2021-22 Suns Depth Chart

[Hoop Head]

I'm not stressing over filling the open roster spot at least until the need becomes more pressing.

I brought it up as something to talk about. There was already a thread for it so I put it here.

What triggered my post is the linked photo. See below.

Seeing reserves Torrey Craig, Dario Saric and Cam Johnson in the photo made me ask, have the Suns replaced Torrey Craig?

I think it's more than a fair question because I don't think they have.

I believe the Suns have left a roster spot open to add a player that can contribute if one becomes available... whenever that may be. Again, I didn't mention it had to be now.

IMO, James Jones did this on purpose to take advantage of an opportunity if one becomes available.

What I wanted to talk about is who that player could be.

Phoenix Suns player grades from a big win over Miami

The Phoenix Suns bench owned the night and deserves the top-quality grades they're receiving as we evaluate all the Suns who played more than 10 minutes.

valleyofthesuns.com

That's fine if there's someone you think that can fill that role. The only name I'd be remotely interested that's out there is Patrick Patterson but even he's gotten up there in age so I'm not sure if he'd be the right fit. I'd prefer younger but wouldn't be mad at that signing. I suggested him the other day also.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I was trying to determine why you were bringing it up again. If there's someone you like then suggest them and we can discuss. The offseason is long and it sucks. We're stuck waiting without much to discuss right now

I believe you're similar to me in that you're a Suns fan first as far as you may have an NFL, MLB, and NHL team also but the Suns take priority as far as being the team and sport you're most interested in. So while the other sports are nice, they're not as savory as the Suns and the NBA. The offseason makes for a tough time of waiting, especially since we were spoiled last year with the bubble at this time and a very short offseason. Now that the Suns are good again and came so close to the top of the mountain, its hard to sit back and wait to see they'll bounce back. Hopefully they can reach the peak this time but until they start their training camp its just suffering through silence.

 

[Mainstreet]

That's fine if there's someone you think that can fill that role. The only name I'd be remotely interested that's out there is Patrick Patterson but even he's gotten up there in age so I'm not sure if he'd be the right fit. I'd prefer younger but wouldn't be mad at that signing. I suggested him the other day also.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I was trying to determine why you were bringing it up again. If there's someone you like then suggest them and we can discuss. The offseason is long and it sucks. We're stuck waiting without much to discuss right now

I believe you're similar to me in that you're a Suns fan first as far as you may have an NFL, MLB, and NHL team also but the Suns take priority as far as being the team and sport you're most interested in. So while the other sports are nice, they're not as savory as the Suns and the NBA. The offseason makes for a tough time of waiting, especially since we were spoiled last year with the bubble at this time and a very short offseason. Now that the Suns are good again and came so close to the top of the mountain, its hard to sit back and wait to see they'll bounce back. Hopefully they can reach the peak this time but until they start their training camp its just suffering through silence.

At the moment I'm waiting for someone to fall through the cracks in a trade or a team decides to buyout or waive a player. On my wish list is RFA Jared Vandebilt. I was hoping somehow he might shake free in a trade much like Craig. I've mentioned him before.

Also I was hoping that Thaddeus Young might be bought out later in the season. I haven't thought much about Patrick Patterson. He might be an option. Some think that Kevin Love will be bought out later and he might come here. It's mostly who becomes available and who James Jones thinks will fit. There are invariably some players that can contribute who get cut loose for one reason or another. The key is to be opportunistic.

 

[Hoop Head]

At the moment I'm waiting for someone to fall through the cracks in a trade or a team decides to buyout or waive a player. On my wish list is RFA Jared Vandebilt. I was hoping somehow he might shake free in a trade much like Craig. I've mentioned him before.

Also I was hoping that Thaddeus Young might be bought out later in the season. I haven't thought much about Patrick Patterson. He might be an option. Some think that Kevin Love will be bought out later and he might come here. It's mostly who becomes available and who James Jones thinks will fit. There are invariably some players that can contribute who get cut loose for one reason or another. The key is to be opportunistic.

I like Vanderbilt. Not a flashy signing but could be a solid addition.

I think the worst thing they could do right now is giving the final roster spot to Paul Millsap in that he's not getting better, he'll only get worse and he really doesn't offer much at this point. If we signed him in February, ok, because then I'm sure we've explored other avenues and tried to get someone better but it didn't pan out. Not that he's completely terrible but I think we can add someone of that quality midseason just as easily as now.

I view the flexibility as more valuable than a Paul Millsap type player at this stage. I'd rather see what happens then lock up all of our spots now.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I kinda don’t get the suns not signing him already.

Because he doesn't fit? Because he doesn't want to come here? Because he doesn't have much left? Probably one of those.

 

[Mainstreet]

Because he doesn't fit? Because he doesn't want to come here? Because he doesn't have much left? Probably one of those.

