Prediction Time: Cardinals vs. 49ers

[Redsz]

I mean we have two pro bowl corners lining up against Boldin and Fitz.

Walt Harris has done nothing to prove that he can shut down our elite wide outs.

Also, Nate Clements was also a Pro Bowler with Buffalo in the 4-3. Not with SF in the 3-4.

Your defensive personnel aren't nearly as good as Buffalo's have been over the years. So we will see how well he fares without a pass rush or help over the top from a good saftey.

And the whole Offensive line bit is funny, are you basing this on what you saw in pre-season?

The OL has improved out of sight from last year. In three years under Green, the pre-season was a good indicator of what to expect from the line.

So far this year Matt hasn't been sacked once and we are dishing out 4.8 YPC. I don't think we will see that in the regular season. But they have definatley improved.

 

[PJ1]

SF 34
AZ 23

No pass rush spells our doom.

 

[Skkorpion]

i will leave this forum once i get a response from nashman. hopefully i didn't scare him away.

No need to leave. Your team support is well reasoned.

 

[az1965]

Even with the bend-not-break defense, I think we can hold off the 9ers with our potent offense as long as we don't turnover and commit drive killing penalties at the worst possible moments.

 

[Snakester]

Cards 31-24

 

[The Dude]

Walt Harris has done nothing to prove that he can shut down our elite wide outs.

Also, Nate Clements was also a Pro Bowler with Buffalo in the 4-3. Not with SF in the 3-4.

Your defensive personnel aren't nearly as good as Buffalo's have been over the years. So we will see how well he fares without a pass rush or help over the top from a good safety.



The OL has improved out of sight from last year. In three years under Green, the pre-season was a good indicator of what to expect from the line.

So far this year Matt hasn't been sacked once and we are dishing out 4.8 YPC. I don't think we will see that in the regular season. But they have definatley improved.

As a cornerback coverage assignment from a 4-3 and 3-4 don't really change at all (don't know where u came up with that piece of information, maybe you were thinking safeties?) its just the language so Clements should have the same type of productivity. Sure buffalo has had some better personnel but they suffered huge losses in FA and there defensive squad is in shambles. We have one of the top 3 deep cornerback units. Harris and Clements who are both PB's and Spencer who is a terrific option in the nickel slot there is a lot to look forward too. Regarding the Offensive Line,what you saw in the pre-season is not likely going to happen in the regular season. Teams aren't going to show there blitz packages or anything remotely close to what they will during the regular season. So your offensive line did a good job protecting Leinart from B-A-S-I-C rushing formations.

I also wanted to add while the pre-season was a good indicater of things to expect from your offensive line when you were under Green you have to put into consideration that this in an entirely new coaching staff just because some things were one way when Green was head coach it doesn't mean the trend will stay after he is gone.

 

[the donald]

i am surprised to see so many niner picks. but am shocked to see all the blowout picks, that won't happen.


and i believe fitz will be rendered ineffective. he will get around 4 catches for maybe 50-60 yards, but i think he will get a 30+ yard catch, but nate will have a pick to counter that. it is boldin and johnson that will have an oppurtunity to rip the D apart. edge won't do much, the only RBs we have problems with are the quicker cut back players, that will break tackles, and they can only pop off a few 15yd runs.


the game is too close to call, but i am going to be there, and i know this stadium will be loud, just like the seattle game last year, when jerry rice was honored, because that is when the younger fans like me come out, and we cheer our butts off.

 

[Redsz]

As a cornerback coverage assignment from a 4-3 and 3-4 don't really change at all (don't know where u came up with that piece of information, maybe you were thinking safeties?) its just the language so Clements should have the same type of productivity.

That really remains to be seen.

There is a significant difference in playing CB with Aaron Schobel in front of you and playing CB with Manny Lawson in front of you.

I am not sold on your defensive line being good enough to tie up blockers and allow your OLB's to pressure the quaterback.

Additionally, I wouldn't over look the fact that Donte Whitner played lights out last year and helped out Clements a great deal. I don't see a saftey the calibur of Whitner on your roster, as Roman Harper is a role player and Lewis is a complete liability in pass coverage.

