QB? How?

[NashDishesDimes]

After the poll i took in here a few days ago concerning what you guys would like to do with the #1 pick, Almost 30% wanted Miller, and 17% Peterson. Only 24% of us thought the Cardinals should take a QB with the first pick (Gabbert and Newton). 10% thought we should move the pick to Cinci or Philly for Palmer or Kolb. That means only 34% wanted to use the 1st rounder to bring in a QB of some sort.

I ask what the other 66% of you guys plan on doing about the QB position? What happends when Kolb is gone? Some team in the middle to late part of the 1st round will trade their pick for him. Now what? Palmer? will he even end up leaving? what if San Fran offers something better than the Cards are willing to? What are the possibilites left? McNabb? Bulger? . Even if they get one of these two guys then the Cards will have to draft a QB in the first next year or the year after? Whose to say there will be a better option in the draft at QB for the Cards next year?

My point is that everyone seems to assume the Cards will end up with Kolb or some fictitious franchise QB through FA. The Cards arent the only team that needs a QB and they definitley arent the type of front office that will win a bidding war with other clubs. Realistically, the Cards dont end up with Kolb or Palmer and they jump into the season with somebody like Bulger behind center? But atleast we got Patrick Peterson right?!? haha, im not willing to watch another season like last season.

They need a QB with the first pick or trade it for Kolb with some sort of 2nd or 3rd rounder in return. They can find pass rushers and solid LBs in the 2nd round. They have a high 2nd round pick, theres no reason they cant get an impact OLB with that pick. I dont even know why we assume Schoefield is not an answer at OLB?

The only way i see things working out well if the Cards take Milller/Peterson with the first is if there is no new CBA before the draft and Philly decides they will take a 2012 1st rounder for Kolb.

Whats the plan y'all??

 

[Pariah]

My point is that everyone seems to assume the Cards will end up with Kolb for some reason.

huh?

That's a pretty big leap. I'd bet a very small percentage of us think the Cards will end up with Kolb. I certainly don't think we will.

 

[DoTheDew]

What happends when Kolb is gone? Some team in the middle to late part of the 1st round will trade their pick for him. Now what? Palmer? will he even end up leaving?

Many of us don't want Kolb at all. Personally I think Skelton is as likely to be a long term answer as Kevin "I haven't proven crap yet" Kolb.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

Pariah: I dont think the Cards will end up with Kolb either, thats exactly my point. But it seems like people are thinking theres some sort of answer in FA..

DoTheDew: Skelton brotha? So the plan is Skelton? But atleast we got Peterson right!?!

 

[ajcardfan]

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Kolb get traded for a 2nd or 3rd round pick this season. So, there you go.

 

[Solar7]

I don't want us to pick a QB in the first because I don't like anyone that is available. I'd prefer not trading the fifth pick for Kolb, because that's an awfully high price, but as of right now, we can't trade it away anyways.

My hope is that something will change, and making a trade for Kolb or Palmer can happen. Otherwise it might have to be Gabbert.

 

[DoTheDew]

Pariah: I dont think the Cards will end up with Kolb either, thats exactly my point. But it seems like people are thinking theres some sort of answer in FA..

DoTheDew: Skelton brotha? So the plan is Skelton? But atleast we got Peterson right!?!

I don't really want Skelton as our guy but Kolb is not the answer IMO. Palmer would be ok if we can have him. Drafting a guy is worth the risk. If that isn't possible we might have to wait until 2012 and hope to get Luck(y). Sometimes the answer isn't out there every off-season.

Even if we did want Kolb, we currently can't trade for him and its looking likely that we won't be able to do so until after the draft. Lack of a CBA really screws us.

 

[joeshmo]

I think you are making the wrong conclusion from your poll.

People didnt pick a QB in your poll not because they think we are fine at QB and not because they think Kolb is in the bag, they didnt pick a QB becuase they dont like any of the QB prospects.

People dont want to take a QB just to take one. They want to take a QB because they think that QB will fit and will be good for us. If people dont think Gabbert or Newton will work out for us why would they pick them in your poll, just becuase we need one?

