Present depth chart

[sunsfan88]

elindholm:

I have a formula that uses all aspects of offense available in typical stats to calculate an offensive efficiency rating. For all players with more than a thousand minutes last year Beasley was worst in the league and Green was second worst. Widening the scope to only 700 minutes required, Wes Johnson snuck in between them.

Where does Marcus Morris rank using your formula?

 

[Superbone]

USA Today touts the Morris twins as a reason (one of the few) to watch the Suns play.

http://www.azcentral.com/insiders/p...will-air-82-games-but-are-deemed-unwatchable/

 

[elindholm]

I have a formula that uses all aspects of offense available in typical stats to calculate an offensive efficiency rating. For all players with more than a thousand minutes last year Beasley was worst in the league and Green was second worst.

Awesome.

 

[Errntknght]

There are 469 players in the list I use, 263 of them had 1000+ minutes. As I mentioned Beasley was the worst, Brown was 35th worst, Marcus 39th and Markieff about 50th. 50 more minutes and Wes Johnson would have qualified and ranked second worst.

 

[Chaplin]

There are 469 players in the list I use, 263 of them had 1000+ minutes. As I mentioned Beasley was the worst, Brown was 35th worst, Marcus 39th and Markieff about 50th. 50 more minutes and Wes Johnson would have qualified and ranked second worst.

If you equate Wes Johnson to Gerald Green, would Marcus Morris still be the preferred player? It's a stretch, yes, but I don't see a big argument for Morris over Green. There isn't much of one for Green over Morris, either, but I'd much rather see Green than Morris.

 

[Errntknght]

If you equate Wes Johnson to Gerald Green, would Marcus Morris still be the preferred player?

Marcus is better statistically than Wes Johnson. He's also better according to my eye test - on offense and defense.

Green has been the league 6 years and his off efficiency has bounced around a bit from year to year but it never got close to average for SGs or SFs but the running came figures to suit him fairly well and Marcus not so well.

 

[Chaplin]

Marcus is better statistically than Wes Johnson. He's also better according to my eye test - on offense and defense.

Green has been the league 6 years and his off efficiency has bounced around a bit from year to year but it never got close to average for SGs or SFs but the running came figures to suit him fairly well and Marcus not so well.

Are you comparing career stats, or statistics only with the Suns? I know Wes would be preferable to the corpse that was Marcus Morris on the Suns last year.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Are you comparing career stats, or statistics only with the Suns? I know Wes would be preferable to the corpse that was Marcus Morris on the Suns last year.

Ditto

 

[Mainstreet]

Anyone know if the Suns have the Morris twins locked into a contract beyond their second season? My understanding is the Suns have to make a decision by October 31st to pick up the team options on these players at least for the 2014-15 season (their third year). My hunch is the Suns have already picked up their contracts for this season but I'm not totally clear. It also raises some interesting questions about Marshall coming into his second season, whether the Suns want to pick up his option on a third season.

 

[elindholm]

Anyone know if the Suns have the Morris twins locked into a contract beyond their second season? My understanding is the Suns have to make a decision by October 31st to pick up the team options on these players at least for the 2014-15 season (their third year).

2014-15 is their fourth year (they were sophomores last season), but other than that, I think you're right. My guess is that they'll pick up Markieff's fourth year but not Marcus's. In spite of Marcus's slightly better shooting last season, my impression is that Markieff is the slightly better player -- but in any case, keeping both would be redundant.

 

[Mainstreet]

2014-15 is their fourth year (they were sophomores last season), but other than that, I think you're right. My guess is that they'll pick up Markieff's fourth year but not Marcus's. In spite of Marcus's slightly better shooting last season, my impression is that Markieff is the slightly better player -- but in any case, keeping both would be redundant.

Thanks, I had the years messed up in my calculation of the Morris twins situation. I too think Markieff is the most likely to be kept of the twins because he plays a position of need, PF. This will leave two unhappy twins no matter how one slices it, if one is kept and the other leaves.

So this leaves Marshall. Do the Suns have to pick up his third year option this October 31st (coming into his second season) or the following season by this date.

These team option dates mess me up.

 

[elindholm]

So this leaves Marshall. Do the Suns have to pick up his third year option this October 31st (coming into his second season) or the following season by this date.

Unless they've changed the rule with the latest CBA, it's by October 31 a year in advance. So the decision on the third year has to be made before the start of the second.

 

[Errntknght]

Are you comparing career stats, or statistics only with the Suns? I know Wes would be preferable to the corpse that was Marcus Morris on the Suns last year.

