QB's in the draft

[dreamcastrocks]

Deal. She brought u an Italian beef? Awesome. Now that is a valentine present.

For sure.

Oh yes, I feel loved.

...and craving more Italian beef unfortunately.

I will probably look for a place around here that serves it, doubt it will be as good as Portillos.

 

[Mulli]

Claussen better than Sanchez.

Will take that.

 

[Mulli]

I can't stand ND but Brady Quinn is probably going to be a pretty good QB. He played ina pro style offense, had no OL, no running game, and his best WR was hurt alot and they still put up alot of points.

Deja vu.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Deja vu.

you could be right but i was never all that impressed by Quinn, and he's a local guy.Clausen seems to be better to me. I'm not totally writing Quinn off yet with that mess he's had in Cleveland but this year is probably the last chance he has.

You could've put Ron Pawlus, Rick Mirer, or goold ole Rusty Lisch in there as well .

 

[Lorenzo]

I think in a lot of ways colt mccoy reminds me of drew brees. he's even from austin lol. He's a small guy and that will be his biggest problem. his size and strength may be what drops him a round or two. but he is a value pick for a team that can let him develop. it took drew brees a few years to get the NFL game down and now he dominates the league. we just have to see if colt can take that step. we also know that texas doesn't play a pro-style offense. the good news is it's not the same style they played with VY when it was more zone read. but colt didn't throw the ball very often from under center. there will be a learning curve because of that.

 

[Southpaw]

I think in a lot of ways colt mccoy reminds me of drew brees. he's even from austin lol. He's a small guy and that will be his biggest problem. his size and strength may be what drops him a round or two. but he is a value pick for a team that can let him develop. it took drew brees a few years to get the NFL game down and now he dominates the league. we just have to see if colt can take that step. we also know that texas doesn't play a pro-style offense. the good news is it's not the same style they played with VY when it was more zone read. but colt didn't throw the ball very often from under center. there will be a learning curve because of that.

Is Colt a candidate for the green room on draft day? Bradford is the guy I would expect to be a potential Brady Quinn in that room.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Oh yes, I feel loved.

...and craving more Italian beef unfortunately.

I will probably look for a place around here that serves it, doubt it will be as good as Portillos.

quit it, you guys are making me hungry. There's a website that has the recipe and i made them for our New Year's Eve party. They turned out great. here's the website.

http://www.amazingribs.com/recipes/beef/italian_beef.html

 

[Lorenzo]

Is Colt a candidate for the green room on draft day? Bradford is the guy I would expect to be a potential Brady Quinn in that room.

I'm not quite sure does anyone know his draft grade right now(by round). I think he will go in round 2.

 

[Linderbee]

quit it, you guys are making me hungry. There's a website that has the recipe and i made them for our New Year's Eve party. They turned out great. here's the website.

http://www.amazingribs.com/recipes/beef/italian_beef.html

Thanks! Will give it a try.

 

[az jam]

I'm not quite sure does anyone know his draft grade right now(by round). I think he will go in round 2.

Colt is not a top ten pick and won't be invited to the draft. If his injury is healed and he has good workout, I could see him going in round two.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Oh yes, I feel loved.

...and craving more Italian beef unfortunately.

I will probably look for a place around here that serves it, doubt it will be as good as Portillos.

not as good as portillos, but go to luke's on indian school and (i think) 16th street. tell em the shapiro's sent you.

 

[Mulli]

not as good as portillos, but go to luke's on indian school and (i think) 16th street. tell em the shapiro's sent you.

Luke's is just okay. But might be enough to satisfy the fix.

 

[Mulli]

http://www.portillos.com/store/index.asp?DEPARTMENT_ID=25

 

[Stout]

Kafka sucks. He's a college running QB that can dink-and-dunk it...in college. No thanks. Stull is pretty bad too (thanks for the shout out, Cbus lol). He isn't as bad as Kafka, but I don't think he'll ever be much in the NFL. He just doesn't have the head for the game. I'd be leary of McCoy, but I don't have a lot to base that on. Other than that, off the top of my head, I just don't know.

