Poll: Is Eric Bledsoe a #1 player on a championship team

[Cheesebeef]

If you evaluate the Len pick independent of "McDonough's history," it looks like a bad pick. I don't give the Len pick bonus points because McDonough made it. Viewed on its own merits, it sure looks like a bad pick right now.



Yes, that's why I referred to trading Gortat for a pick.



That's a straw-man argument. I wasn't suggesting that the Suns could have gotten an unprotected pick. But maybe they could have gotten a marginal prospect thrown in, or a second-round pick, or something. I do know that Gortat's trade value was much more likely to go up than down over the next few months.

Really? Why? His trade value has consistently gone down since Nash left town, and the only team that would likely have made a trade involving a 1st rounder in this draft would have been someone at the top ofo the standings, which would likely have netted us maybe a pick in the high 20s, as opposed to something in the teens. And are you forgetting that Gortat is also going to be a FA at the end of the season? If you think anyone at midseason was going to trade a first round
pick, a prospect (which would only hurt our cap flexibility moving forward) and another pick for an okay rent-a-center for two months, you're as out to lunch with that thought as you were that people only liked the trade because they expected to get something out of Okafor.

Man...i get banging on McD for the Len pick, but what a load you're shoveling with the rest of this.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I'm not sure that's true. I would have said that this board liked the trade when they thought getting rid of Gortat improved our tanking odds. Okafor was (and still is) just icing on the cake for most here IMO. I guess we could ask for a show of hands.

Steve

This. No way we get significantly more for Gortat than what we got.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Listened to Bickley today on the radio. It's obvious he had read this thread. So which one of you is Bickley? Come on now the game is up.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I would change my vote on this poll today. I would say yes, he can be the best player on a championship team.

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I would change my vote on this poll today. I would say yes, he can be the best player on a championship team.

Steve

Still think it's way too early to make that claim. He's been much better than advertised, and if he keeps it up all year, all the better. I still think he'll never be a Lebron/Kobe/Duncan/Shaq/MJ/Hakeem talent, you know, the best players on championship teams. That said, he could be a good 2, great 3.

Giving him a max deal is looking less and less risky.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Still think it's way too early to make that claim. He's been much better than advertised, and if he keeps it up all year, all the better. I still think he'll never be a Lebron/Kobe/Duncan/Shaq/MJ/Hakeem talent, you know, the best players on championship teams. That said, he could be a good 2, great 3.

Giving him a max deal is looking less and less risky.

I think you just came up with the complete list of recent players he'll never match up to. I do think he can become at least as impactful as Harden and I think James is good enough to lead the right players to a title. If Bledsoe were tearing it up right now because he was on a hot shooting streak, I'd call it "way too early" to judge also. But he's not on a streak. His defense and his ability to penetrate and dish shouldn't be streaky and they are his bread and butter.

I think he's capable of being the best defensive guard in the league and a top 5, maybe top 10 player on offense. That adds up to special in my book. Occasionally, teams will study and take away moves from players like Bledsoe so yeah, it isn't carved in stone but I sure like his chances of becoming not just good but great. IOW, I may ultimately be proved wrong on Eric but I feel pretty comfortable out on this limb.

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I think you just came up with the complete list of recent players he'll never match up to. I do think he can become at least as impactful as Harden and I think James is good enough to lead the right players to a title. If Bledsoe were tearing it up right now because he was on a hot shooting streak, I'd call it "way too early" to judge also. But he's not on a streak. His defense and his ability to penetrate and dish shouldn't be streaky and they are his bread and butter.

I think he's capable of being the best defensive guard in the league and a top 5, maybe top 10 player on offense. That adds up to special in my book. Occasionally, teams will study and take away moves from players like Bledsoe so yeah, it isn't carved in stone but I sure like his chances of becoming not just good but great. IOW, I may ultimately be proved wrong on Eric but I feel pretty comfortable out on this limb.

Steve

Fair enough. I think guys like Bledsoe or Harden will always need at least 1, more likely 2 players nearly at their level to have any chance, so I don't see Bledsoe as a #1 on a championship team.

Hope he proves me wrong.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Fair enough. I think guys like Bledsoe or Harden will always need at least 1, more likely 2 players nearly at their level to have any chance, so I don't see Bledsoe as a #1 on a championship team.

Hope he proves me wrong.

