Putting it on the board-Keim&Wilks will be fired in 3 years

[Cbus cardsfan]

Honest question. If they have the chance to pull up up a few spots and get Mayfield or Rosen do you do it?

If not who do you target, realistically?

I would for Rosen. Although my buddy after the combine said Rosen was very talented(the most talented after Darnold) but also was a knucklehead.

 

[Solar7]

Honest question. If they have the chance to pull up up a few spots and get Mayfield or Rosen do you do it?

If not who do you target, realistically?

I'll trade into picks 7-14 for those two, but not any higher. I really want to avoid giving up next year's first at all costs.

EDIT: But I'm getting more and more sold on the idea of staying at 15 and just taking Jackson.

 

[Chopper0080]

Honest question. If they have the chance to pull up up a few spots and get Mayfield or Rosen do you do it?

If not who do you target, realistically?

If you can get one of the top 4...you HAVE TO. Rosen injury issues causes me pause, but we have now backed ourselves into a corner with few options out of it.

 

[Chopper0080]

For those who want Lamar Jackson...what makes you think his development will be aided by an injury prone vet QB, Mike McCoy, a bad offensive line, a retired Larry Fitzgerald in 2019, and the first time, defensive minded Steve Wilks?

Honestly, how is that a conducive environment to grow a very RAW QB.

 

[unseenaz]

i'm beginning to think Keim is a poser who had a good run with the help of BA. he may also be suffering from paralysis by over analysis.

 

[Solar7]

For those who want Lamar Jackson...what makes you think his development will be aided by an injury prone vet QB, Mike McCoy, a bad offensive line, a retired Larry Fitzgerald in 2019, and the first time, defensive minded Steve Wilks?

Honestly, how is that a conducive environment to grow a very RAW QB.

I'm not as down on Mike McCoy as you are. I think he did an admirable job of squeezing whatever he could out of Tebow for a season, he made Kyle Orton look like an All-Pro, he helped resurrect Rivers (I know, some of that is Whisenhunt, but I'm not going to give McCoy zero credit), and I think he got put into a crap situation at QB in Denver last year.

Bradford isn't there to teach Lamar Jackson how to throw the ball or move his feet. He's there to provide an example of how to prepare, how to lead, and how to learn an offense and look at things on the field. Bradford has been in multiple offensive systems, he's probably a better mentor than just about any vet QB that was available outside of McCown.

I also don't think the offensive line is as bad as you think it is - we didn't play a single game with our projected starting lineup. With those players healthy and cohesive, we'll have a better line.

Finally, yeah, we need to find the future at WR. But let's be honest about Jackson - he has more potential than any other QB that's going to be available at 15. Rudolph, Lauletta, and Falk are really our other options past Jackson. I'd rather swing for the home run on a guy that can be Vick 2.0 than draft the next Kyle Boller.

 

[Chopper0080]

Ok. If the plan was to rebuild, I don't have an issue with that. But do not do the following things...

1-Say we will be aggressive in targeting a QB and that we are committing to winning.
2-Don't spend 15 mil on a vet WR for one year.
3-Don't spend 20 mil in two short term, vet QBs.
4-Don't say that we are going to fix the offensive line, and then just cut the few players you have on it.
5-Don't stand pat when you have valuable assets to trade and set yourself up at QB. IE why are Patrick Peterson and David Johnson not on the trading block?

 

[oaken1]

For those who want Lamar Jackson...what makes you think his development will be aided by an injury prone vet QB, Mike McCoy, a bad offensive line, a retired Larry Fitzgerald in 2019, and the first time, defensive minded Steve Wilks?

Honestly, how is that a conducive environment to grow a very RAW QB.

I think that VR system would help a lot... it takes live reps and from all reports that is fairly close to live reps. granted...limitations.