 

[Early]

Kafka sucks. He's a college running QB that can dink-and-dunk it...in college. No thanks. Stull is pretty bad too (thanks for the shout out, Cbus lol). He isn't as bad as Kafka, but I don't think he'll ever be much in the NFL. He just doesn't have the head for the game. I'd be leary of McCoy, but I don't have a lot to base that on. Other than that, off the top of my head, I just don't know.

Just because a QB has some ability to run the ball, means not that he is a running QB. I evaluated Kafka on his pocket presence. He can run the ball, not that well, but has some ability to do it. Kinda like McNabb or Rodgers. He is not a burner, but can get the crucial first down marker when they go in man coverage and dont put a spy on you.


I dont like running QB's either. NFL is all about pocket. But there are some that can work in pocket too, and that are best in the pocket, and i believe Kafka is one. I haven't even used his mobility outside of the pocket as an argument for drafting him.

 

[Mitch]

Just because a QB has some ability to run the ball, means not that he is a running QB. I evaluated Kafka on his pocket presence. He can run the ball, not that well, but has some ability to do it. Kinda like McNabb or Rodgers. He is not a burner, but can get the crucial first down marker when they go in man coverage and dont put a spy on you.


I dont like running QB's either. NFL is all about pocket. But there are some that can work in pocket too, and that are best in the pocket, and i believe Kafka is one. I haven't even used his mobility outside of the pocket as an argument for drafting him.

I'm with you, Early. Kafka has that certain "it" factor...he's mentally tough and super competitive. His games this year were a thrill to watch. had he played before this year his draft stock would be higher than it is. I think it's remarkable how well he played in just one year.

 

[Early]

I'm with you, Early. Kafka has that certain "it" factor...he's mentally tough and super competitive. His games this year were a thrill to watch. had he played before this year his draft stock would be higher than it is. I think it's remarkable how well he played in just one year.

He should have "it" somewhere in his name... There is lots of that about him and his game

He was asked to play a style of football in college that is worthless in the NFL. That's why most of his combined tape is garbage for evaluation. Most of it is junk for evaluating him for the NFL. Well almost. Because when you show that "it", then you have a high chance of showing that when you are asked to do something else. If you show that you have the ability to solve a given problem in a very sophisticated way, you are more likely to solve another problem that is much different.

You can accumulate small clips of Kafka in plays that remind of an NFL type of offense. NFL throws. NFL playcalls. Under center, difficult progressions etc. You can take few plays from some games and build it up that way. This is the tape you need for evaluating him as a draftpick. Nothing else.

Now i haven't made that tape, but i do have lots lots of plays in my memory. It's the type of plays i remember for every college QB i watch more closely. The "college" type plays, the shotguns, where first target is open most of the time, QB runs etc.; I try to deplete all these plays that from my memory.

Kafka is outstanding when asked to play NFL style. Look at the following link and tell me how he looks dropping back from under the center. His motion and timing, hitchstep is in proper timing with his throws and presence in the pocket. His fakes are good. His ballplacement is amazing, he shows to have that ability to place the ball where only one guy can go up and get it. All the way on the outside. That shows accuracy and football IQ, not only look at your reciever and understand him, but also at the enemy and his placement from his view. In fact, that's the biggest difference between KW and ML. KW can make the throw in perfect coverage all game long and put the ball where only your guy and not the enemy can catch it. ML can't do that, he doesn't think that way, and he doesn't have the accuracy to do that even if he wanted. There are two types of QB's in my world. Those that try to understand where that single coverage will be and rip it apart, no matter how good the coverage is. I see some of that in Kafka. That potential. The second and last type of QB's are those that can't comprehend the IQ of the game and do not have the ability to understand where single coverage will be on every single play, all game long, and that do not have that touch and timing to destroy it consistently. These type of QB's look for open recievers more than they throw to single covered targets. That is ML. It works very well i college. But in NFL you have to have the ability to split single coverage apart and throw in good coverage. That's the difference between Manning/Brees/KW and mediocore QB's. The touch is so important. As Bill Walsh said, the bullet is not the one you ask for most of the time, you rather want a soft catchable ball, that is placed where only your reciever can get it. All the best NFL QB's have had that touch to some degree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_byjZwpFh0

