Quarterback Decision Looms

[nashman]

Warner is still a better QB than Leinart, if Whis is serious when he says the best players will play this will work itself out quickly. If Leinart is the starter he will know he is on a VERY short leash. Having 2 capable QB's is not a bad thing especially when neither has proven they can stay healthy.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Warner is still a better QB than Leinart, if Whis is serious when he says the best players will play this will work itself out quickly. If Leinart is the starter he will know he is on a VERY short leash. Having 2 capable QB's is not a bad thing especially when neither has proven they can stay healthy.

I just don't get this mind set. Leinart is no doubt a work in progress and its hard to say how great he can be or if he is merely going to be mediocre.

BUT WARNER HAS ONE GOOD 10 GAME SEASON SINCE ST LOUIS!! Your just remembering this and making over all generalizations because of what you remember last. And that was last season when he had great stats but, surprise surprise, turned over the ball and imploded just enough to have us not make the playoffs.

Matt was the one who looked like the 'next big thing' in '06. And even for his poor performance in limited action (which was exacerbated by Wiz successfully acknowledging Warners ability to pick up the offense faster and give him reigns of the 2 minute offesne - also showing that Wiz makes decsions that are best for the team) ever notice how we are in EVERY game Leinart plays? And warner was on the wrong end of TB and SEA thrashings last year and countless more the year before.

Leinarts the better play because he is safer and has shown in enough in his 2+ seasons to warrent thinking he could be a playoff caliber QB. Everyone wants to cite his lack of showing anything but I tend to think it takes longer for rookies to completely transition. Especially under two different regimes after playing under one coach for 4+ years at SC and likely the same coach throughout HS. And to me he has shown ENOUGH (again in 2+ seasons) to give him the benefit of the doubt to show what hes got.

The fact that they are playing pretty even says quite a bit because of Warners experience and not needing to learn the nuances of the NFL. Warner SHOULD have looked much better last year and the edge he had because of his having the previous experience with learning new playbooks as a vet seems to have been shaved almost indiscernabally close now in both of their Year 2's in the offense.

Not to mention Matt has moved the ball both games this preseason. I expect Leinart to continue to play a little worse on the road then at home. I expect him to make youthful mistakes. He's still learning.

Which doesn't explain Warners penchent for T.O's, He should know better and ultimately you have to say if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck....

Well then's it's a turnover vet QB that you can't expect to consistently win with

 

[ajcardfan]

i've always heard him say Matt is the starter.Never have i heard him say it's open.The closest i can recall him saying is that the best player will play. The only reason Warner has a start is because he wanted him to get some live reps with the 1st unit instead of playing him with the 2nd until OL.

Well, Warner has said that is what he has been told and Whisenhunt has never directly denied it. He's been a bit of politician on the question. Saying Matt is the starter, but how well each guy performs does matter. It sucks, but he has to try and keep both guys happy.

We're lucky that Leinart and Warner like each other. At least so far, they do.

 

[Mulli]

Anyone realize how this "controversy" compares to McClown vs. Shawn King.

 

[Joe L]

Not really. Warner didn't have as good of a year that people here and the media proclaim. In fact, I feel he lost just as many games for us as Rackers did last year.

Which ones?

 

[moklerman]

Well then's it's a turnover vet QB that you can't expect to consistently win with

Weren't the 2007 Leinart led Cardinals 1-2 before Warner started helping out? Or 3-7 in 2006?

The argument isn't really that the Cardinals would have made the playoffs last year if Warner had NOT been in there, is it?

 

[ajcardfan]

Which ones?

I remember people being the most angry at Warner after the Niners game, the game in Seattle and the New Orleans game.

 

[Mulli]

I remember people being the most angry at Warner after the Niners game, the game in Seattle and the New Orleans game and the Tampa Game, the only game Mulli got to see in person.

Yeah!

 

[Mulli]

Hey, who threw all the picks to London Fletcher last year?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Which ones?

Sacked in the end zone vs. SF (you can call that a wash as they ((Rackers) both screwed up that one)

5 INT game against Seattle

2 fumbles and 2 INTs against Washington

Craptastic 10/30 2INT game against TB.

You want me to keep going?

 

[82CardsGrad]

Really! What evidence do you have that Whis' hand is being forced?

And, have you thought through the affect on Whis and the team if this were true?

PS: The best marketing is not a good looking guy; it's a winning record, and I'm inclined to believe that the Bidwill's know that.

Other than the fact that I see "the most NFL-ready" college QB to ever come out of school, being provided chances he has yet to earn, when the team is presented with a crystal clear and better immediate alternative...
It's my opinion and of course, I could be dead wrong... But my hunch is that if you were to get Whiz in a confidential, off-camera/mic moment, I think he might tell you that he believes Kurt is indeed the better QB and the one who offers the best potential this season. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that if you asked players such as Fitz, Q and others, they would tell you the same...