Sure buffalo has had some better personnel but they suffered huge losses in FA and there defensive squad is in shambles.

Last year they were still a good defense. Not elite. But still good with 19.4 PPG (10th). But Nate Clements is not playing with Buffalo any more, but with San Francisco who has a questionable front seven.

Regarding the Offensive Line,what you saw in the pre-season is not likely going to happen in the regular season. Teams aren't going to show there blitz packages or anything remotely close to what they will during the regular season. So your offensive line did a good job protecting Leinart from B-A-S-I-C rushing formations.

I also wanted to add while the pre-season was a good indicater of things to expect from your offensive line when you were under Green you have to put into consideration that this in an entirely new coaching staff just because some things were one way when Green was head coach it doesn't mean the trend will stay after he is gone.

I realize that teams aren't going to show off their exotic packages in the pre-season. But in week 3, the Chargers blitzed us from the start of the game. For example:

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/20...rformance-week-3-preseason-through-half-time/

3rd down and basically 10 now. 3WR set. The Boltsiif bring 5 on a delayed blitz. This was another timing route. The entire line creates a pocket for Leinart to throw into. No one was even close to getting to him. Not a perfect pocket, as he didn’t have the greatest throwing lane. He throws the bal behind Fitz. The ball was nearly tipped and thrown behind Fitz, but he still makes a pretty good catch. However, Quintin Jammer times the play perfectly and hits Fitz’s arms causing him to drop the ball. 4/5


In last years pre-season the OL couldn't even win one on one match-ups. That continued until about half through the season.

However, this year the OL is winning those match ups. I somehow doubt that the entire line is going to stop doing that as soon as the season starts.

 

[The Dude]

That really remains to be seen.

There is a significant difference in playing CB with Aaron Schobel in front of you and playing CB with Manny Lawson in front of you.

I am not sold on your defensive line being good enough to tie up blockers and allow your OLB's to pressure the quaterback.

Additionally, I wouldn't over look the fact that Donte Whitner played lights out last year and helped out Clements a great deal. I don't see a saftey the calibur of Whitner on your roster, as Roman Harper is a role player and Lewis is a complete liability in pass coverage.



Last year they were still a good defense. Not elite. But still good with 19.4 PPG (10th). But Nate Clements is not playing with Buffalo any more, but with San Francisco who has a questionable front seven.



I realize that teams aren't going to show off their exotic packages in the pre-season. But in week 3, the Chargers blitzed us from the start of the game. For example:

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/20...rformance-week-3-preseason-through-half-time/

3rd down and basically 10 now. 3WR set. The Boltsiif bring 5 on a delayed blitz. This was another timing route. The entire line creates a pocket for Leinart to throw into. No one was even close to getting to him. Not a perfect pocket, as he didn’t have the greatest throwing lane. He throws the bal behind Fitz. The ball was nearly tipped and thrown behind Fitz, but he still makes a pretty good catch. However, Quintin Jammer times the play perfectly and hits Fitz’s arms causing him to drop the ball. 4/5


In last years pre-season the OL couldn't even win one on one match-ups. That continued until about half through the season.

However, this year the OL is winning those match ups. I somehow doubt that the entire line is going to stop doing that as soon as the season starts.

BTW it's Mark Roman not Roman Harper. I don't understand how you can after Lawson, the kid is only in his second year and as a rookie he wasn't able to rush the passer as much as we like because he was forced into a coverage role due to injuries and did a very adequate job. It remains to be seen if Lawson can effectively rush the passer. We might not have a Aaron Schobel but we do have Tully Banta-Cain who is a virtual nobody but has gotten a reputation around the league being a hard nosed rusher. He was splitting time in NE and managed to record 5 sacks in a split role. He has lots of experience in the system and he knows what to expect. Our defensive line while still pretty bad has been getting better. And as for our Safeties Mark Roman's coverage skills will suffice and Michael Lewis is a well known coverage liability but thats not why we brought him to SF. Also something that is erking me is that you made the comment that Clements was a PB in the 4-3 not 3-4. What difference does it make? coverage assignments are exactly the same, there is no difference from a 3-4 CB to a 4-3 CB. I just didn't see where u you were going with that.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