If people in their own minds had the same grade for Gabbert/Newton compared to Peterson/Miller, they would have selected QB without a doubt in my mind.

 

[Pariah]

Pariah: I dont think the Cards will end up with Kolb either, thats exactly my point. But it seems like people are thinking theres some sort of answer in FA..

I don't think you're understanding me. I know you don't think we'll end up with Kolb--my point is that there probably isn't more than a handful of people on the board that think we will either.

Sure, maybe there are more that WANT him, but that's not the same thing.

 

[cardpa]

Let's face it this is all messed up without a CBA. If and when the deal gets done will have a lot to do with what happens QB wise. You could see a shortened pre-season with only one or two games and then go right into the regular season.

Teams other than ourselves will be scrambling and then how FA is restructured will impact who goes where. Roster cuts will also be a factor as we all know the last time there was a work stoppage when things finally got going again there were some surprise cuts.

There could even be some budget casualties out of all this. What the Cardinals really need to ask themselves is how sure they feel they can get a veteran QB after the dust settles.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

I think you are making the wrong conclusion from your poll.

People didnt pick a QB in your poll not because they think we are fine at QB and not because they think Kolb is in the bag, they didnt pick a QB becuase they dont like any of the QB prospects.

People dont want to take a QB just to take one. They want to take a QB because they think that QB will fit and will be good for us. If people dont think Gabbert or Newton will work out for us why would they pick them in your poll, just becuase we need one?

If people in their own minds had the same grade for Gabbert/Newton compared to Peterson/Miller, they would have selected QB without a doubt in my mind.

The point im trying to make is that if the Cards dont draft a QB in the 1st round then expect another season like last season until they do draft a QB.

People make the arguement that they dont think Gabbert/Newton are worth the 5th pick but if there is ever a time when and a position where a team needs to draft based on need, then this is it with the QB and the Cardinals...

Personally, i dont even see what people dont like about Gabbert. The only thing i hear is that hes from a "spread offense" and he doesnt complete many passes downfield. Those are the most minor of concerns IMO

 

[Crazy Canuck]

The point im trying to make is that if the Cards dont draft a QB in the 1st round then expect another season like last season until they do draft a QB.

People make the arguement that they dont think Gabbert/Newton are worth the 5th pick but if there is ever a time when and a position where a team needs to draft based on need, then this is it with the QB and the Cardinals...

Personally, i dont even see what people dont like about Gabbert. The only thing i hear is that hes from a "spread offense" and he doesnt complete many passes downfield. Those are the most minor of concerns IMO

Given the "buzz these days, it would seem that Gabbert, certainly, and Newton, possibly, will be gone by #5.

This pick for Kolb is borderine rediculous, unless it is a flip of first rounders and we receive something additional later in the draft. Not likely to happen; so #5 probably goes to the "D", and if Mallett or Ponder is available in the second round, then they get an opportunity to be the QBOF.

No matter who we select at QB... a vet will be handling the chores next season (IMO)

 

[BigRedRage]

no to kolb, rather play skelton and a rookie

 

[Duckjake]

The point im trying to make is that if the Cards dont draft a QB in the 1st round then expect another season like last season until they do draft a QB.

People make the arguement that they dont think Gabbert/Newton are worth the 5th pick but if there is ever a time when and a position where a team needs to draft based on need, then this is it with the QB and the Cardinals...

Personally, i dont even see what people dont like about Gabbert. The only thing i hear is that hes from a "spread offense" and he doesnt complete many passes downfield. Those are the most minor of concerns IMO

I expect another season like last season even if the Cards do draft a QB. We don't have the defense to compensate for having a young QB learning his trade like the Jets and Ravens.

 

[lobo]

Whats the plan y'all??[/quote]

Perfectly stated...as I continue to say and will say right up to the end, getting Kolb is far and away option 1. The rest of 'em are more or less east/west head shakers. A "playa' today is always worth a future draft choice.