PS: I have little doubt that the Bidwills "know" that a winning record is the best marketing... However, "knowing" it, and making it happen are two very different things... No doubt we have no reason to doubt that Bidwills and their ability to execute due to the tremendous amount of success they've provided the team and the valley over the last 17 years or so...

 

[Mulli]

Sacked in the end zone vs. SF (you can call that a wash as they ((Rackers) both screwed up that one)

5 INT game against Seattle

2 fumbles and 2 INTs against Washington

Craptastic 10/30 2INT game against TB.

You want me to keep going?

PReach on!!

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Weren't the 2007 Leinart led Cardinals 1-2 before Warner started helping out? Or 3-7 in 2006?

The argument isn't really that the Cardinals would have made the playoffs last year if Warner had NOT been in there, is it?

Actually the 1 of the 2 losses would have come when Warner started "helping" in Baltimore and he led us to two victories at home against the best teams we played. So he was essentially 2 - 2. And yes I do feel good with Matt giving us a chance by winning most at home and stealing 1 or 2 on the road had he been healthy through out.

In 06 he helped us almost topple the best team we played (again at home - keeping in mind he is a rookie). That along with strong performances in 06 that also ended in loss and down the stretch some wins that took us to 4-3 in the last 7.

He has shown me enough to see he rises up to play good teams and much like the team he runs - needs to learn how to play the same way on the road. Always the last thing to come.

He deserves to show you what hes got Mokler. He isn't being "handed" anything 82. So far he's doing it the old fashioned way and letting his play speak.

 

[moklerman]

I remember people being the most angry at Warner after the Niners game, the game in Seattle and the New Orleans game.

I wouldn't lay NO on Warner. The defense was HORRENDOUS that day. 80% 300 yds and 2 TD for Brees and 100 yds and 2 TD for Stecker(Aaron freakin' Stecker?!?). Warner had a pick in the first half and a fumble to start the 3rd but had 300+ yards 3 TD and a 100+ rating and led the team to 10 points after the fumble to get within 7. Defense let NO run the clock out with 7 minutes to go in the game.

SF is on Rackers. A win wouldn't have been all Warner but a two minute drive to tie the game and down to the 19 in OT should have been enough by the rest of the team. Rackers should have been cut for missing a 32 yarder.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Other than the fact that I see "the most NFL-ready" college QB to ever come out of school, being provided chances he has yet to earn, when the team is presented with a crystal clear and better immediate alternative...
It's my opinion and of course, I could be dead wrong... But my hunch is that if you were to get Whiz in a confidential, off-camera/mic moment, I think he might tell you that he believes Kurt is indeed the better QB and the one who offers the best potential this season. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that if you asked players such as Fitz, Q and others, they would tell you the same...

PS: I have little doubt that the Bidwills "know" that a winning record is the best marketing... However, "knowing" it, and making it happen are two very different things... No doubt we have no reason to doubt that Bidwills and their ability to execute due to the tremendous amount of success they've provided the team and the valley over the last 17 years or so...

It's my opinion and of course, I could be dead wrong... But my hunch is that if you were to get Whiz in a confidential, off-camera/mic moment, I think he might tell you that Kurt's propensity to turn over the ball makes Matt the better QB and the one who offers the best potential this season. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that if you asked players such as Fitz, Q and others, they would tell you that they can live with the coach's choice.

 

[clif]

I wouldn't lay NO on Warner. The defense was HORRENDOUS that day. 80% 300 yds and 2 TD for Brees and 100 yds and 2 TD for Stecker(Aaron freakin' Stecker?!?). Warner had a pick in the first half and a fumble to start the 3rd but had 300+ yards 3 TD and a 100+ rating and led the team to 10 points after the fumble to get within 7. Defense let NO run the clock out with 7 minutes to go in the game.

SF is on Rackers. A win wouldn't have been all Warner but a two minute drive to tie the game and down to the 19 in OT should have been enough by the rest of the team. Rackers should have been cut for missing a 32 yarder.

Come on! How does a 37 year old former MVP take a sack and fumble in the endzone in a situation like that? Stop trying to minimize what has clearly been a problem for the guy. It's ok. He can still throw the ball with the best of them, but you can't minimize his penchant for turnovers and how that adversely affected this team.

 

[moklerman]

Actually the 1 of the 2 losses would have come when Warner started "helping" in Baltimore and he led us to two victories at home against the best teams we played. So he was essentially 2 - 2.