When I said Green was never close to average for SGs and SFs that was in comparison to them league wide, on my offensive efficiency stat. I've computed the league averages by position for most years since about 1980 and they do shift over time but they've stayed fairly constant during his career so I was comfortable only using the averages for last season to make that statement.

You may know you prefer Wes and I know I'd be a little less concerned about winning too many games if we had him instead of Marcus. He's also more fun to watch because he does have a pretty shot and he seems to be a happy-go-lucky guy. I wouldn't want him around when we are trying to win games, though, because he defends like he's playing a friendly game of 'HORSE' - in addition to being most inefficient on offense.

 

[leclerc]

Can you imagine Green and Brown on the court at the same time?

LOL the horror. I want to see it though, just to see what the hell goes on. It's lined up for some epic iso turnovers, question mark faces and a lot of raised eyebrows. Poor Horny.

 

[leclerc]

If you equate Wes Johnson to Gerald Green, would Marcus Morris still be the preferred player? It's a stretch, yes, but I don't see a big argument for Morris over Green. There isn't much of one for Green over Morris, either, but I'd much rather see Green than Morris.

How about coming back to this thread a month or two into the season and tell us if that opinion has changed, or if you were right?

I'm not thrilled about Marcus Morris at all, and I haven't seen anything of Green, but being about as effective as the Beas and Wes Johnson does not bode well. He might be better in a different system though, so we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Hoop Head]

Thanks, I had the years messed up in my calculation of the Morris twins situation. I too think Markieff is the most likely to be kept of the twins because he plays a position of need, PF. This will leave two unhappy twins no matter how one slices it, if one is kept and the other leaves.

So this leaves Marshall. Do the Suns have to pick up his third year option this October 31st (coming into his second season) or the following season by this date.

These team option dates mess me up.

That ^ is the main reason I didn't like the trade for Marcus last season, even if was for just a second round pick. It had potential to boost both of their play and morale but there is no chance they would play together in the NBA for that long. They are still young and are not that used to the professional aspect of the NBA life so if the decision is made to cut one outright that could, most likely will, effect the other in negative way. Especially given that it would be during their rookie contract. If one is traded that would be easier to cope with for the remaining twin but if last season was any indication there isn't much of a market for either one considering we got Marcus with a second round pick and he only played worse here then he did in Houston. I don't think either of them has the chance to be a star but Markieff has shown that he could be a decent/good rotation player that could develop into a short term starter until we could get something better via free agency or the draft.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Neither Morris brother will ever be better than a 7th or 8th guy off the bench, and both appear to have hit their ceiling. I wouldn't waste any time or energy on them as a long term option.

 

[Mainstreet]

Unless they've changed the rule with the latest CBA, it's by October 31 a year in advance. So the decision on the third year has to be made before the start of the second.

I don't think the Suns are keen on keeping Marshall for a third season so unless he's traded, I don't see them picking up his third year option.

 

[Errntknght]

I don't think the Suns are keen on keeping Marshall for a third season so unless he's traded, I don't see them picking up his third year option.

They've got training camp and preseason games to help them decide how good he might be - it might make him more easily tradeable if they pick up his option. Heck, they might even decide he fits into their own plans though I'd guess he'd be better suited to a team that plays a more deliberate style. I could see him doing well on a team where the bigs post up a lot and they need a PG who can reliably feed them. Or on a team where the wings are slashers - of course a team could have both.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think the Suns would trade Marshall for a second round pick even if they never see it, just to move his salary.

 

[sunsfan88]

Keeping just one Morris would be disastrous. Either pick up both their options or let them both expire.

 

[Mainstreet]

Keeping just one Morris would be disastrous. Either pick up both their options or let them both expire.

I would look at a bundling discount or a bundling trade.

 

[elindholm]

Why does everyone assume that the brothers would be anguished to be split up? Being on different teams hasn't bothered the Lopezes. Has Markieff played any better since Marcus joined the Suns? Not that I've noticed.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Why does everyone assume that the brothers would be anguished to be split up? Being on different teams hasn't bothered the Lopezes. Has Markieff played any better since Marcus joined the Suns? Not that I've noticed.

Absolutely yes. They are not babies. In what other job anywhere would an employer feel obligated to hire brothers together just because they are twins. If they are this mentally weak and mutually dependent, we need to dump them, now. The fact that they now play on the same team is a novelty, nothing more.

 

[Superbone]

It's just a matter of time. The Morrii have yet to activate their Wonder Twin powers.