SF 31
AZ 20

I don't see our defense holding up against many opponents this season. Our DB's are terrible, LB's not much better, and I don't see our DL putting much pressure on the QB. Add an improved Smith to the equation along with Davis, Jackson, and Frank Gore and I don't like our chances.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see more than 7 wins this upcoming season. There are simply too many holes

Yet, you think SF's defense is gonna hold us to 20 pts?

That is not going to happen. Just explain to me who, and how they are going to stop our offense. Nate Clements can't cover Fitz, AND Boldin AND Bryant Johnson AND blitz Leinart.

Heck, I wanna see Nate Clements try and cover Fitz. This is not the AFC East anymore. Clements is going to have to go up against some actual NFL widerecievers.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I agree to a certain degree, but please keep underestimating Clements i can't wait to see him disable either Fitz or Boldin come monday night. btw nice little jab there with the educated football fan comment, those are hard to come by now a day's.

Nate Clements is a great CB.

But who has he played against ?

The Jets? The best their is Laverneous Coles and he would have a tough time beating out Bryant Johnson for our 3rd WR spot.

The Dolphins? Chris Chambers......nuff said.

The Patriots? Reche Caldwell, and Jabar Gaffney are not exactly "feared"

I am not bashing I am just stating fact. Nate Clements will have a test this Monday night and Niner fans will know what they got after this game.

****Yes, this is talking smack******

We already know what you guys have in Walt Harris and Michael Lewis........two pieces of toast!

 

[The Dude]

Yet, you think SF's defense is gonna hold us to 20 pts?

That is not going to happen. Just explain to me who, and how they are going to stop our defense. Nate Clements can't cover Fitz, AND Boldin AND Bryant Johnson AND blitz Leinart.

Heck, I wanna see Nate Clements try and cover Fitz. This is not the AFC East anymore. Clements is going to have to go up against some actual NFL widerecievers.

You guys please keep underestimating Clement's ability. come monday night Clements is going dominate. And if i am wrong i will come back to this forum and eat the biggest plate of crow ever.

 

[The Dude]

Nate Clements is a great CB.

But who has he played against ?

The Jets? The best their is Laverneous Coles and he would have a tough time beating out Bryant Johnson for our 3rd WR spot.

The Dolphins? Chris Chambers......nuff said.

The Patriots? Reche Caldwell, and Jabar Gaffney are not exactly "feared"

I am not bashing I am just stating fact. Nate Clements will have a test this Monday night and Niner fans will know what they got after this game.

****Yes, this is talking smack******

We already know what you guys have in Walt Harris and Michael Lewis........two pieces of toast!

Chris Chambers and Lavernous Coles are no jokes. You think it is easy being a WR in the NFL? Coles and Chambers have put respectable season and they are not to be taken lightly. Lets not forget Clements also played against, Mike Furray, Mushin Muhommed, Donald Driver, Andre Johnson i mean these guys are no push overs.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Chris Chambers and Lavernous Coles are no jokes. You think it is easy being a WR in the NFL? Coles and Chambers have put respectable season and they are not to be taken lightly. Lets not forget Clements also played against, Mike Furray, Mushin Muhommed, Donald Driver, Andre Johnson i mean these guys are no push overs.

First off.....where you from?

I mean it is 3:30 am on the west coast

Second, Are you playing WR in the NFL? Cause "you think this is easy?" Whatever. I am a NFL fan. I can care less about how easy it is or hard it is. They get paid to do their job I have no sympathy for their "plight". These players are playing at their top potential (or should be at least). Judging from what I have seen through the years. Chris Chambers, and L.Coles couldn't crack Arizona's top 3 WR. You wanna say they are solid that is fine. But your team is not playing "solid" WR's on Monday night. They are playing elite WR's on Monday night. That should scare you and your team as much as Frank Gore does to us (him being an elite NFL RB).