Lost to SF on a fluke and won vs. Seattle on a fluke so 1-1 was the "shoulda been" record either way. The Baltimore game was lost until Warner came in so "essentially" that was a Leinart loss. That's 1-2 with the safe QB. Pittsburgh I didn't credit to either but Warner certainly played well and better than Leinart. St. Louis was another hard one to call so I left it off. I'm certainly not convinced that Leinart, on his own, gets the Cards wins vs. Pitt and StL.

In 06 he helped us almost topple the best team we played (again at home - keeping in mind he is a rookie). That along with strong performances in 06 that also ended in loss and down the stretch some wins that took us to 4-3 in the last 7.

Almost beating the Bears counts to me as much as almost beating the 49ers probably counts for you. That game is a micro chasm of Leinart's career thus far though. A fast start, hopes and potential abound, not a very good finish. Leinart had 3 good games in '06 and not much else otherwise. And 2 of those were in his first 2 starts. I'm even willing to forgive the sophomore slump/1st year in a new system 2007 but it concerns me that he was a mess in the first half of the KC game. For me, he has to really look solid or good vs. Oakland or he simply deserves the bench for now.

 

[82CardsGrad]

It's my opinion and of course, I could be dead wrong... But my hunch is that if you were to get Whiz in a confidential, off-camera/mic moment, I think he might tell you that Kurt's propensity to turn over the ball makes Matt the better QB and the one who offers the best potential this season. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that if you asked players such as Fitz, Q and others, they would tell you that they can live with the coach's choice.

Yes, Matt's 13 TD's and 16 INT's make a strong case there...

 

[moklerman]

Come on! How does a 37 year old former MVP take a sack and fumble in the endzone in a situation like that?

Breaston fielding at the 2, the playcall, Pope screwing up Boldin's route, the blocking breaking down and Warner either getting sacked, fumbling like he did, or getting called for grounding if he did throw it all should have never even had a chance to occur. Warner didn't play a great game or a good game that day but to me, the team really fought through it all and in a pressure situation, must-win game, they were in a position to win on a short field goal. Rackers has made a habit of missing fg's and a 32 yarder is one that I can't excuse. I didn't excuse Vinateri for missing the same type of thing when the Colts should have beat the Chargers last year either.

 

[joeshmo]

but it concerns me that he was a mess in the first half of the KC game.

Since you yourself used QB rating in defense of Warner for the NO game then the same holds true for Matt right? What were the QB ratings in the preseason KC game?

 

[joeshmo]

Weren't the 2007 Leinart led Cardinals 1-2 before Warner started helping out? Or 3-7 in 2006?

Are you really going to use the team that gave up on Dennis Green for your arguement?

 

[moklerman]

Since you yourself used QB rating in defense of Warner for the NO game then the same holds true for Matt right? What were the QB ratings in the preseason KC game?

When he was playing with the varsity boys or the frosh/soph's? Comparing how Leinart "looked" and saying Warner cost the Cardinals the NO game is a far different conversation. Warner had 3 TD 1 INT and 300 yards passing in a full, regular season game. It wasn't enough and he made some costly mistakes but "he" didn't lose the game as it was suggested.

Leinart had 11 pass attempts, 5 of which were against scrubs. By your rationale, Pierre should be starting since his passer rating was 147.9.

 

[nashman]

How anyone can rationalize ML being the better option is kinda funny. You may want Leinart but thats all it is he has NOT proven to be a better option at QB than Warner, come on Warner has won a Superbowl what the heck has ML done? Warner is a more experienced QB period so yes he IS better than Leinart at this point, to argue differently is just silly. Do I want Leinart to start and tear it up and not give Warner the chance, HELL YEAH! Do I think their is a chance that Leinart looks as average as he has his whole short career, yes, although I hope not as he could be our QB of the future. Thats what it all boils down to they want to see if Leinart has got it yet, I think the coaching staff knows that Warner is the better of the 2 right now but you have to give Leinart the chance to shine or fail. The worst that can happen is that Leinart sits and learns behind Warner some more until he gets a chance again, thats not always a bad thing Steve Young did pretty well after sitting behind a great QB for along time.

 

[moklerman]

Are you really going to use the team that gave up on Dennis Green for your arguement?

My argument that Leinart's alleged propensity to play it safe, thus giving the Cardinals a better chance to win compared to Warner? Yeah, I think it illustrates that there is no proof of such a thing.

 

[cardsloco]

I don't care which QB starts, I just want to win. That being said, Matt played pretty well in the first game. I would also say he locks down on receivers and checks down too soon. Warner didn't play so we can't compare. Now the second game isn't close Matt was terrible in the first half and good in the second half, a step down from the prior game.Warner made some clutch plays and all around looked the part of a starter. It seems to me that Leinart's throws tend to float. I don't know what is happening in practice so I will trust the coaches to pick the starter. Next weeks game should show us a lot, and we can get behind whoever is chosen.