Interspersed with all the college "junk" on his tapes, he was asked to do so much of, are these types of NFL plays, and I like what see from him in these situations. I love his footwork, and his balance within the pocket. He already shows he has that ability to find the second reciever, while looking at the first. I think that is what I find most interesting about him in addition to that westcoast like footwork. Lots of guys start to look too early on the second target. This makes it easier for the zone defense to adjust. This guy keeps his eyes on the first as long as possible before turning arround and making the throw. At least he has shown that he is trying to do that, and is even succesful many times. In college, this is not that important as it is in the NFL, where everything is faster and you need to buy time with these kind of difficult tricks. That is the hallmark of a KW as well. Look away from the first in last second and then deliver the ball. You have to sense a part of the field, without your eyes.

Also the accuracy. To me, the outside throws that he makes stick out, he really has some serious touch and timing most of the time. That shows ability to make accurate throws. These are really hard to make. Only when he doesn't sticks to these good mechanics, he loses that touch sometimes. But luckely, that is easy correctable when he spends more time under the center. As example, on the run, he doesn't throws well at all. His ability to put the ball accurately is closely linked to that dropstep footwork he exhibits. All that again has NFL written all over him. It is amazing to see how good he looks there under the center, while being asked to run the ball so much and be in shotgun. That shows his ability to learn well.

In fact, even in shotgun, this guy shows the proper footwork that you usually make under the center. Most shotgun QB's are not even close as having that balanced dropbacks and hitchsteps and balance. He looks very fluid and "NFL" to me.

A QB like Clausen has tons of "NFL" plays you can evaluate him on. He is one of the better QB prospects to come out in a very long time. kafka has a much smaller sample of these plays. Nonetheless, both impress me in similar way.

 

[Mitch]

He should have "it" somewhere in his name... There is lots of that about him and his game

He was asked to play a style of football in college that is worthless in the NFL. That's why most of his combined tape is garbage for evaluation. Most of it is junk for evaluating him for the NFL. Well almost. Because when you show that "it", then you have a high chance of showing that when you are asked to do something else. If you show that you have the ability to solve a given problem in a very sophisticated way, you are more likely to solve another problem that is much different.

You can accumulate small clips of Kafka in plays that remind of an NFL type of offense. NFL throws. NFL playcalls. Under center, difficult progressions etc. You can take few plays from some games and build it up that way. This is the tape you need for evaluating him as a draftpick. Nothing else.

Now i haven't made that tape, but i do have lots lots of plays in my memory. It's the type of plays i remember for every college QB i watch more closely. The "college" type plays, the shotguns, where first target is open most of the time, QB runs etc.; I try to deplete all these plays that from my memory.

Kafka is outstanding when asked to play NFL style. Look at the following link and tell me how he looks dropping back from under the center. His motion and timing, hitchstep is in proper timing with his throws and presence in the pocket. His fakes are good. His ballplacement is amazing, he shows to have that ability to place the ball where only one guy can go up and get it. All the way on the outside. That shows accuracy and football IQ, not only look at your reciever and understand him, but also at the enemy and his placement from his view. In fact, that's the biggest difference between KW and ML. KW can make the throw in perfect coverage all game long and put the ball where only your guy and not the enemy can catch it. ML can't do that, he doesn't think that way, and he doesn't have the accuracy to do that even if he wanted. There are two types of QB's in my world. Those that try to understand where that single coverage will be and rip it apart, no matter how good the coverage is. I see some of that in Kafka. That potential. The second and last type of QB's are those that can't comprehend the IQ of the game and do not have the ability to understand where single coverage will be on every single play, all game long, and that do not have that touch and timing to destroy it consistently. These type of QB's look for open recievers more than they throw to single covered targets. That is ML. It works very well i college. But in NFL you have to have the ability to split single coverage apart and throw in good coverage. That's the difference between Manning/Brees/KW and mediocore QB's. The touch is so important. As Bill Walsh said, the bullet is not the one you ask for most of the time, you rather want a soft catchable ball, that is placed where only your reciever can get it. All the best NFL QB's have had that touch to some degree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_byjZwpFh0