Third, as much as you think we are "under estimating" Clements. I think you are doing the same with our top 3 WR core.

With all the names you listed above only Andre Johnson is in Fitzgerald's and Boldin's league. The other guys are not even close.

I have said Nate Clements has proven to be a very good player. He is going to be challenged Monday night, and by the end of the game both Niner fans and NFL fans as a whole will know how good the guy really is.

Clements shuts down Fitz or Boldin that is enought to get my full respect. I cannot say for sure what I think is going to happen. I just know many teams have tried to stop Fitzgerald and it is almost impossible. Then again looking at it from the other angle their are no CB's in the NFC west that are in Clements league.

It will be a good match up none the less.

Either way the game is going to be a track meet. I think some of these predictions of the Cardinals or the Niners only scoring 20 or less points is a little bit of a stretch.

By the way take a look at this:
http://arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96784

I seriously would like a Niner's take on this post I made. You know how it goes. Until the season starts it is all speculation. I would like to hear an insiders take on the match ups. The one place I think I might be under estimating the Niners is at defensive line.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

You guys please keep underestimating Clement's ability. come monday night Clements is going dominate. And if i am wrong i will come back to this forum and eat the biggest plate of crow ever.

Come back anyway.

I have been reading through your posts. It is rare to have a level headed opposing team guest come visit.

Plus their is no shame if Fitzgerald lights it up. He is scary good. I seriously don't know how the heck you stop him.

 

[English on tour]

sorry but think it all goes pear shaped on monday 13 - 27 loss maybe

 

[EuroCard]

Cardinals 31 - 20 Niners

 

[nashman]

We will win this game handily! They cannot stop our offense, the only way we don't score 4TD's or more will be our own mistakes. And with a competant coaching staff I don't see us making as many as in the past. The Dude has some valid arguments but he doesn't know anything about our team and clearly our Oline is already better than we have seen the past few years. They could not beat us when we had the worst OL in football but now thinks they can contain us? Please! And Clements is good but not gonna shut down Q or Fitz shoot he would have a hard time with BJ. ANd if they drop a bunch into coverage you will get alot of Edge, SHipp, JJ. I really think we are gonna light them up like 34 - 14 something like that.

 

[cardsfanmd]

You guys please keep underestimating Clement's ability. come monday night Clements is going dominate. And if i am wrong i will come back to this forum and eat the biggest plate of crow ever.

I am holding you to that.

 

[nashman]

A CB is gonna dominate? Yeah we are the ones who don't know what we're talking about! Geesh

 

[The Dude]

We will win this game handily! They cannot stop our offense, the only way we don't score 4TD's or more will be our own mistakes. And with a competant coaching staff I don't see us making as many as in the past. The Dude has some validarguments but he doesn't know anything about our team and clearly our Oline is already better than we have seen the past few years. They could not beat us when we had the worst OL in football but now thinks they can contain us? Please! And Clements is good but not gonna shut down Q or Fitz shoot he would have a hard time with BJ. ANd if they drop a bunch into coverage you will get alot of Edge, SHipp, JJ. I really think we are gonna light them up like 34 - 14 something like that.

Really? Well this is what i do know: You have a terrific core of receivers,
a Franchise Quarterback that is ready to break out, and a playmaker in edge. Your offensive Line has been absolutely terrible in recent memory, and brought in Levi Brown to secure Leinart's blind side(also i believe more importantly than the addition to Brown, Russ Grim will have a huge impact on the line). But i fair warning do not put too much stock into what you see in the pre-season because your will set yourself up for failure. As for your defense there are some bright spots. Wilson is a tremendous Safety and easily your best defender. Rolle has lost his job to Roderick Hood who was the nickel corner in philly(my uncle is an eagle fan so i saw a lot of philly games, this guy has decent press coverage but he should not in no way play on a soft cushion, he was beaten by the most simple routes and look lost out on the field) and will play opposite of Eric Green. Your FA acquisition Terrance Holt is terrible, why anyone would take a player from Detroit's defense is beyond me but Holt in particular lacks coverage skills. Rodney Bailey who was a steeler lineman was mostly used in 3rd down packages he does hold some value, Joe Tafoya is a Seattle reject(not much else to say about him). You do have a athletic group of LB's, Dansby is awesome i have been a fan of him since his days at auburn. Monty Biesel has been around the league he his a well seasoned veteran that can fill in. Not to sure of Blackstock i have heard mixed reviews but i don't know enough about him to comment. The loss of Chike Okeafer is going to be hard, but i wouldn't be so quick to label Moses as the savior just yet. Berry is still going strong and he will provide his presence on the line, now you just need someone to match it on the other side. I get the gist of things right? or I'm I still off?

