Positions lacking on this team.

AZCB34

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Re: IMO

Originally posted by slanidrac16
as much as I love Fitzgerald, I think it would be best to trade down and pick up an additional 2nd round pick.

That being done would allow us to get a top rated wr that DG needs in the first round, a cb in the 2nd round and a play making rb with the other 2nd round pick.

You would have to trade out of the top 10 in order to get the extra 2nd rounder and thus you would be trading out of the 9 blue-chip gaggle of Green/Graves making. While I like the idea of getting an extra pick, I am not sure I want to trade down that far.
 
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vikesfan

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Re: questions for vikesfan...

Originally posted by Wildman©
I'm curious: What method(s) did you use for determining these position needs?

Are you an ex- FOOTBALL coach or a super FOOTBALL fan with experience in position grading?

Have you reviewed Cardinal game tapes to determine poor performance(s)?

Please enlighten me and others on this board as to why your opinions should carry weight... What are your qualifications?

Seriously...

For the record... several members of this board may remember that I asked the same question to Ed B a couple of years ago... no malice or disrespect was intended then as none is intended now...

Dude are you kidding me? This is a message board for fan ideas. Look at the responses my post generated. Some agree with me some don't. Others bring up interesting points such as not being able to be strong at every position in today's nfl etc.

I don't think these people are watching Cardinal films etc. We are not GMs on here. If we were we wouldn't be here.


If you are asking why you should take what I say seriously judge what I say for itself. Does it make sense or not.


I mean said draft Suggs. Graves and his scouts spent hours watching film etc and took Pace instead. Who was right.

I think the stuff I say makes sense. I am not a GM but I have spent a lot of time on football. That doesn't mean anything. I make mistakes. I try and build what I say from logic and facts. I have actually used info from the fans here since I am new to the Cards. I intuitively recognize patterns that work or don't work. I am fairly intelligent. Again just look at the things I say. And others say. See what makes sense. See what comes to pass who was right? If you just want to dismiss everything I say fine. When someone proves me wrong I apologize and change what I have been saying.

I am no different then any other poster here. Judge me on my track record.
 

BACH

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Re: Re: IMO

Originally posted by AZCB34
You would have to trade out of the top 10 in order to get the extra 2nd rounder and thus you would be trading out of the 9 blue-chip gaggle of Green/Graves making. While I like the idea of getting an extra pick, I am not sure I want to trade down that far.

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm

Nope.... Trading down to #5 would get us an extra 2nd rounder according to the value chart.
 

Duckjake

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If there is an underrated position on this team, it's OLB. Ray Thompson, Levar Fisher, LeVar Woods, and #54 Gerald Hayes will play well in an attacking system.

I would love to see this. For the past few years our LB's have not been making plays to turn games. Few sacks, interceptions or forced fumbles. Ray Lewis had more int's last season than the Cards LB's have had in the last 5 years combined.

I have to attribute this to the prior coaching staff for now because of the poor performance by the defense for their entire tenure in Arizona and that the coaches probably didn't put the LB's into position to make those kinds of plays.
 

RedStorm

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Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
It cracks me up that you people think Clarett is going to be a bust.I still don't know what you can be basing that on.Definitely not by his on field performance.Also,how does someone
"look" injury prone.Does Jamal Lewis look injury prone? The guy is rock solid but has blown out 2 knees.It'd be better if people said they WANT Clarett to be a bust.The problem is that he's going to be a star.

Maybe maturity??? He was not able to play within the rules in college and got himself in trouble. That is a risk when you are going to be writing a paycheck. He has talent but there is a big risk IMO.
 

RedStorm

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Originally posted by az1965
:thumbup:

Agree on most, especially Adrian Wilson. Me also think Wendall Bryant is a bust.

I think it is hard to say Bryant or any DL/DE on this team is a bust due to the influence of Mean Joe Greene. They may all be close to being busts but I would like to have the input of Denny and Crew before we use that label. IMO, I think Mean Joe was the one worst influence we had on the DL.


On Wilson???? I hope he works out as CB.
 

Pariah

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Re: Re: questions for vikesfan...

Originally posted by vikesfan
I am no different then any other poster here.
That's not true. You, by your own admission, have only watched one Cardinals game. You've been a "fan" of the Cardinals since December. You are a fan of the Vikings first.

Those things make you unique on this board. So, when you evaluate our players and our drafts and our needs, forgive me if I don't hold your opinion in the same esteem that I would a Cardinals' fan's.
 
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vikesfan

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Re: Re: Re: questions for vikesfan...

Originally posted by Pariah
That's not true. You, by your own admission, have only watched one Cardinals game. You've been a "fan" of the Cardinals since December. You are a fan of the Vikings first.

Those things make you unique on this board. So, when you evaluate our players and our drafts and our needs, forgive me if I don't hold your opinion in the same esteem that I would a Cardinals' fan's.

When we all talk about the draft we are in same position as I am with respect to the Cards.

I can come to a team and analyze it. I was starting to look at OAK and WAS and ARI cause of the possible DG hire. I mean there are fans of the team who know nothing about football and make ludicrous comments. At least I am coming from it from a reasonable perspective.

I understand your doubts. But I have done research. Just judge me by what I say if it is correct or not. I am not just talking out of my @$$ in my positions I have incorporated what you Cards fans have said about the players. I have looked at internet information. And I will be reading the magazines soon. And yes finally I will see every game this year they play.