 

[lobo]

no to kolb, rather play skelton and a rookie

I hope you enjoy watching women's figure skating on Sunday afternoon's.

 

[Duckjake]

Whats the plan y'all??

Perfectly stated...as I continue to say and will say right up to the end, getting Kolb is far and away option 1. The rest of 'em are more or less east/west head shakers. A "playa' today is always worth a future draft choice.

Not exactly something the Cardinal franchise has bought into. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Stout]

The point im trying to make is that if the Cards dont draft a QB in the 1st round then expect another season like last season until they do draft a QB.

People make the arguement that they dont think Gabbert/Newton are worth the 5th pick but if there is ever a time when and a position where a team needs to draft based on need, then this is it with the QB and the Cardinals...

Personally, i dont even see what people dont like about Gabbert. The only thing i hear is that hes from a "spread offense" and he doesnt complete many passes downfield. Those are the most minor of concerns IMO

Uh, those aren't 'minor' concerns at all. Sure, QBs can go from a spread offense to a pro offense, at least in theory--it hasn't happened much with success--but not completing much downfield? That is a HUGE problem. Aside from the fact that it might severely limit his effectiveness as a QB at all, it kills him for our offense. On paper, he's perfectly suited for the West Coast Offense. Well, we don't run that, and we really need a QB that can stick it in a small window 20+ yds downfield. I'd say that's a crucial concern, and probably the main reason I haven't gotten on the Gabbert bandwagon.

 

[john h]

After the poll i took in here a few days ago concerning what you guys would like to do with the #1 pick, Almost 30% wanted Miller, and 17% Peterson. Only 24% of us thought the Cardinals should take a QB with the first pick (Gabbert and Newton). 10% thought we should move the pick to Cinci or Philly for Palmer or Kolb. That means only 34% wanted to use the 1st rounder to bring in a QB of some sort.

I ask what the other 66% of you guys plan on doing about the QB position? What happends when Kolb is gone? Some team in the middle to late part of the 1st round will trade their pick for him. Now what? Palmer? will he even end up leaving? what if San Fran offers something better than the Cards are willing to? What are the possibilites left? McNabb? Bulger? . Even if they get one of these two guys then the Cards will have to draft a QB in the first next year or the year after? Whose to say there will be a better option in the draft at QB for the Cards next year?

My point is that everyone seems to assume the Cards will end up with Kolb or some fictitious franchise QB through FA. The Cards arent the only team that needs a QB and they definitley arent the type of front office that will win a bidding war with other clubs. Realistically, the Cards dont end up with Kolb or Palmer and they jump into the season with somebody like Bulger behind center? But atleast we got Patrick Peterson right?!? haha, im not willing to watch another season like last season.

They need a QB with the first pick or trade it for Kolb with some sort of 2nd or 3rd rounder in return. They can find pass rushers and solid LBs in the 2nd round. They have a high 2nd round pick, theres no reason they cant get an impact OLB with that pick. I dont even know why we assume Schoefield is not an answer at OLB?

The only way i see things working out well if the Cards take Milller/Peterson with the first is if there is no new CBA before the draft and Philly decides they will take a 2012 1st rounder for Kolb.

Whats the plan y'all??

My plan has been unwavering. A QB remains the most important position on any NFL team. The Cards are in the worst QB position of any team in the NFL. We should draft a QB who hopefully will be one who can take over in a few years. If we do not find a QBOTF in this draft or if Skelton does not develop then this franchise is set back for 5 years or more. Miller or any other position player, no matter how good they are, cannot turn this team around. A QB is the only position player who can have such a dynamic effect on a team in such a short time. Even the unintended consequences of not having a good QB can be devastating. What good receiver ever wants to play for a team with a bad QB? Certainly not Larry Fitzgerald. The unintended consequences of a bad QB are enormous. We lose Kurt Warner and go from the Superbowl to last place is a prime time example. Without a doubt in my mind I say draft the best QB available with our first pick. I also say sign the best available QB on the open market when the walkout/lockout ends. This is no time to let money stand in the way if you intend to be a competitive team.

 

[john h]

huh?