Tony Dungy was a defensive HC... Manning did okay..... Riviera is a defensive HC... Cam is doing okay..... the oline coach we have now is better than the oline coach we had last year. That will make a difference on its own...and our guys would not have sucked had the starters stayed healthy... big IF, yeah... but we dont need "huge" changes in personnel there... just a couple young guys

also would not discount Byron Leftwich... coaches make careers based on developing players, and QB's more than most.. look at BA, everyone calls him a QB whisperer.... but it could also be said he was just lucky enough to have a couple HoF type QB's fall in his lap... did he "develop" Manning? Rothlisberger? Luck? Or did the kids talent take over?.... Granted Leftwich has done nothing yet... but talk of him being a coach some day was going around six months after he was drafted.. maybe his coaching "Legend" starts with the rookie we draft this year.

for anyone who remembers... Drew Brees wasnt all that good until he hired a private coach in the off season. coaches can make a difference.

also. Dont discount the possibility that Glennon is only a safety net. we need camp bodies. He provides an adequate backup in the event the draft does not work out for us. But if we get the QB we want, Glennon can be cut when we drop to the final 53...giving the rook all the backup reps and extra time with the coaches..... Glennon can also be the #3

 

[Cheesebeef]

I would for Rosen. Although my buddy after the combine said Rosen was very talented(the most talented after Darnold) but also was a knucklehead.

I like Rosen's tools too, but have there been a lot of great QBs who everyone universally thinks is a douchebag? I'm trying to think off the top of my head... guys who were headcases in college that ended up becoming great NFL QBs?

 

[Chopper0080]

I like Rosen's tools too, but have there been a lot of great QBs who everyone universally thinks is a douchebag? I'm trying to think off the top of my head... guys who were headcases in college that ended up becoming great NFL QBs?

Aaron Rodgers is a dick. And he is pretty good at QB.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Aaron Rodgers is a dick. And he is pretty good at QB.

true... but was he considered a head-case in college? I thought he dropped because people thought Tedford was only producing system QBs.

 

[oaken1]

Ok. If the plan was to rebuild, I don't have an issue with that. But do not do the following things...

1-Say we will be aggressive in targeting a QB and that we are committing to winning.
2-Don't spend 15 mil on a vet WR for one year.
3-Don't spend 20 mil in two short term, vet QBs.
4-Don't say that we are going to fix the offensive line, and then just cut the few players you have on it.
5-Don't stand pat when you have valuable assets to trade and set yourself up at QB. IE why are Patrick Peterson and David Johnson not on the trading block?

lol... I brought up that PP21 trade a few months back and got called names... but he is the logical choice... as a "Franchise" player at a position of value he is likely worth the #1 pick....and cleveland would make that deal since they are close to having their secondary finished...
I wouldnt trade Johnson though... RB's have less trade value and he would help the rookie QB way too much...and the kid would need help so he doesnt get ruined

that trade would require that he be traded straight up for the pick though...and we keep 15 as well...maybe throw in a 3 with him... guys like him are so hard to find.. but with Jones, Golden, and Reddick...and even a small improvement from Nkemdiche... our pass rush will be far superior in 2018 to what it was last season...

 

[Chopper0080]

There is a reason he says the name of his Jr College team when they do the intros. He hated that Cal passed him up early, and then never gives then credit for taking him on as a JUCO transfer.

 

[Chopper0080]

lol... I brought up that PP21 trade a few months back and got called names... but he is the logical choice... as a "Franchise" player at a position of value he is likely worth the #1 pick....and cleveland would make that deal since they are close to having their secondary finished...
I wouldnt trade Johnson though... RB's have less trade value and he would help the rookie QB way too much...and the kid would need help so he doesnt get ruined

that trade would require that he be traded straight up for the pick though...and we keep 15 as well...maybe throw in a 3 with him... guys like him are so hard to find.. but with Jones, Golden, and Reddick...and even a small improvement from Nkemdiche... our pass rush will be far superior in 2018 to what it was last season...

Golden is coming off an injury and Reddick has shown nothing. Don't count on them for anything.

 

[oaken1]

Golden is coming off an injury and Reddick has shown nothing. Don't count on them for anything.

the "hope" i have there is based on..
1. Goldens entire career is based on work ethic and hustle..he will work his way back.

2. Reddick was actually starting to show improvement at ILB...before Golden got hurt and they moved him outside. The kid will be okay, they just need to put him at a spot and leave him alone so he can learn to play pro ball

if anything, they should cut Deone and put Reddick in his spot, but they will probably be playing side by side this season

 

[Chopper0080]

the "hope" i have there is based on..
1. Goldens entire career is based on work ethic and hustle..he will work his way back.

