Potential defensive coordinators - my suggestions

[daves]

Oy Dave, tell me you don’t want want bettcher.

I just don't like fake news. But as in most things - people make up their minds and won't be swayed by facts.

Bettcher's defenses in AZ were in the top 6 all three years based on yards. As Cheesebeef points out, they went down from 14th to 19th to 23rd in points over the same span. That is definitely not good - but i've looked up the average defensive starting field position for those three years previously, and it gets much worse every year, given the ineptitude of the offense under Stanton and Gabbert. I'm not sure whether the other team's defensive scores are lumped into the Cardinals' opponent scores when calculating the Cardinals' defensive scoring rankings, but if so, that too would push the Cards defensive scoring rankings down.

Definitely not a huge cheerleader for Bettcher, but he made Bucannon a useful player. Just don't get the hate for him, especially given the weakness of some of the other names being proposed for DC. For instance....

Pagano, whose defenses in Indianapolis were ranked 26, 20, 11, 26, 30, and 30. Sure his one year as Ravens DC (2011), they were ranked 3rd... but they were ranked 3rd in 2008, 2009, and 2010 as well.

...dbs

 

[iLLmatiC]

Yes, he is.

Who do you want at #1 so far?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I just don't like fake news. But as in most things - people make up their minds and won't be swayed by facts.

...dbs

Bettcher wasn’t the worst in the world, but he certainly wasn’t good.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I just don't like fake news. But as in most things - people make up their minds and won't be swayed by facts.

Bettcher's defenses in AZ were in the top 6 all three years based on yards. As Cheesebeef points out, they went down from 14th to 19th to 23rd in points over the same span. That is definitely not good - but i've looked up the average defensive starting field position for those three years previously, and it gets much worse every year, given the ineptitude of the offense under Stanton and Gabbert. I'm not sure whether the other team's defensive scores are lumped into the Cardinals' opponent scores when calculating the Cardinals' defensive scoring rankings, but if so, that too would push the Cards defensive scoring rankings down.

Definitely not a huge cheerleader for Bettcher, but he made Bucannon a useful player. Just don't get the hate for him, especially given the weakness of some of the other names being proposed for DC. For instance....

Pagano, whose defenses in Indianapolis were ranked 26, 20, 11, 26, 30, and 30. Sure his one year as Ravens DC (2011), they were ranked 3rd... but they were ranked 3rd in 2008, 2009, and 2010 as well.

...dbs

Bettcher and the words 'halftime adjustments" do not mix

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I am hoping Marvin Lewis

 

[daves]

Bettcher wasn’t the worst in the world, but he certainly wasn’t good.

Hah, now it's going to look as though i AM cheerleading for Bettcher. Just looking up more stats... according to Football Outsiders, Bettcher's defenses were ranked 4th, 3rd, and 3rd in DVOA. Pretty sure that takes into account the strength of opponents' offenses and things like average starting defensive field position, and properly excludes things like opponents' defensive scores.

...dbs

 

[Cheesebeef]

I just don't like fake news. But as in most things - people make up their minds and won't be swayed by facts.

FACT is Bettcher was much ballyhooed going into NY and did next to nothing and is apparently getting fired after 1 year. When the team that just hired you fires your ass after one season, that's the definition of failure Dave. That's not fake news.

Is Bettcher the worst thing since sliced bread? No. Far from it. I think he's a mediocre DC who had a TON of talent to play around with, yet saw our PPG given up go up every year he was here.

I just think it's a terrible idea to pair a complete novice HC at the NFL level with previously mediocre DC who's got zero head coaching experience.

 

[SunsTzu]

I am hoping Marvin Lewis

Me too, but the lack of talk about him makes me question if he's a realistic option.

 

[The Kraken]

Marvin Lewis is a 43 DC...not a 34.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Marvin Lewis is a 43 DC...not a 34.

Marvin coached a 3-4 in Baltimore. He has the ability to coach both and he has a ton of knowledge. I think our experience with a head coach defensive guru leader of men that didn't know basics like when to throw a challenge flag has made us overthink this.

 

[daves]

apparently getting fired

Really? I've been searching for evidence of this claim but all i found are this article that says Shurmur "will attempt to retain Bettcher", and these two from Sports Illustrated last January and August that show that nationally, the perception of Bettcher is pretty positive:

Under Bettcher, Arizona has the NFL’s third-ranked defense (in terms of yardage) from 2015-17, behind only Denver and Seattle. They’re second only to Carolina against the run. They’re also third in takeaways, ninth in sacks and fifth in percentage of drives that go three-and-out. The defense has performed the same as, if not better than, it did under Bettcher’s predecessor, Todd Bowles

The 40-year-old, who Andy Benoit pegged as a defensive Sean McVay type last winter, is from an intriguing coaching tree that has already spawned Todd Bowles in New York. He was, for the time, imaginative with a diverse set of talents in Arizona

Fake news?

...dbs

 

[azsouthendzone]

I hated Gregg Williams when he coached the Sainst and Rama. He is ruthless and his defenses crushed many of our QBs. But if he was our DC I would love him to death. Our playmakers with his attitude could be a nasty mix.

 

[Hypothesis]

FACT is Bettcher was much ballyhooed going into NY and did next to nothing and is apparently getting fired after 1 year. When the team that just hired you fires your ass after one season, that's the definition of failure Dave. That's not fake news.