That's a pretty big leap. I'd bet a very small percentage of us think the Cards will end up with Kolb. I certainly don't think we will.

Kolb is not on my list of things to do. The way this works out is we get Kolb for our 2012 first rounder. We finish last and have the first pick. The best QB to come along since Peyton Manning is available come draft day. I shoot myself. You never give up your first round draft choice when you are as bad as the Cards are likely to be.

 

[lobo]

Not exactly something the Cardinal franchise has bought into. Quite the opposite in fact.

Based on what we have seen over the past "century" or so maybe a re-look makes some sense. I do believe you are right. I think some of that dates back to the Cubs model for success when the team played on the South Side!!!

 

[lobo]

Kolb is not on my list of things to do. The way this works out is we get Kolb for our 2012 first rounder. We finish last and have the first pick. The best QB to come along since Peyton Manning is available come draft day. I shoot myself. You never give up your first round draft choice when you are as bad as the Cards are likely to be.

Of course you mean "works out in my mind" yes? I would love to see the team get Kolb, but I have serious doubts that they will. If they did in my mind they are a playoff team..particularly if they can do it for a 2012 pick and shore up the defense in round 1 this year. I'm not in the mood for more amateur hour stuff.

 

[BigRedRage]

I hope you enjoy watching women's figure skating on Sunday afternoon's.

what is that supposed to mean?

I think a rookie and skelton have the same potential as kolb, he is average at best and the eagles want way more than hes worth.

 

[kerouac9]

Uh, those aren't 'minor' concerns at all. Sure, QBs can go from a spread offense to a pro offense, at least in theory--it hasn't happened much with success--but not completing much downfield? That is a HUGE problem. Aside from the fact that it might severely limit his effectiveness as a QB at all, it kills him for our offense. On paper, he's perfectly suited for the West Coast Offense. Well, we don't run that, and we really need a QB that can stick it in a small window 20+ yds downfield. I'd say that's a crucial concern, and probably the main reason I haven't gotten on the Gabbert bandwagon.

I don't think that's the case at all. We don't run a West Coast offense, but we do run a spread shotgun passing offense. I wish we did run a play-action passing offense, but that's sadly not the case.

Very few of Warner's passes even in 2008 went 20+ yards downfield through the air. Heck, few of them went 15+ yards downfield. What got Fitz injured in the preseason? An 8-yard in route. We were running a modified Mike Martz passing offense that exploited interior passing zones to gret success with Warner, and that seems to have become Whis's philosophy. Those require great mid-range accuracy and--more importantly--excellent identification of coverage and quick decision-making on where the ball is going. That second reason is why we'll likely not see a rookie starter this season.

I'm not saying this as a defender of Gabbert--I think he might be fine in this offense, but not better than a Kyle Orton type. I don't think he's much of a prospect overall; his upside probably isn't greater than Skelton in the mid-run.

I'm not stressed about the QB situation because I've resigned myself to the idea that we'll press hard on Marc Bulger and if he says no then we'll be going with John Skelton. I like Alex Smith more as a mental exercise than anything else.

EDIT: FWIW, there should NEVER be a "small window" 20 yards from the line of scimmage in an offense. If you have a WR on a vertical route, he'll be double-covered (maybe). But if you have TWO WR on vertical routes, then one of them should be single-covered, and an NFL QB should be able to defeat single-coverage 60% of the time or better. The problem with our offense last season is that QBs rarely had the time for a 20-yard route to develop before defenses were collapsing at their knees and when they did have that time, they couldn't get the ball downfield to their target.

Overthrowing a wide-open seam route to Fitz covered man-up by Kamerion Wimbley in the Raiders game was our season in microcosm.

 

[john h]

Based on what we have seen over the past "century" or so maybe a re-look makes some sense. I do believe you are right. I think some of that dates back to the Cubs model for success when the team played on the South Side!!!

The Cubs model for success one year was to have a committee of Field Managers. I think there were 4 on that committee. How on earth did I become a Cubs/Cardinal fan? I think I need an exorcism.