Preseason Mid-Term Report

[Mulli]

Duly noted in the sarcasm department, but reality is that none of us can possibly know how much voice Keim had in the old regime. Its his ship now, time to float, or head for the bottom, we'll soon see.

If it turns out that he's actually quite a skilled talent evaluator, I expect some crow eating, as well as acknowledging that not once has he used the old regime as a crutch as to why picks in the past havent worked out. He's thrown no one under the bus, which would be super easy to do.

Lets hold off on the snarky evals until we have some concrete evidence. When did you become such a hater?

Somewhere between Kolb, Skelton and Lindley and several misses on 2nd and 3rd round draft picks. I know my rights. I am allowed to darkside it!

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I know my rights. I am allowed to darkside it!

Great line.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Why does everyone here take guys who live in New Jersey and Massachusetts, and their evaluation of the Cards talent, so seriously?

Mitch is a friggin' English teacher high school coach, and Rugby's claim to sports fame is that he plays Rugby.

Any of us who follow this team 365 days a year are as qualified as those two. We can all get some right and some wrong. Big frigging deal.

I don't know whether to feel complimented or slighted.


I like that people tell me when I am wrong, and debate what I post. Like Krang's post above, that is awesome. Great points made, and all kinds of stuff to think about.

I don't know if it is that people take it too seriously, I think it is more that Mitch, a lot of other posters, and myself take the time to write up things to talk about. Anybody can do it sure, but you gotta actually sit down and do it for it to happen. I really enjoy sitting down and writing/blogging about the Cardinals. So much so that, while I enjoy the fact that some people read it, it doesn't bother me if no one ever does. Writing it was half the fun.

Yet, you 100% right about how anyone can write up what I do, and that my highest level of athletic competition was playing rugby.

People can take what I write as seriously as they want to, but as you said, it is just a message board.

I actually write this stuff so that I can learn, and toss around ideas that I didn't think of.

 

[Mulli]

Rugby is as close to Bo Jackson as you get when it comes to ASFN.

 

[kerouac9]

Duly noted in the sarcasm department, but reality is that none of us can possibly know how much voice Keim had in the old regime. Its his ship now, time to float, or head for the bottom, we'll soon see.

If it turns out that he's actually quite a skilled talent evaluator, I expect some crow eating, as well as acknowledging that not once has he used the old regime as a crutch as to why picks in the past havent worked out. He's thrown no one under the bus, which would be super easy to do.

Lets hold off on the snarky evals until we have some concrete evidence. When did you become such a hater?

Really? Because I remember the reports that Keim wanted Cutler over Leinart, wanted Patrick Peterson over Levi Brown, etc., etc. Those reports weren't made up by the reporters.

The Kolb trade was widely presented as a Cardinal decision that had all the stakeholders behind it. Kiem doesn't come into his role with a clean slate. He has some stain of the last 16 years of almost unmitigated failure on his record.

And you know this how? Good business dictates as much dissenting opinion as possible. Im not discounting the possibility that Keim isnt all he's hyped up to be. But it SURE aint gospel, and many ere run around all smug, as if being a wise guy makes it so.

You can offer all the opinion you want. Mine is that at its core, the haters have no concrete proof about anything from Keim before he was elevated to GM this off season. Now, we can let the chips fall where they may. Referencing the past does nothing but make n'er-do-wells feel better about themselves.

Who says the Cards are a "good business," or have good business practices? They're one of the least-valued franchises in the NFL, despite playing in the 5th-largest media market and having their own, brand new, stadium.

Again, why promote Keim if he's not been a decision-maker the last several years? Either he's had a hand in the poor decisions of the past, or he's uniquely unqualified for his current position.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Really? Because I remember the reports that Keim wanted Cutler over Leinart, wanted Patrick Peterson over Levi Brown, etc., etc. Those reports weren't made up by the reporters.

Freudian Slip

 

[kerouac9]

Freudian Slip

I don't know--what does it accidentially reveal? The Cards have had little problem making no-brainer picks like Patrick Peterson.

Adrian Peterson, of course.

 

[Mulli]

You would think the guy who stood on the table for Anquan Boldin would have some input, at least a little, in other drafts.

I guess they just always ignored him but kept him around since he was an up and comer despite being ignored.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Again, why promote Keim if he's not been a decision-maker the last several years? Either he's had a hand in the poor decisions of the past, or he's uniquely unqualified for his current position.

You mean Steve Keim the rookie GM isn't perfect

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Rugby is as close to Bo Jackson as you get when it comes to ASFN.

