Q at PF

[George O'Brien]

It is generally believed that Marion will play PF in the small ball lineup, since that's the way it has worked in the past. I suspect that it will be Q.

On offense, Q's game is much better suited to PF than Marion. Q likes to score in close and really battles for rebounds. Some people say that this is because he is bigger than most SG's and can post them up, but he was doing it in an area where big men hang out. Q is quicker than most PF's and more physical than Marion. If Marion can play PF on offense, then Q should be able to do it as well or better.

On defense, Q is listed as about an inch shorter than Marion but about five pounds heaiver. From all reports he is a lot stronger than Marion and like Marion is a great leaper. More important, he seems more comfortable mixing it up in the paint than Marion. That will not make him a great defender, but he seems likely to do at least as well as Marion.

On the surface, having a 6'6" power forward is crazy. But last season Q averaged 6.6 rpg as a guard, which is better than most inside guys. While I would prefer a much taller guy; having strength, toughness, quickness, and leaping ability can compensate for a lot.

 

[cepstrum]

I remember that this was discussed in another thread, and I would have to agree with it. It is sad that it has gotten down to this, but I think that it is worth at least trying to put Q in at PF and seeing how it goes.

I haven't really seen Q play much so I cant say much about his defensive skills, but from what I hear, they arent very good. Is that because he isnt quick enough to keep up with guards because of his heavy build or is there some other reason? If the case is that he isn't quick enough, maybe putting him up against smaller 4's on defense isn't a bad idea since most 4's arent that quick anyways. I guess it's tough to say its not a bad idea to put a guy listed at 6'5 at PF, but this is what we have to work with.

 

[George O'Brien]

I remember that this was discussed in another thread, and I would have to agree with it. It is sad that it has gotten down to this, but I think that it is worth at least trying to put Q in at PF and seeing how it goes.

I haven't really seen Q play much so I cant say much about his defensive skills, but from what I hear, they arent very good. Is that because he isnt quick enough to keep up with guards because of his heavy build or is there some other reason? If the case is that he isn't quick enough, maybe putting him up against smaller 4's on defense isn't a bad idea since most 4's arent that quick anyways. I guess it's tough to say its not a bad idea to put a guy listed at 6'5 at PF, but this is what we have to work with.

It is hard to figure out why some guys are better at defense than others. Turkoglu was considered to be a defensive liability with the Kings and very good on defense with the Spurs. With Q, it is hard to tell because the Clippers were a bad team and no one really played defense.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

first, q is really 6'5. maybe even a shade under. he's extremely strong. he averaged 10 boards a game at depaul. and he's not a great leaper. he's an okay leaper. nowhere near marion's class as a leaper. i suppose we could get away with him playing minutes down low ala adrian dantley, but do not think for a second that it wouldn't be a tremendous mismatch against legit power forwards. he could d up a guy like corliss williamson or malik rose pretty nicely though.

 

[elindholm]

If the lineup is Stoudemire, Marion, Johnson, Richardson, and Nash, I don't care who is theoretically playing which position. You can call Richardson the PF or Stoudemire the C or Marion the PG for all I care. That is a pipsqueak lineup and they are going to get crushed inside and on the boards. Period.

 

[slinslin]

first, q is really 6'5. maybe even a shade under. he's extremely strong. he averaged 10 boards a game at depaul. and he's not a great leaper. he's an okay leaper. nowhere near marion's class as a leaper. i suppose we could get away with him playing minutes down low ala adrian dantley, but do not think for a second that it wouldn't be a tremendous mismatch against legit power forwards. he could d up a guy like corliss williamson or malik rose pretty nicely though.

No he is not.

Q measured in at 6'6 1/4 in shoes and 6'5 1/2 without shoes before he was drafted in Chicago.

I am pretty sure Caron Butler measured in the same or less without shoes but is listed at 6'7 with shoes.

http://www.thehrr.com/nba/draft2000/chicago2.PDF

Q also has a 7' 1/2 wingspan which is about the same as Amare and not even a couple inches less than Przybilla.

 

[Yuma]

Just for argument, isn't JJ bigger than Q? Why wouldn't he be the PF?

 

[Biclops]

Just for argument, isn't JJ bigger than Q? Why wouldn't he be the PF?

JJ (6'8) might be bigger than Q (6'6) but I think Q has more bulk and strength to guard PF

His 7' 1/2 wingspan does not hurt at all too

But truth be told I do not want Q / JJ / Marion to play PF at all (although I know its easier said then done)

Hopefully Z gains enough weight to back up Amare

 

[NJYAJ09]

JJ (6'8) might be bigger than Q (6'6) but I think Q has more bulk and strength to guard PF

His 7' 1/2 wingspan does not hurt at all too

But truth be told I do not want Q / JJ / Marion to play PF at all (although I know its easier said then done)

Hopefully Z gains enough weight to back up Amare

point blank Amare will be our PF.

Not Q, JJ, Marion, or Eisley.

 

[cepstrum]

point blank Amare will be our PF.

Not Q, JJ, Marion, or Eisley.

amare cant play 48.

 

[NJYAJ09]

amare cant play 48.

Duh. Amare will get most of the minutes with Vroman and Lampe getting some time @ PF.

 

[cepstrum]

Duh. Amare will get most of the minutes with Vroman and Lampe getting some time @ PF.

Judging from summer league play, vroman isnt ready to contribute yet. As far as lampe goes, everything depends on how he progresses. Whichever way you look at it, if the roster stays as is, either shawn or Q or someone else IS DEFINETLY going to see time at the 4. No way around it.

 

[George O'Brien]

Judging from summer league play, vroman isnt ready to contribute yet. As far as lampe goes, everything depends on how he progresses. Whichever way you look at it, if the roster stays as is, either shawn or Q or someone else IS DEFINETLY going to see time at the 4. No way around it.