2. Reddick was actually starting to show improvement at ILB...before Golden got hurt and they moved him outside. The kid will be okay, they just need to put him at a spot and leave him alone so he can learn to play pro ball

if anything, they should cut Deone and put Reddick in his spot, but they will probably be playing side by side this season

We aren't running that defense anymore.

An unathletic Golden isn't going to be more athletic after surgery.

 

[kerouac9]

For those who want Lamar Jackson...what makes you think his development will be aided by an injury prone vet QB, Mike McCoy, a bad offensive line, a retired Larry Fitzgerald in 2019, and the first time, defensive minded Steve Wilks?

Honestly, how is that a conducive environment to grow a very RAW QB.

Didn't Jackson play three seasons in college? He has more experience than Sam Darnold, right? He has like 60 fewer passing attempts than Baker Mayfield had at Oklahoma. He has 200 fewer passing attempts than Deshaun Watson did coming out.

I like Rosen's tools too, but have there been a lot of great QBs who everyone universally thinks is a douchebag? I'm trying to think off the top of my head... guys who were headcases in college that ended up becoming great NFL QBs?

Do his teammates think he's a D-bag? That's the difference, to me. The entire Broncos organization thought that Cutler was a difficult personality. I think that Phil Rivers is no fun to play against, but his teammates seem to be down with him.

 

[Chopper0080]

Didn't Jackson play three seasons in college? He has more experience than Sam Darnold, right? He has like 60 fewer passing attempts than Baker Mayfield had at Oklahoma. He has 200 fewer passing attempts than Deshaun Watson did coming out.



Do his teammates think he's a D-bag? That's the difference, to me. The entire Broncos organization thought that Cutler was a difficult personality. I think that Phil Rivers is no fun to play against, but his teammates seem to be down with him.

Jackson as a passer is SUPER raw. He doesn't go through progressions as much as he sees color and whips the ball. His accuracy isn't Allen bad, but it is more of an issue than is talked about. I'm not saying he can't be successful in the NFL, but I don't know that AZ is the right environment.

 

[Buckybird]

I'll trade into picks 7-14 for those two, but not any higher. I really want to avoid giving up next year's first at all costs.

EDIT: But I'm getting more and more sold on the idea of staying at 15 and just taking Jackson.

Identify your QB you like & go get him! “Settling” for a guy as you suggest (with LJ) is how mistakes are made at QB in the first round particularly by overdrafting out of necessity.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

3 years? 3 more years? I won't last that long. Maybe 2 or 3 months. Tops.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Glad I'm not the only one who's baffled.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...-biggest-questions-2018-nfl-free-agency-day-1

Baffling questions in Arizona

Arizona Cardinals general manager Steve Keim has a lot of fans around the NFL who respect his work in digging the franchise out of a decadeslong competitive hole. But I'm having a hard time understanding what he and the franchise are doing this offseason or how in the world the Cardinals will be competitive in 2018.

It doesn't take a football savant to question the team's plan at quarterback. There is no basis for counting on Sam Bradford, who aggravated his knee condition by taking a bad step in Week 1 last season and played only two quarters thereafter. Mike Glennon, meanwhile, bombed last season with the Bears in his best chance to establish himself as even a spot starter.

What does the agreement with Bradford, and the Cardinals' reported plans to also sign Glennon tell us? They better not be done looking for quarterbacks.

But the most egregious gaffe, and one that I don't think has generated enough national scrutiny, is the departure of safety Tyrann Mathieu. As a rule, NFL teams should never let themselves get into the position of parting ways with their best young talent. Mathieu has an injury history, but he rebounded last season to play 16 games. He is still 25 years old and is probably one of the Cardinals' three best players.

ESPN's Cardinals reporter Josh Weinfuss noted that the Cardinals were in a tough situation with the monster contract Mathieu signed in 2016. If that's the case, then it's still on the team for writing a contract that couldn't sustain itself for two years. Maybe there's something we don't know about Mathieu's health. But if we have the complete information, well, the Cardinals botched their future with a transcendent player.