That covers a lot of ground.

Personally I think the Suns have their eye on someone else.

I suspect the Suns would have welcomed Millsap for the minimum.

 

[Mainstreet]

Training Camp will begin September 28th at the Suns new training facility. We might see some training camp deals down the road.

After watching summer league I hope they give FC Kyle Alexander an invite. On a two-way contract he could give the Suns some depth without the commitment to filling the final roster spot.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Because he doesn't fit? Because he doesn't want to come here? Because he doesn't have much left? Probably one of those.

I think fit would be wrong given the fact he can rebound and he can hit the three.

doesn’t want to be in az is of course an option, but it wouldn’t be for the old tired excuses of bad team, bad leadership, etc.

Doesn’t have much left is a possibility but his per 36 minutes didn’t really go down with his reduced minutes and they weren’t bad. Likely better than most available options at present.

and thank you for stating the obvious. I was wondering what the suns reasoning was and why. Not so much the obvious reasons that might exist.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is how Duane Rankin of the Arizona Republic sees the Suns roster:

Starters: PG Chris Paul, SG Devin Booker, SF Mikal Bridges, PF Jae Crowder, C Deandre Ayton.

Second unit: PG Cameron Payne, SG Landry Shamet, SF Cam Johnson, PF Jalen Smith, C JaVale McGee.

Remaining bench: PF Dario Saric (injured), PG Elfrid Payton, SF Abdel Nader, F/C Frank Kaminsky, SG Ty-Shon Alexander (two-way).

I'd say looking at that, power forward looks pretty anemic.

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www.azcentral.com

 

[SirStefan32]

Here is how Duane Rankin of the Arizona Republic sees the Suns roster:




I'd say looking at that, power forward looks pretty anemic.

Phoenix Suns step into life as the hunted after reaching NBA Finals. Here's how the West challengers will look

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While I do think the Suns could use a big PF, it's really not THAT big of a deal. Problem last year was what to do when Ayton sits. Suns had no length or athleticism behind him. With McGee... you can get away with Crowder and Cam J as PFs. When you have length, size, and athleticism behind Ayton, you are fine to go a little smaller at PF. Push comes to shove, you play Frank as a PF next to Ayton or McGee.

Again, I don't disagree that they could use a big PF, but it's not really as big of an issue as it was last year. Adding a legitimate backup Center improved the PF depth as well.

 

[Mainstreet]

While I do think the Suns could use a big PF, it's really not THAT big of a deal. Problem last year was what to do when Ayton sits. Suns had no length or athleticism behind him. With McGee... you can get away with Crowder and Cam J as PFs. When you have length, size, and athleticism behind Ayton, you are fine to go a little smaller at PF. Push comes to shove, you play Frank as a PF next to Ayton or McGee.

Again, I don't disagree that they could use a big PF, but it's not really as big of an issue as it was last year. Adding a legitimate backup Center improved the PF depth as well.

The potential problem I see is with the loss of Craig is the Suns have lost their ability to spread the court with quick small ball lineups. When they play a team like the Bucks, their big men can spread the court with a myriad of players. They can even play Giannis at center.

I don't see Cam Johnson being a small ball center. Last season the Suns tinkered with the idea of Abdel Nader filling this role. Although he has about the same weight as Craig he doesn't have as much height. There are nights the Suns will want to go small and quick but the loss of Craig has diminished this ability. The Suns ability to play quick aggressive defense along with outside shooting from bench players was a real plus last season.

 

[SirStefan32]

The potential problem I see is with the loss of Craig is the Suns have lost their ability to spread the court with quick small ball lineups. When they play a team like the Bucks, their big men can spread the court with a myriad of players. They can even play Giannis at center.

I don't see Cam Johnson being a small ball center. Last season the Suns tinkered with the idea of Abdel Nader filling this role. Although he has about the same weight as Craig he doesn't have as much height. There are nights the Suns will want to go small and quick but the loss of Craig has diminished this ability. The Suns ability to play quick aggressive defense along with outside shooting from bench players was a real plus last season.

