want some large scale changes after that....

 

[kerouac9]

The thing about that is, we have had some absolutely dreadful coaches/teams before, but we never were quite bad enough (or good enough depending on who you ask) to get the #1 pick. You could easily argue that last year was one of the most painful of all.

If you don't want some large scale changes after that....

You can have large-scale changes without having UNPRECEDENTED changes — which is what the Cards did and make it hard to predict what happens going forward.

 

[PACardsFan]

Kylers also Asian as well

Yes he is. Asians never get their due. Tiger Wood's is more Asian than anything, yet hardly ever is he considered an Asian golfer. In another 100 years, we'll finally all just be called "Americans".

 

[cardncubfan]

Yes he is. Asians never get their due. Tiger Wood's is more Asian than anything, yet hardly ever is he considered an Asian golfer. In another 100 years, we'll finally all just be called "Americans".

Hopefully sooner than that.

 

[TRW]

I don't know about polarizing or all of the controversy on the board. I only know that I have been a Cardinals fan for over 40 years and have seen the few ups and the many downs that this team has had through the years.

I will follow them, root for them and see what happens. I don't know how this recent incarnation will go, will KK turn into a solid HC or another 2 or 3 year tenure and then on to the next? I don't know if KM will be a true QBOF or not, I hope so. If not, then we continue to wait for that one to come along.

But, I am 66 years old today and don't know how many more years I have and my moribund, feckless franchise will be here long after I have gone. And to the end I will be a Cardinals fan. Why? I don't know but I am.

My friends, moan, groan, express your frustrations but don't sink into incivility and attack on your fellow fans. We are all better than that. It's only a game.

 

[gimpy]

Happy birthday TRW.

 

[PACardsFan]

Hopefully sooner than that.

As they say.. sometimes you have to just give credit to the guys on the other side of the ball. As much as Murray had his moments of looking extremely uncomfortable down the stretch of that game.. Carolina really didn't let the 4th quarter Murray come out.. and I think the league took notice and that's why we had a different Murray at the end of this game compared to the prior 2. Jmo

No doubt. Not every team has the ability to get to the QB with their front 4 like Carolina can. Seattle can, and that's why we again have a razor thin margin of error to beat them. We have to maintain our element of surprise to keep our OL from being overwhelmed. That's why the dink & dunk worked well for much of the game. We lured Carolina in & then had them beat long & missed the opportunities. I've harped on the drops, because so much strategy went into creating those opportunities. And again, we just don't have the overall talent to overcome missed opportunities. KK understands that our D is vulnerable & his offense has to have long, time consuming drives to keep our D off the field for as long as possible. We also need to keep working on our ground game. Unfortunately, I think KK has more confidence in completing 5 yard passes than running against stout lines like Carolina & Seattle.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not going to hold any grudges, but I take exception to out and out violation of forum rules and decorum, followed up by about 5 unwanted PMs from a poster and also a moderator reopening a CLOSED thread just to call me out.

Frankly, I'm about done posting here after this experience. We all have our opinions and think other opinions stink. Not a damn person on here is right all of the time. I know I'm wrong often, because we dont have access to all of the information so we are all often stuck with opinions that are flawed from the start.

But I take extraordinary exception to being called out publicly in a situation where everyone's emotions are running high.

Your presence would be missed.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

No doubt. Not every team has the ability to get to the QB with their front 4 like Carolina can. Seattle can, and that's why we again have a razor thin margin of error to beat them. We have to maintain our element of surprise to keep our OL from being overwhelmed. That's why the dink & dunk worked well for much of the game. We lured Carolina in & then had them beat long & missed the opportunities. I've harped on the drops, because so much strategy went into creating those opportunities. And again, we just don't have the overall talent to overcome missed opportunities. KK understands that our D is vulnerable & his offense has to have long, time consuming drives to keep our D off the field for as long as possible. We also need to keep working on our ground game. Unfortunately, I think KK has more confidence in completing 5 yard passes than running against stout lines like Carolina & Seattle.

Honestly PA, the whiners and complainers do have some valid points about K1 and K2's performance through the first three games. It's nothing that we didn't expect however.

My point this morning is that you and I (and a few others) can type and type and type, but they (the complainers) won't be convinced, because they don't want to be convinced. Only a complete, 60-minute performance on offense will send them scuttling back into the shadows.

Take heart sir, because you and I both know there are 100 glorious victories on the horizon. As long as we have a functioning GM who's able to put complementary players around Murray, it's only a matter time until K1 and the Cardinals achieve greatness.