????

You are not allowed to tackle me when I am near the sidelines !!!

 

[kerouac9]

You mean Steve Keim the rookie GM isn't perfect

LOL. It's not an either/or between perfection and disaster. It's just that I think it's fair to say that a guy who has spent 16 years inside one of the worst organizations in professional sports not immaculately conceived.

Do we give Steve Keim a blank check to make mistakes because he's a "rookie GM"? How many screwed-up seasons/drafts does he get before it's fair to criticize? It's okay to "BASK in the limelight" of a 2-0 preseason start, but it's not okay to wonder how much input Keim had in the drafting of Jamell Flemming, who may not make the roster this season?

 

[Mulli]

????

You are not allowed to tackle me when I am near the sidelines !!!

I will always stand on the table for you.

 

[Mulli]

LOL. It's not an either/or between perfection and disaster. It's just that I think it's fair to say that a guy who has spent 16 years inside one of the worst organizations in professional sports not immaculately conceived.

Do we give Steve Keim a blank check to make mistakes because he's a "rookie GM"? How many screwed-up seasons/drafts does he get before it's fair to criticize? It's okay to "BASK in the limelight" of a 2-0 preseason start, but it's not okay to wonder how much input Keim had in the drafting of Jamell Flemming, who may not make the roster this season?

Stop trying to make yourself feel better, n'er-do-well.

 

[MadCardDisease]

LOL. It's not an either/or between perfection and disaster. It's just that I think it's fair to say that a guy who has spent 16 years inside one of the worst organizations in professional sports not immaculately conceived.

Do we give Steve Keim a blank check to make mistakes because he's a "rookie GM"? How many screwed-up seasons/drafts does he get before it's fair to criticize? It's okay to "BASK in the limelight" of a 2-0 preseason start, but it's not okay to wonder how much input Keim had in the drafting of Jamell Flemming, who may not make the roster this season?

All very good questions. I think it is fair to criticize Keim from the day that he took over. This is the NFL after all and it's all about the now. So I don't think anyone is immune from criticism.

The way I see it is that Rod Graves was the head of the team over the last decade. IMO he was the final say and deserves any criticism for the failures of the last decade.

This is now Keim's team. It has been completely made over. He had a say in the new head coach and he completely retooled the roster. So for me I will judge Keim "the GM" from the minute he was hired to be the GM of the Cardinals.

And yes I do think it is silly to praise Keim and the whole team for their current preseason record. We all know that the preseason means very little aside from who ends up making the final roster. Still there is nothing wrong about being excited with the new direction of this team.

 

[BigRedRage]

lets give him a chance to prove his worth before we burn him like the rest of the witches.

 

[kerouac9]

All very good questions. I think it is fair to criticize Keim from the day that he took over. This is the NFL after all and it's all about the now. So I don't think anyone is immune from criticism.

The way I see it is that Rod Graves was the head of the team over the last decade. IMO he was the final say and deserves any criticism for the failures of the last decade.

This is now Keim's team. It has been completely made over. He had a say in the new head coach and he completely retooled the roster. So for me I will judge Keim "the GM" from the minute he was hired to be the GM of the Cardinals.

And yes I do think it is silly to praise Keim and the whole team for their current preseason record. We all know that the preseason means very little aside from who ends up making the final roster. Still there is nothing wrong about being excited with the new direction of this team.

All that's fair. I give Keim some demerit for the Kolb deal, but the rest of the free agent acquisitions I don't lay any blame on his doorstep. I'm holding Keim harmless for Stewart Bradley, Adam Snyder, etc., etc.

I do think that it's fair to look askance on historical draft performance, particularly in the prior three years. That was where he allegedly made his reputation with the Cards, and where his real value is supposed to be. I think it's perfectly fair to put some blame on Keim for Jamell Flemming, Ryan Williams, Senio Kelemete, Ryan Lindley, Anthony Sherman, Quan Sturdivant, John Skelton, Jorrick Calvin, and O'Brien Schofield.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I do think that it's fair to look askance on historical draft performance, particularly in the prior three years. That was where he allegedly made his reputation with the Cards, and where his real value is supposed to be. I think it's perfectly fair to put some blame on Keim for Jamell Flemming, Ryan Williams, Senio Kelemete, Ryan Lindley, Anthony Sherman, Quan Sturdivant, John Skelton, Jorrick Calvin, and O'Brien Schofield.