Well that's a different issue. Ayton getting a big, athletic backup took care of the main issue they had. Small ball is a different issue but I don't see it as a major problem. I really like Craig, but there is nothing he can do that some combination of Crowder and Cam J can't do. Cam is a better shooter, Crowder is stronger. I am having trouble coming up with a realistic scenario in which a team goes super small, but too big for Crowder or Cam to handle. If Bucks go with Giannis at 5, you put an actual Center on him. If Lebron or KD are playing small ball fives, then Bridges and/or Crowder are your small ball Cs. I just can't come up with a scenario in which missing Craig is a major issue. The only time he was a small ball Center is when Ayton was on the bench against the Bucks. Against LA Clippers, he was on PG13 and he did a great job, but he wasn't exactly the small ball Center there. Again, I don't disagree with you that the Suns haven't replaced Craig, but they plugged a major hole at backup 5 while leaving a tiny hole at "small backup 5" by not replacing Craig. In my book, that's a pretty good trade-off.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well that's a different issue. Ayton getting a big, athletic backup took care of the main issue they had. Small ball is a different issue but I don't see it as a major problem. I really like Craig, but there is nothing he can do that some combination of Crowder and Cam J can't do. Cam is a better shooter, Crowder is stronger. I am having trouble coming up with a realistic scenario in which a team goes super small, but too big for Crowder or Cam to handle. If Bucks go with Giannis at 5, you put an actual Center on him. If Lebron or KD are playing small ball fives, then Bridges and/or Crowder are your small ball Cs. I just can't come up with a scenario in which missing Craig is a major issue. The only time he was a small ball Center is when Ayton was on the bench against the Bucks. Against LA Clippers, he was on PG13 and he did a great job, but he wasn't exactly the small ball Center there. Again, I don't disagree with you that the Suns haven't replaced Craig, but they plugged a major hole at backup 5 while leaving a tiny hole at "small backup 5" by not replacing Craig. In my book, that's a pretty good trade-off.

It's not just Craig but the Suns overall lack of height, weight and quickness at power forward that is going to be a problem. Small ball lineups are just part of it.

Another way to look at it, the Suns replaced the loss of two 4/5s (Saric and Craig) with only one big man in McGee. The lack of size was already an issue with the Suns last season.

The Suns small forwards and centers are not not going to be able to guard athletic power forwards. At least Craig gave the Suns a quick athletic 4/5 off the bench. In the Finals, not being able to guard Bobby Portis was a prime example. The Suns are less ready to guard him now.

Cam Johnson can play power forward on occasion but he is really a small forward and Jalen Smith does not show much sign of being ready.

As I look at it now, the Suns strength at other positions (point guard, shooting guard, small forward and center) is going to have to compensate for their weakness at power forward. There simply wasn't enough money left over in free agency to properly address the problem.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's not just Craig but the Suns overall lack of height, weight and quickness at power forward that is going to be a problem. Small ball lineups are just part of it.

Another way to look at it, the Suns replaced the loss of two 4/5s (Saric and Craig) with only one big man in McGee. The lack of size was already an issue with the Suns last season.

The Suns small forwards and centers are not not going to be able to guard athletic power forwards. At least Craig gave the Suns a quick athletic 4/5 off the bench. In the Finals, not being able to guard Bobby Portis was a prime example. The Suns are less ready to guard him now.

Cam Johnson can play power forward on occasion but he is really a small forward and Jalen Smith does not show much sign of being ready.

As I look at it now, the Suns strength at other positions (point guard, shooting guard, small forward and center) is going to have to compensate for their weakness at power forward. There simply wasn't enough money left over in free agency to properly address the problem.

But that’s pretty common. Very few, if any, complete teams. All teams have to compensate for shortcomings at one (usually more) position(s) with better play at others. I’d say we are the rare team that only likely finds itself at a disadvantage at a single position, even at depth.

 

[SirStefan32]

It's not just Craig but the Suns overall lack of height, weight and quickness at power forward that is going to be a problem. Small ball lineups are just part of it.

Another way to look at it, the Suns replaced the loss of two 4/5s (Saric and Craig) with only one big man in McGee. The lack of size was already an issue with the Suns last season.

The Suns small forwards and centers are not not going to be able to guard athletic power forwards. At least Craig gave the Suns a quick athletic 4/5 off the bench. In the Finals, not being able to guard Bobby Portis was a prime example. The Suns are less ready to guard him now.

Cam Johnson can play power forward on occasion but he is really a small forward and Jalen Smith does not show much sign of being ready.

As I look at it now, the Suns strength at other positions (point guard, shooting guard, small forward and center) is going to have to compensate for their weakness at power forward. There simply wasn't enough money left over in free agency to properly address the problem.

I am trying to think of an example, but I am coming up short. Who do you have in mind that Centers and Small Forwards would not be able to guard? I am only coming up with guys like Durant, LeBron, Giannis... all of which cannot really be guarded by anyone, but Ayton, Crowder, Bridges do as good of a job as anyone can possibly do.

In general though, there is no "complete" team that has every option for every single situation.

 

[Yuma]

During the season going small when Ayton went out wasn't a problem. Against the Bucks they figured out to put their three bigs in, and we could not match up. As soon as we doubled Giannis, he would pass out and a big would seem to always be open on a roll to the basket. So we do need size. So Mcgee gives us that height on back up center so we have a shot blocker in when Ayton goes out. Ideally at Stix height, he develops so we can mitigate the Torrey Craig loss. At some point you have to play Stix to see what you have. That will be the first half of the season, before trade deadline and people getting waived, etc.