Interspersed with all the college "junk" on his tapes, he was asked to do so much of, are these types of NFL plays, and I like what see from him in these situations. I love his footwork, and his balance within the pocket. He already shows he has that ability to find the second reciever, while looking at the first. I think that is what I find most interesting about him in addition to that westcoast like footwork. Lots of guys start to look too early on the second target. This makes it easier for the zone defense to adjust. This guy keeps his eyes on the first as long as possible before turning arround and making the throw. At least he has shown that he is trying to do that, and is even succesful many times. In college, this is not that important as it is in the NFL, where everything is faster and you need to buy time with these kind of difficult tricks. That is the hallmark of a KW as well. Look away from the first in last second and then deliver the ball. You have to sense a part of the field, without your eyes.

Also the accuracy. To me, the outside throws that he makes stick out, he really has some serious touch and timing most of the time. That shows ability to make accurate throws. These are really hard to make. Only when he doesn't sticks to these good mechanics, he loses that touch sometimes. But luckely, that is easy correctable when he spends more time under the center. As example, on the run, he doesn't throws well at all. His ability to put the ball accurately is closely linked to that dropstep footwork he exhibits. All that again has NFL written all over him. It is amazing to see how good he looks there under the center, while being asked to run the ball so much and be in shotgun. That shows his ability to learn well.

In fact, even in shotgun, this guy shows the proper footwork that you usually make under the center. Most shotgun QB's are not even close as having that balanced dropbacks and hitchsteps and balance. He looks very fluid and "NFL" to me.

A QB like Clausen has tons of "NFL" plays you can evaluate him on. He is one of the better QB prospects to come out in a very long time. kafka has a much smaller sample of these plays. Nonetheless, both impress me in similar way.

Man, I am so impressed with your understanding of QB play, Early. What's your background? You really know what you are talking about...I mean inside knowledge. You should write draft reports, seriously.

Interesting...you and many of the folks here at ASFN would be curious to know this...Matt McGuire of Walter'sFootball.com...who I think is pretty darned good assessor of NFL talent says of Jimmy Clausen, that he's the closest thing to Kurt Warner as he's seen. At first I was a little dubious about such a statement...particularly because Clausen in demeanor is so different that Warner...but actually they are remarkably similar...neither one of them wants to be influenced by the coaches during the games...they have their eyes strictly on the task a hand and what they have to do and how they have to time everything out.

Now that's hefty praise for Clausen, but I will say I thing McGuire is onto something there. Clausen, like Warner will take the big hit to make the big throw and he can snap off a rope into a tight window just at the precise second he needs to. These are the qualities that separate the great QBs from the average, as you so perfectly put.

Back to Kafka, today when I was writing up a mock draft, I recently have been thinking we should take Jevan Snead in the 3rd round...and the more I thought about it, I would rather wait to draft Mike Kafka than take Snead. Am I crazy? Snead has the rifle arm...but...when I thought about it, does he have the toughness? Does he have the head? I could not answer those questions. For some reason, having watched Kafka this season to both those questions I say yes and yes. YES!

Take Drew Brees...not the best thrower...not pretty a good deal of the time...but tough as nails mentally and 100% committed to winning...will do whatever it takes in preparation and in the games. See...that's the kind of player I want. Warner...same way.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Early,

Thanks for the detailed write up on Kafka. I don't know much about him, but I did watch him in the Senior bowl and he made some nice throws. I am going to keep an eye on him from now on.