Is Bettcher the worst thing since sliced bread? No. Far from it. I think he's a mediocre DC who had a TON of talent to play around with, yet saw our PPG given up go up every year he was here.

I just think it's a terrible idea to pair a complete novice HC at the NFL level with previously mediocre DC who's got zero head coaching experience.

Where is all this talk coming from? Been seeing it all over this board but can't find any sources.

 

[The Kraken]

Marvin coached a 3-4 in Baltimore. He has the ability to coach both and he has a ton of knowledge. I think our experience with a head coach defensive guru leader of men that didn't know basics like when to throw a challenge flag has made us overthink this.

Sorry, but it was clearly a 43...Ray Lewis was a MIKE...

https://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2010/4/9/1412079/football-101-the-ravens-hybrid

This was the only link I could find mentioning it...

Additionally, Lewis ran a 43 in Washington.

 

[Hypothesis]

Marvin Lewis is a 43 DC...not a 34.

Marvin Lewis has coached both and ran a hybrid 34 defense in Baltimore.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Sorry, but it was clearly a 43...Ray Lewis was a MIKE...

https://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2010/4/9/1412079/football-101-the-ravens-hybrid

This was the only link I could find mentioning it...

Additionally, Lewis ran a 43 in Washington.

Why do you gotta bring facts into this? After listening to national media I didn't realize facts were necessary when discussing things like this

 

[The Kraken]

Marvin Lewis has coached both and ran a hybrid 34 defense in Baltimore.

I am sorry but you are mistaken...The Ravens went to a 34 hybrid when Mike Nolan took over as DC after Marvin Lewis went to the Bengals.

 

[The Kraken]

Why do you gotta bring facts into this? After listening to national media I didn't realize facts were necessary when discussing things like this

No worries! I hope we just find someone who maximizes our talent!

 

[Hypothesis]

I am sorry but you are mistaken...The Ravens went to a 34 hybrid when Mike Nolan took over as DC after Marvin Lewis went to the Bengals.

Lewis ran a 34 defense in Baltimore in 96 as his base. They effectively switched to a 43 base in 97 and 98 due to Jerry Jones stealing one of their primary FA targets at LB. But while on paper they were a 43 team, Lewis indeed did run varying fronts as adjustments and blitz packages that was more of a 34 hybrid. He incorporated much of what he learned as a LB coach in Pittsburgh for 4 years and used this hybrid look throughout his time as DC in Baltimore. Go back and watch the film, you will quite often find Siragusa lined up as NT with 2 DE's and 4 LB's.

You are right however in that Lewis primarily used the 43 due to personnel but he is well versed in the 34.

 

[Gandhi]

I would not disapprove it one bit if they went with Pagano, but I just think Nolan’s experience speaks a lot of volume. He has been coaching in the NFL forever, and he has been a defensive coordinator for multiple teams. He has seen everything, including on the field, and everywhere he has been very well-liked and respected among both his colleagues and his players. Some say he is too old, but do you even know that Wade Phillips is more than ten years older? That Romeo Crennel is almost ten years older? That Dean Pees is almost ten years older? That Todd Bowles is only four years younger? That Don Martindale is only four years younger? Those are some of the best defensive coordinators in the NFL. It does, however, annoys me that Nolan changes jobs so often.

Also, while some of his numbers are not great, he has improved defenses most places he has been, and it shows up in both the tape and the numbers.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I just don't like fake news. But as in most things - people make up their minds and won't be swayed by facts.

Bettcher's defenses in AZ were in the top 6 all three years based on yards. As Cheesebeef points out, they went down from 14th to 19th to 23rd in points over the same span. That is definitely not good - but i've looked up the average defensive starting field position for those three years previously, and it gets much worse every year, given the ineptitude of the offense under Stanton and Gabbert. I'm not sure whether the other team's defensive scores are lumped into the Cardinals' opponent scores when calculating the Cardinals' defensive scoring rankings, but if so, that too would push the Cards defensive scoring rankings down.

Definitely not a huge cheerleader for Bettcher, but he made Bucannon a useful player. Just don't get the hate for him, especially given the weakness of some of the other names being proposed for DC. For instance....

Pagano, whose defenses in Indianapolis were ranked 26, 20, 11, 26, 30, and 30. Sure his one year as Ravens DC (2011), they were ranked 3rd... but they were ranked 3rd in 2008, 2009, and 2010 as well.

...dbs

Yes, they are.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Bettcher and the words 'halftime adjustments" do not mix

Bowles said that it was Bettcher who was in charge of half-time adjustments when he was D-C.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I hated Gregg Williams when he coached the Sainst and Rama. He is ruthless and his defenses crushed many of our QBs. But if he was our DC I would love him to death. Our playmakers with his attitude could be a nasty mix.

He's a 4-3 Coach.

 

[Veer]

Can't fault Bettcher for the mess in NY. Their defense was worst in the league before him and it showed again this season. They only brought in fringe guys like Mauro and Martin to run Bettcher's 3-4 scheme, while investing their first two draft picks in Barkley and a powerful guard. In FA they also went hard after OL.

Bettcher was good fit for our current personnel. Most of them played well under him. The holes we had at that time are basically still the same, yet we were easily a top 10 defense and fun to watch. If the Giants let him go, I wouldn't mind him if his pride allows it.

 

[Buckybird]

Vance Joseph interviewing in Zona as DC today