Actually, we probably aren't that far apart. I think Lebron is good enough to lead a solid team to a championship. Neither Bledsoe nor Harden have that ability. Each of them would need to be surrounded by the right pieces (like a Chicago or Indiana kind of lineup) which would almost definitely include at least one more player that was as good or almost as good as them. IMO though, Lebron is the only player in today's NBA that could take an average team to the finals.

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Actually, we probably aren't that far apart. I think Lebron is good enough to lead a solid team to a championship. Neither Bledsoe nor Harden have that ability. Each of them would need to be surrounded by the right pieces (like a Chicago or Indiana kind of lineup) which would almost definitely include at least one more player that was as good or almost as good as them. IMO though, Lebron is the only player in today's NBA that could take an average team to the finals.

Steve

Yep. There's Lebron, then everyone else. Durant is probably the 2nd best player in basketball, but we saw what he could do without Westbrook/Harden. CP, no way, Melo, no way.

 

[Suns_fan69]

2009 Dwight did...

 

[Phrazbit]

2009 Dwight did...

Yeah, but I think that had more to do with how awful the East was than how dominant Dwight was. KG hurt his knee before the playoffs and Boston nearly beat that Magic team anyway, then the Magic played LeBron and his one horse show, the Magic got insanely hot from 3, won the series... then predictably cooled off and got butchered in the finals. That really ticked me off too. Orlando's run was so obviously flukey, and that Cavs team really matched up well with the Lakers. Would have loved to see Kobe get denied a title by the lowly Cavs.

 

[sunsfan88]

He needs to stop getting tunnel vision in the 4th QTR.

 

[BC867]

He needs to stop getting tunnel vision in the 4th QTR.

As I alluded to in the Dilemma thread, right now Eric is all we have in the 4th quarter. Which is a major step up from last season.

Which is why our priority for next season should be an experienced clutch player to join him, whether by trade or free agency.

As opposed to a rookie draft pick to fill that role.

 

[AzStevenCal]

As I alluded to in the Dilemma thread, right now Eric is all we have in the 4th quarter. Which is a major step up from last season.

Which is why our priority for next season should be an experienced clutch player to join him, whether by trade or free agency.

As opposed to a rookie draft pick to fill that role.

Losing Dragic for that 4th quarter really hurt us. Does anyone really think we lose that game the way he was starting to heat up? Everything changed when he went down. Keep in mind that Bledsoe is going full speed from the moment he steps on the court and he's more used to sitting on the bench than running the show. Anyway, put Goran out there with Eric in crunch time and everything gets a lot easier.

Steve

 

[Dr. Jones]

That seems a bit harsh. Are you answering his question believing he wants to know whether Bledsoe has reached that championship level or are you projecting based on what you've seen so far? I'd say the question is laughable if you view him through his time as a Clipper but it's not that much of a stretch if you judge him on his brief time in Phoenix.

Steve

The kid is great, and I have hope for the future, but man....... Do you really think he has a shot to be DRose, Westbrook, Parker or Paul? And further down, Irving, or even Williams?

Cause those are the only 5 to 6 PG's with the credentials to be considered #1 player on a Championship team at the PG position.

At SG he isn't even a top 10 SG in the league let alone a #1 player.

The question seems VERY easy to me.

Also..... Other than Nash, can we name a PG in the last 20 years who played 4 to 5 seasons before they became "#1 player for a championship team" player? Usually those kids are identified very quickly. This isn't the NFL where a talent like Aaron Rodgers will sit on the bench for 3 to 4 years then become an MVP candidate.

So in short....... I don't think it is even close. He could be a #3 on a Championship team. But not a #1.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The kid is great, and I have hope for the future, but man....... Do you really think he has a shot to be DRose, Westbrook, Parker or Paul? And further down, Irving, or even Williams?

Cause those are the only 5 to 6 PG's with the credentials to be considered #1 player on a Championship team at the PG position.

At SG he isn't even a top 10 SG in the league let alone a #1 player.

The question seems VERY easy to me.

Also..... Other than Nash, can we name a PG in the last 20 years who played 4 to 5 seasons before they became "#1 player for a championship team" player? Usually those kids are identified very quickly. This isn't the NFL where a talent like Aaron Rodgers will sit on the bench for 3 to 4 years then become an MVP candidate.

So in short....... I don't think it is even close. He could be a #3 on a Championship team. But not a #1.