 

[Early]

Clausen is ten times better than let's say Stafford. I don't think it is unreasonable to compare him with Warner. Everything from toughness to IQ, to being good character off the field. Accuracy. This guys screens the field as good as top NFL QB's do, and he does all that in college. It's insane. He is lightyears ahead of other QB's in college in terms of playing the game NFL style. He is nothing short of amazing, and he is consistently amazing. Worth the first overall pick if you ask me. Alot of that has to do with the coach he has, Brady's former. But most of it has to do with him, his talent, and as you say it, his ability lead and not be influenced and controled strictly by anyone arround. He is the guy that thinks for himself, he has his own opinion, and dares to show it during the games. That's leadership. When Manning looks over to the sideline, and says let's go for it, that's what i'm talking about.

I'd trade up to get him in a heartbeat. In fact, I wanted to trade up to get Matt Ryan, even when our QB unit was as far down the need list as it possibly could be. And i think that Clausen is clearly the better QB than Ryan was.

To me, it's about drafting the best players. Not the position they play. Matt Ryan would be worth gold right now and the next ten years.

As far as Kafka goes, the only thing that annoys me is the small sample size of these NFL plays.

Snead, i don't like him at all as prospect. As you say it, he is not close the leader and tough guy Kafka is. Second, he has none of the even basic mechanics of dropback hitchstep and throwing motion. He is horrible. He is wildcat QB and that's it. Kafka's pocket motion is one of the more impressive i have seen for quiet some time and fits the westcoast perfectly. Snead is a running QB that can't pass from the pocket. Kafka is a passing QB that can kill you with the run. It's amazing how westcoast he looks like, and he was never trained to look like that. That's what i find the most interesting about him.

 

[Zeno]

Matt Leinart is a better QB than anyone we would pick at #26 and will prove it this season. I'll got out on a limbe and say he'll have a better season than a couple of playoff QBs from this past season in Flacco & Sanchez. He'll also have a higher completion % than McNabb, Garrard, Palmer, Cutler and Orton.
Our passing game won't be as prolific with him as it was with Warner but it'll be an effective dangerous offense.

If we draft a QB before the 5th round I'll be shocked. There are too many other needs to address.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

Matt Leinart is a better QB than anyone we would pick at #26 and will prove it this season. I'll got out on a limbe and say he'll have a better season than a couple of playoff QBs from this past season in Flacco & Sanchez. He'll also have a higher completion % than McNabb, Garrard, Palmer, Cutler and Orton.
Our passing game won't be as prolific with him as it was with Warner but it'll be an effective dangerous offense.

If we draft a QB before the 5th round I'll be shocked. There are too many other needs to address.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Stout]

I watched Kafka quite a bit, and I didn't see any 'it' in any way, shape or form. Granted that he wasn't in a pro system, but even in the system he was in, he struggled to lift his game beyond dink-and-dunk. He wasn't clutch as far as making the big throw downfield even when asked and needed to do so. He just didn't show a doggone thing, and I have no idea why some people are getting hot and bothered over him. It seems to me, this time of the year, a number of poor prospects are elevated into real prospects based on nothing more than conjecture and hope. Kafka has shown nothing, not even when his team needed him to. He isn't going to be a successful pro QB, in my opinion.

 

[Tyler]

Levi Brown in the 3rd or 4th. After the games I saw this year and the video I have watched on him, he has the tools. Lefevour is the EXACT same QB as Leinart, except for the fact he played in a SPREAD O at CMU. We all know how well a spread QB works oout in the NFL, just ask the niners fans. For all of you that dont have faith in Matt, what makes you think LeFevour will be any different? I support Matt 100%, but I do think we need someone to develop behind him, I dont trust BSP or Tyler Palko. I dont want to see Chad Pennington, Dante Culpeper, or anyone along those lines here. Give Matt the team but bring in a rookie with a rocket laser arm.

 

[JC_AZ]

I read yesterday that the Rams would let Bulger go if they can sign Jason Campbell...I would take Bulger or Matt Moore if either becomes available