I am a quick study I look at patterns that apply across the NFL. One thing that makes it hard to get a feel on the Cards is that fan opinion is so mixed. One guy thinks the OLBs are great another guy thinks they suck. I check stats on players etc. I think I have done a decent job so far on catching up to what this team is like. I don't think I am all that off the mark. I might have undergraded Shelton it seems like a lot of people swear by him so I upgraded him somewhat. There was some negative analysis that I read about him so I still have some doubts. We'll see but I don't think LT is a huge need based on what the fans said here now.


I am sure there might be 1 or 2 Cards fan on here who you would probably disagree with more on their perspectives on the team then with mine.


If you went to a Vikes forum
98% of Vikings fans would give you a completely different take on DG then I and azjam have. In fact I was shocked azjam was pro-DG. The thing is I can marshall facts to support what I say about him and the DG-Haters can't. And then you can make your own call as to who is right about him as coach and GM.
 
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LVCARDFREAK

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Re: Re: Re: Re: questions for vikesfan...

Originally posted by vikesfan
When we all talk about the draft we are in same position as I am with respect to the Cards.

I can come to a team and analyze it. I was starting to look at OAK and WAS and ARI cause of the possible DG hire. I mean there are fans of the team who know nothing about football and make ludicrous comments. At least I am coming from it from a reasonable perspective.

I understand your doubts. But I have done research. Just judge me by what I say if it is correct or not. I am not just talking out of my @$$ in my positions I have incorporated what you Cards fans have said about the players. I have looked at internet information. And I will be reading the magazines soon. And yes finally I will see every game this year they play.

I am a quick study I look at patterns that apply across the NFL. One thing that makes it hard to get a feel on the Cards is that fan opinion is so mixed. One guy thinks the OLBs are great another guy thinks they suck. I check stats on players etc. I think I have done a decent job so far on catching up to what this team is like. I don't think I am all that off the mark. I might have undergraded Shelton it seems like a lot of people swear by him so I upgraded him somewhat. There was some negative analysis that I read about him so I still have some doubts. We'll see but I don't think LT is a huge need based on what the fans said here now.


I am sure there might be 1 or 2 Cards fan on here who you would probably disagree with more on their perspectives on the team then with mine.


If you went to a Vikes forum
98% of Vikings fans would give you a completely different take on DG then I and azjam have. In fact I was shocked azjam was pro-DG. The thing is I can marshall facts to support what I say about him and the DG-Haters can't. And then you can make your own call as to who is right about him as coach and GM.


Thats not true.

You have said numerous times you think Pace and Johnson are busts but by your own admission have not seent hem play. How do really expect anyone to take that seriously?

I can find all kinds of stats to back up my position, but unless you watch a kid play you got no idea.

I have no problem with your 'knowledge' of the Vikes or other teams for that matter but whenit comes to the Cards your way off base lots of times.

You cant just 'become' a Cards fan. You have to be here to experience all the pain and agony this team, its coaches, its front office, and the decisions it makes. And furthermore you have to truly care!

Hell I watch my little nephew run around and destroy things, break vases, glasses et and say "wow that sucks" but when its said and done I go home and dont have to deal with it. Kinda the same thing here.

The Cards are our ugly, red-headed, freckle-faced kid, that we love!

Besides all that, just trying watching the players. You wont cant get how a guy does in certain situations by stats.

Did you see B.Johnsons phenomenal over-the-shoulder, twisting long bomb catch he made this year?

Did you see Wendell Bryant come out of the blocks this year and really play well until about weak 5. Pressuring the QB, getting tackles, reaking havoc?

Did you see Renaldo Hill's emergence as probably our best CB and ball hawk?

Did you see M. Shipp have back to back 140+ yard games?

Did you see Quan's breakout game against Detroit when no one had any idea who the hell he was and he torched the Lions secondary for 10 catches 217 yards and 2 td?

See not everything on this team is bad, but you do have to watch some of the 'lesser known' players actually play to get a guage on how bad or good they are!
 
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Wildman©

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originally posted by vikesfan

Dude are you kidding me? This is a message board for fan ideas. Look at the responses my post generated. Some agree with me some don't. Others bring up interesting points such as not being able to be strong at every position in today's nfl etc.

I don't think these people are watching Cardinal films etc. We are not GMs on here. If we were we wouldn't be here.

If you are asking why you should take what I say seriously judge what I say for itself. Does it make sense or not.

I mean said draft Suggs. Graves and his scouts spent hours watching film etc and took Pace instead. Who was right.

I think the stuff I say makes sense. I am not a GM but I have spent a lot of time on football. That doesn't mean anything. I make mistakes. I try and build what I say from logic and facts. I have actually used info from the fans here since I am new to the Cards. I intuitively recognize patterns that work or don't work. I am fairly intelligent. Again just look at the things I say. And others say. See what makes sense. See what comes to pass who was right? If you just want to dismiss everything I say fine. When someone proves me wrong I apologize and change what I have been saying.

I am no different then any other poster here. Judge me on my track record.


No, I was not kidding. Just look at the responses my question to you generated.
 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: questions for vikesfan...

Originally posted by vikesfan
There was some negative analysis that I read about him so I still have some doubts.

Wait, aren't you the "just because it's printed doesn't make it the truth" guy.

Like with Green, there clearly was a media conspiracy against LJ Shelton.
 
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vikesfan

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: questions for vikesfan...

Originally posted by RLakin
Wait, aren't you the "just because it's printed doesn't make it the truth" guy.

Like with Green, there clearly was a media conspiracy against LJ Shelton.

Well now you are comparing apples to oranges. This was specific technical analysis of play not off field stuff. And when the people here disagreed with what I read - what did I do? I dropped what I read and went with what the people who saw him play said. I gave that more weight.

Soon I will read more about him from sources I respect such as TSN and then I will watch him play.
 

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