That was my main point. The Suns WILL play at least some small ball because their best players are small. I think most of us hope it is no more than eight to ten minutes a game, or the Suns are going to be in serious trouble.

My only question is whether Marion should be the inside guy or Q. JJ, Shawn, and Q are really close in heigth. All can rebound and all are pretty athletic. However, Q appears to be the heaviest, the strongest, and guy who most likes playing close to the basket.

 

[NJYAJ09]

That was my main point. The Suns WILL play at least some small ball because their best players are small. I think most of us hope it is no more than eight to ten minutes a game, or the Suns are going to be in serious trouble.

My only question is whether Marion should be the inside guy or Q. JJ, Shawn, and Q are really close in heigth. All can rebound and all are pretty athletic. However, Q appears to be the heaviest, the strongest, and guy who most likes playing close to the basket.

Q appears that way because he is stronger and heavier then most SG's when they match up. Richardson should not play a lick of the time @ PF at all this year. Give the time to Lampe.

 

[Joe Mama]

Q appears that way because he is stronger and heavier then most SG's when they match up. Richardson should not play a lick of the time @ PF at all this year. Give the time to Lampe.

going small sometimes is part of the game. Almost every team in the NBA does it at some point. They do it because it works. Most of us are just hoping that the Phoenix Suns don't have to do it too much because it doesn't generally work for long stretches.

Of course Quentin Richardson isn't a power forward. Every one of us knows that. But the Suns will pull their best five players on the court for stretches of the games. It's going to happen. And it's going to leave one of these guys who is not a power forward guarding the other team's power forward. It's going to happen, so a part of this thread was to ask who would be best to do this.

I still say it's Shawn Marion. Of course I haven't seen Q guard a power forward.

BTW I wouldn't be surprised if Shawn Marion is every bit as competent guarding power forwards as Lampe is at this point. Hopefully that changes.

 

[elindholm]

For this discussion to have any point, we need to establish how we decide who the PF is. Is it the player who posts up the most on offense? The one who guards the other team's PF? The one who goes after the defensive rebound instead of releasing on the break?

I'm just curious what everyone thinks their definition of the position is.

 

[PhxGametime]

IMO Marion with shot-blocking ability at PF. Q can post up SG's with ease (I've now seen 10 Suns/Clippers games and JJ is only Suns player that Q had trouble posting: Marion, Hardaway, Majerle, Jacobsen, etc all couldn't guard Q). JJ with size, ballhandling, and passing would be a nice fit at SF - although all 3 could switch on defense.

PG - Nash, Barbosa, JJ, Eisley
SG - JJ, Q, Barbosa, Jacobsen
SF - Marion, JJ, Q, Cabarkapa, Jacobsen
PF - Amare, Lampe, Cabarkapa, Vroman, Marion
C - Voskuhl, Lampe, Amare, ????

I hope Suns add a Center quick. Deep at PG/SG/SF/PF.

 

[BC867]

I hope Suns add a Center quick. Deep at PG/SG/SF/PF.

This, the 17th post on this thread, identifies whether the previous 16 will be an issue during the season -- which Guard will be playing Power Forward, when the game is on the line.

As BbaLL_31 inferred, the best answer for the Suns success would be none.

 

[SirStefan32]

Clippers were a bad team and no one really played defense.

And the Suns play defense?

 

[Chaz]

And the Suns play defense?

Sometimes!!

 

[George O'Brien]

And the Suns play defense?

Every third Tuesday...

The Suns defense started to improve late in the season, but they have a long way to go. My guess is that the Suns will move toward more man defense along with greater use of the matchup zone. They will still used the trap when they go small, but probably not as much with a bigger lineup.

I know this sounds like a broken record, but I have always felt the trap was a big part of the reason the Suns defense tended to look so bad. It was crazy trying to run a trap while playing guys 40 plus minutes. Unfortunately, the purpose of the Sun's trap was to create turnovers and fast break points, but risked giving up a lot of easy baskets.

Changing scheme won't make the players better individual defenders, but it will give them a better chance of being successful than overusing the scramble.

 

[Chaz]

Every third Tuesday...

The Suns defense started to improve late in the season, but they have a long way to go. My guess is that the Suns will move toward more man defense along with greater use of the matchup zone. They will still used the trap when they go small, but probably not as much with a bigger lineup.

I know this sounds like a broken record, but I have always felt the trap was a big part of the reason the Suns defense tended to look so bad. It was crazy trying to run a trap while playing guys 40 plus minutes. Unfortunately, the purpose of the Sun's trap was to create turnovers and fast break points, but risked giving up a lot of easy baskets.

Changing scheme won't make the players better individual defenders, but it will give them a better chance of being successful than overusing the scramble.

In fact they played very good defense for stretches last season. It was the consistancy and some size inside that was the problem. Sounds like at least one of those still will be a problem.

 

[elindholm]

For this discussion to have any point, we need to establish how we decide who the PF is. Is it the player who posts up the most on offense? The one who guards the other team's PF? The one who goes after the defensive rebound instead of releasing on the break?

I'm just curious what everyone thinks their definition of the position is.

Is there a reason no one has addressed this?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Is there a reason no one has addressed this?

i actually think that's a great idea. personally, i think the position only matters on the defensive end as that's where we might get taken advantage of.

 

[PhxGametime]

I agree - I would consider defensive match-up as a PF. There are PG's that post and they'd never be considered PF's. I'd asume players closest to rebounding position would handle that area (rebounding), there have been centers releasing in transition and in skill ball - as many rebounders as possible around ball would make me happier. Marion, JJ, and Richardson can all rebound.