Absolutely. In fact, I'd take him over Williams right now. He may never match Parker or Kyrie on offense but he more than makes up for it defensively IMO. My biggest concern has to do with how he'll respond when they try to take away his bread and butter.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

Also..... Other than Nash, can we name a PG in the last 20 years who played 4 to 5 seasons before they became "#1 player for a championship team" player? Usually those kids are identified very quickly. This isn't the NFL where a talent like Aaron Rodgers will sit on the bench for 3 to 4 years then become an MVP candidate.

I don't think he's #1 either but this a very, very poor argument. He played behind the best PG in the NBA. Behind a HOFer.

Was he supposed to beat out Chris Paul for the starting PG spot to prove that he can be a #1 player on a championship team?

Does that mean that anyone who isn't better than Chris Paul isn't a #1 player? So I guess we can rule out Rose, Westbrook, Parker etc as #1 players then.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I don't think he's #1 either but this a very, very poor argument. He played behind the best PG in the NBA. Behind a HOFer.

Was he supposed to beat out Chris Paul for the starting PG spot to prove that he can be a #1 player on a championship team?

Does that mean that anyone who isn't better than Chris Paul isn't a #1 player? So I guess we can rule out Rose, Westbrook, Parker etc as #1 players then.

Of course not.... But if the standard is #1 player on a Championship team I think it is fair to compare him to the player above him on the depth chart. Especially when he is a #1 PG on a championship caliber team. Ala Farve to Rodgers. Rodgers first full season was a revelation. His talent was immense and we all saw it immediately.

Just like we saw Pauls talent immediately. And Irving's, and Rose's, etc....

 

[Dr. Jones]

Absolutely. In fact, I'd take him over Williams right now. He may never match Parker or Kyrie on offense but he more than makes up for it defensively IMO. My biggest concern has to do with how he'll respond when they try to take away his bread and butter.

Steve

Well, if you think Bledsoe will be on par with Irving, Westbrook, Paul or DRose, then I might be inclined to think you are committing the #1 homer team crime. Over-valuing your own teams players.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Well, if you think Bledsoe will be on par with Irving, Westbrook, Paul or DRose, then I might be inclined to think you are committing the #1 homer team crime. Over-valuing your own teams players.

You could be right. I'm not trying to overvalue Bledsoe and I reserve the right to change my mind but I've been very impressed by him 8 games into the season.

Steve

 

[Dr. Jones]

You could be right. I'm not trying to overvalue Bledsoe and I reserve the right to change my mind but I've been very impressed by him 8 games into the season.

Steve

I know..... Just remember. That's less than 10% of the season. It's a marathon brother.

 

[elindholm]

I know..... Just remember. That's less than 10% of the season.

Even more to the point, it's less than 10% of one season. Leading a team to a championship takes, for most players that do it, a good share of their careers. This little eight-game run is so tiny in comparison as to have no predictive value at all.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Even more to the point, it's less than 10% of one season. Leading a team to a championship takes, for most players that do it, a good share of their careers. This little eight-game run is so tiny in comparison as to have no predictive value at all.

While I agree with this, isn't this the entire point of this poll/thread? He's asking us to predict whether Bledsoe can be a number one on a championship team. Based on what little we've seen, I say yes. But you're right, after 8 games, we're not really predicting - we're simply guessing.

Steve

 

[BC867]

While I agree with this, isn't this the entire point of this poll/thread? He's asking us to predict whether Bledsoe can be a number one on a championship team. Based on what little we've seen, I say yes. But you're right, after 8 games, we're not really predicting - we're simply guessing.

Steve

I found myself thinking . . . could KJ have been number 1 on a championship team? Could Steve Nash?

Can any Guard be number 1?

Magic had Kareem and a lot more. Cousy has Russell and a lot more.

Michael and the Big O (once) probably came the closest to the category of a Guard being number 1. And they weren't small.

It may be the situation -- history -- that answers the question better than the player.

 

[elindholm]

Based on what little we've seen, I say yes. But you're right, after 8 games, we're not really predicting - we're simply guessing.

Well, right, but given how few players in the world can be the #1 guy on a championship team, the burden of proof -- or even of educated guesswork -- should be with the player to make the case that he's in that class. It's like "guessing" that a lottery ticket is a jackpot winner after discovering that the first number is a match. Sure, it's a tiny step in the right direction, but the odds are still very remote.