Obviously Keim and his scout team provided the analysis for all of these guys, but we really don't know what went on in the war room and days leading up to the draft. Whiz and his staff had an idea of what type of players they wanted to fit their scheme. So when the staff put together the draft board, players that Keim might have really liked may not have fit what Whiz and company were looking for. That IMO is why it is almost impossible to judge Keim's past draft performance.

What we do know for sure is the guys that Keim drafted in 2013. Already there is one swing and a miss (Swope). DC Jefferson is not looking the part so far. I mean you can pick apart every draft. You are not going to hit on every player.

I think what you have to judge the GM on is the final 53 man roster. Was he able to put together a roster full of starters and capabable backups while still managing the cap. So far we are only a thrid of the way through Chapter 1 of Steve Keim as a GM and I think it is way too early to tell how successful he will be.

 

[Mulli]

How is it impossible to judge his performance enough to blab back and forth about on here?

He either played a part or he didn't. Bares some responsibility or he doesn't.

 

[BigRedRage]

How is it impossible to judge his performance enough to blab back and forth about on here?

He either played a part or he didn't. Bares some responsibility or he doesn't.

Clean slate. 2013 and on. Its on him.

 

[Mulli]

Clean slate. 2013 and on. Its on him.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

He looks like a gopher.

That is on him.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Duckjake]

And you know this how? Good business dictates as much dissenting opinion as possible. Im not discounting the possibility that Keim isnt all he's hyped up to be. But it SURE aint gospel, and many ere run around all smug, as if being a wise guy makes it so.

You can offer all the opinion you want. Mine is that at its core, the haters have no concrete proof about anything from Keim before he was elevated to GM this off season. Now, we can let the chips fall where they may. Referencing the past does nothing but make n'er-do-wells feel better about themselves.

And you have no proof about anything either do you? The bolded part reminds me of the omnipresent posters who write "we need to wait until the game to discuss this" and then 2 minutes after the game is over write "the games over time to move on." Offering opinion is what message boards are for. If you only want updated info on cuts or trades or whatever follow the team on twitter.

Also how does referencing the past make ne'r do wells feel better about themselves? To me it's just fun to talk about Cardinal football past, present and future. But then I guess I am a n'er do well.

 

[Mulli]

And you have no proof about anything either do you? The bolded part reminds me of the omnipresent posters who write "we need to wait until the game to discuss this" and then 2 minutes after the game is over write "the games over time to move on." Offering opinion is what message boards are for. If you only want updated info on cuts or trades or whatever follow the team on twitter.

Also how does referencing the past make ne'r do wells feel better about themselves? To me it's just fun to talk about Cardinal football past, present and future. But then I guess I am a n'er do well.

Welcome to the n'er do well club!

 

[schutd]

Really? Because I remember the reports that Keim wanted Cutler over Leinart, wanted Patrick Peterson over Levi Brown, etc., etc. Those reports weren't made up by the reporters.

The Kolb trade was widely presented as a Cardinal decision that had all the stakeholders behind it. Kiem doesn't come into his role with a clean slate. He has some stain of the last 16 years of almost unmitigated failure on his record.

Yes, Really. Those were reports, they werent Keim getting behind the mic and blowharding about how he had been hamstrung by the previous regime and now he was really going to shine.

No one who comes from the previous regime comes in unblemished, I get that. But certainly we can agree that while the argument can be made that Keim was responsible for all the former bad decisions, we can also argue that truly, theres no way to know. Levity.

Who says the Cards are a "good business," or have good business practices? They're one of the least-valued franchises in the NFL, despite playing in the 5th-largest media market and having their own, brand new, stadium.

Again, why promote Keim if he's not been a decision-maker the last several years? Either he's had a hand in the poor decisions of the past, or he's uniquely unqualified for his current position.

They are in the lower half of values franchises, yes. But a nice choice of words on your part to make it seem like they are bottom dwellers. They arent. The franchise is worth almost a billion dollars.

Again, Im positing as much as everyone else here, but why cant the possibility exist that he was promoted because ownership saw his opinions over the past 16 years and felt that had they listened to him back then, he wouldnt actually have "last 16 years of almost unmitigated failure on his record." Your flair with words is admirable. But its about as much fact as my opinions are.

 

[schutd]

How is it impossible to judge his performance enough to blab back and forth about on here?

He either played a part or he didn't. Bares some responsibility or he doesn't.

No ones arguing that. What we are arguing is the snide BS comments tat seem to drop everything from the previous 16 years at his feet. My ONLY argument is theres no way to know what happened before. Now, its his team. It all on him.

N'er-do-well