 

[Mainstreet]

I am trying to think of an example, but I am coming up short. Who do you have in mind that Centers and Small Forwards would not be able to guard? I am only coming up with guys like Durant, LeBron, Giannis... all of which cannot really be guarded by anyone, but Ayton, Crowder, Bridges do as good of a job as anyone can possibly do.

In general though, there is no "complete" team that has every option for every single situation.

There are a bunch. It can vary on a given night but here are a few: Anthony Davis, Bobby Portis, Pascal Siakam, Jerami Grant, Zion Williamson and Blake Griffin.

The bigger problem is a team like the Bucks can go really big with multiple players like Brooks, Portis and Giannis. Too often Ayton was the primary defender in the middle and susceptible to getting in foul trouble.

Every team is going to have weaknesses but every effort should be made to strengthen those weaknesses.

On the positive side, I think the Suns realize where they are the most vulnerable and plan to fix it.

 

[Mainstreet]

During the season going small when Ayton went out wasn't a problem. Against the Bucks they figured out to put their three bigs in, and we could not match up. As soon as we doubled Giannis, he would pass out and a big would seem to always be open on a roll to the basket. So we do need size. So Mcgee gives us that height on back up center so we have a shot blocker in when Ayton goes out. Ideally at Stix height, he develops so we can mitigate the Torrey Craig loss. At some point you have to play Stix to see what you have. That will be the first half of the season, before trade deadline and people getting waived, etc.

This is the wild card. I think James Jones thought Stix could play last season but he wasn't ready. If Stix develops he is perfect to play backup power forward or small ball center.

 

[Yuma]

This is the wild card. I think James Jones thought Stix could play last season but he wasn't ready. If Stix develops he is perfect to play backup power forward or small ball center.

Also, with more pounds and strength, Cameron Johnson could be a PF in today's NBA. However, you want that 6'10" Jalen Smith height, if legit.

 

[Mainstreet]

Also, with more pounds and strength, Cameron Johnson could be a PF in today's NBA. However, you want that 6'10" Jalen Smith height, if legit.

I view Cam Johnson as a situational backup power forward but a much better backup small forward.

Jalen Smith turning into a rotation power forward would be icing on the cake. Big, athletic players that can play inside and shoot outside are hard to find.

 

[AzStevenCal]

During the season going small when Ayton went out wasn't a problem. Against the Bucks they figured out to put their three bigs in, and we could not match up. As soon as we doubled Giannis, he would pass out and a big would seem to always be open on a roll to the basket. So we do need size. So Mcgee gives us that height on back up center so we have a shot blocker in when Ayton goes out. Ideally at Stix height, he develops so we can mitigate the Torrey Craig loss. At some point you have to play Stix to see what you have. That will be the first half of the season, before trade deadline and people getting waived, etc.

I disagree. Well, sort of. Yes, that's what happened but it worked because our strength had been negated by injuries.

If Payne hadn't sprained his ankle and if Chris hadn't injured his shoulder, wrist and finger and if Booker hadn't tweaked his hamstring, we would have made them pay for going big just like we did during the season. Losing Saric made us even more vulnerable but having our guards limited by injury was the real killer.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Wow Worried about a 3rd string PF are we. Just think 5 years ago Stix would have been starting.

 

[Covert Rain]

Also, with more pounds and strength, Cameron Johnson could be a PF in today's NBA. However, you want that 6'10" Jalen Smith height, if legit.

Cam's game is predicated on his ability to move. Him getting "bulky" to play the PF position wouldn't be a good idea.

 

[Hoop Head]

I disagree. Well, sort of. Yes, that's what happened but it worked because our strength had been negated by injuries.

If Payne hadn't sprained his ankle and if Chris hadn't injured his shoulder, wrist and finger and if Booker hadn't tweaked his hamstring, we would have made them pay for going big just like we did during the season. Losing Saric made us even more vulnerable but having our guards limited by injury was the real killer.

We won 4 games in a row against the Bucks before losing to them 4 in a row while we were beat up. I'm not making excuses for those losses, they happened but I can't see that happening again because its unlikely all of our guards are injured at the same time again. Also Ayton won't need to worry about foul trouble as much since he has a competent backup.

 

[Hoop Head]

Cam's game is predicated on his ability to move. Him getting "bulky" to play the PF position wouldn't be a good idea.

He doesnt need to get bulky. He was solid as a small ball PF in the bubble during his rookie year. He needs to get back to that. He's a smart player also and I believe he'll find ways to continue to be effective in whatever role is asked of him.

 

[Mainstreet]

Cam's game is predicated on his ability to move. Him getting "bulky" to play the PF position wouldn't be a good idea.

I think Cam Johnson is a natural small forward at 6'8" and 210 pounds. He added 10+ pounds in the summer of 2020 but I don't think he was able to keep it on. IMO, asking him to play backup power on a regular basis is asking too much.