Now lets move to a different argument. I never said that we are going to stop your offense, i do not believe many defenses can. Our defense has improved more and more and more. Clement's who has been undermined through out this entire thread, is a tough Corner and easily one of the top 3 corners in the league. Clements is going to be covering fitz and i think he limit him to about 4-5 catches and maybe around 50 yards. To me that is a good game compared to what you guys have done to us in the past. But where do you come off and say that Clement's would have a tough time with BJ? I could understand Boldin and Fitz but Johnson? I don't think so.

And with a competant coaching staff I don't see us making as many(mistakes) as in the past.

Some word's of wisdom. Coaches Coach, and the Players Play. Just because you change coaching staff's doesn't mean it takes away all of the mental mistakes that have been embedded into your players. It might have some effect but don't hold your breathe.

So now that we have been through why i think we can not stop but do our best against your offense. What makes you so confident that your defense can hold us to 14 points?

I want to quote you on your last post which u mysteriously didn't respond too.

Alex Smith is a mediocre QB at best right now, he has done nothing to expect him to throw for almost 300 against us thats just borderline silly. Your best bet is to try to beat us with the run period!

You know whats funny? He almost threw for 300 yard against you last time. and that was with nobody. Now you have to factor in that we have Darrell Jackson, Ashley Lelie, a more seasoned Vernon Davis, Frank Gore who abused just about everyone last season and now he has "fresh legs" going into the season. This will be Alex's second year in the league so expect more creativity and variety in the play-calling. Our offensive line is easily in the top 10 for run blocking and is still very solid in the pass protection(now that we have benched interstate 77 it can only get better). Ask your self, who is going to cover Davis? Dansby? Nope. Wilson? I wish. Holt? Nope. Blackstock? No. Davis is a mismatch for everyone on your defense. Hood and Green are slated to be the starters monday night and i doubt that the have the ability to cover Jackson(who is a well known card killer). Battle has proven to be a clutch performer. The bigger question is who is going to stop Gore? Our offensive line against your defense, we will win 99 times out of 100. We have one of the best pulling guards in Smiley, our Left Side is a manned by Jennings and Allen both road graders. Our fullback Moran Morris will continually find his way into the 2nd level and he will break anyone in his path. We might not be able to stop your offense but don't sleep on us for second or you might find gore 8 yards down your throat.

 

[AZCB34]

Sf 35
Az 24

 

[The Dude]

First off.....where you from?

I mean it is 3:30 am on the west coast

Second, Are you playing WR in the NFL? Cause "you think this is easy?" Whatever. I am a NFL fan. I can care less about how easy it is or hard it is. They get paid to do their job I have no sympathy for their "plight". These players are playing at their top potential (or should be at least). Judging from what I have seen through the years. Chris Chambers, and L.Coles couldn't crack Arizona's top 3 WR. You wanna say they are solid that is fine. But your team is not playing "solid" WR's on Monday night. They are playing elite WR's on Monday night. That should scare you and your team as much as Frank Gore does to us (him being an elite NFL RB).

Third, as much as you think we are "under estimating" Clements. I think you are doing the same with our top 3 WR core.

With all the names you listed above only Andre Johnson is in Fitzgerald's and Boldin's league. The other guys are not even close.

I have said Nate Clements has proven to be a very good player. He is going to be challenged Monday night, and by the end of the game both Niner fans and NFL fans as a whole will know how good the guy really is.

Clements shuts down Fitz or Boldin that is enought to get my full respect. I cannot say for sure what I think is going to happen. I just know many teams have tried to stop Fitzgerald and it is almost impossible. Then again looking at it from the other angle their are no CB's in the NFC west that are in Clements league.

It will be a good match up none the less.

Either way the game is going to be a track meet. I think some of these predictions of the Cardinals or the Niners only scoring 20 or less points is a little bit of a stretch.

By the way take a look at this:
http://arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96784

I seriously would like a Niner's take on this post I made. You know how it goes. Until the season starts it is all speculation. I would like to hear an insiders take on the match ups. The one place I think I might be under estimating the Niners is at defensive line.

Well you should care about how hard it is to play WR in the national football league. I think your to full of yourself to think either Chambers, or Coles wouldn't crack your top 3. Coles since 2000 has consistently put up 800 yard season's. had back to back 1000 yard season. Chamber's has put up very similar season to Coles and had 2 season where he caught 11 TD's. You don't do put up those kinds of numbers and not be good. I am not a receiver in the NFL but i have had first hand experience playing college. That lining up has a receiver is not easy in the slightest bit. There are so many things you have to go through before the ball snaps.

What coverage is the secondary in?
How is your route going to dicate the movement's of your defender?
Is that secondary lining up In T2?
How much cushion the defender is giving you?<Is he going eat it up quick or keep distance?< Is he going to be on my outside or inside?< How doe's that effect my route?
If My route is going one way there might be additional defender's put in coverage below me?< The possibility of Linebackers in coverage?
Is it cover 2?< Should i make an adjustment and sit when i get to my break?

Then the ball snaps and you have to run your route with precision with all of these things going on in your head, and then you have to focus on catching the ball. Then getting hit. Being a WR is not the least bit easy.

And i will check out that thead.

 

[red desert]

Cards - 40

49ers - 31

Story of the game (besides the Walsh tribute) is Q catching a td pass and throwing for another.

 

[Redsz]

BTW it's Mark Roman not Roman Harper.

My bad. I must of confused the New Orleans DB's.

I don't understand how you can after Lawson, the kid is only in his second year and as a rookie he wasn't able to rush the passer as much as we like because he was forced into a coverage role due to injuries and did a very adequate job. It remains to be seen if Lawson can effectively rush the passer.

That's really the point though.

He doesn't have a proven pass rusher infront of him and that's going to impact on his play. That's why I find it hard to believe that his production is going to stay the same.

We might not have a Aaron Schobel but we do have Tully Banta-Cain who is a virtual nobody but has gotten a reputation around the league being a hard nosed rusher. He was splitting time in NE and managed to record 5 sacks in a split role. He has lots of experience in the system and he knows what to expect.

Again, he is another unknown commodity. There seems to be alot of question marks on the SF defense.

Our defensive line while still pretty bad has been getting better.

What I think is going to hurt you the most is the fact that you don't have a legit NT. The 3-4 lives and dies by that.

And as for our Safeties Mark Roman's coverage skills will suffice

Dude, if you are going to bag on Terrance Holt then you can't say that Mark Roman will 'suffice'.

and Michael Lewis is a well known coverage liability but thats not why we brought him to SF.

I know, he is going to try and imitate what Adrian Wilson does.

Also something that is erking me is that you made the comment that Clements was a PB in the 4-3 not 3-4. What difference does it make? coverage assignments are exactly the same, there is no difference from a 3-4 CB to a 4-3 CB. I just didn't see where u you were going with that.

I was merley making a distinction between the two teams and their defensive systems.

But, Buffalo still has the hold overs from a good defensive team and isn't reliant on unknown players to generate a pass rush. Aaron Schobel didn't have to worry about the guys infront of him to get after the QB in the 4-3.

Clements is going to have to hope that the D-Line can be effective, so that Lawson can be effective, so that he can be effective...