Quick whats Brian C's Fax number...?

[Goldfield]

First thing is a Sign & trade with the warriors.

-Marion for Dampier. Fillers if needed.

Next we offer the Bobcats Casey Jacobsen & Cash or Little Jake if needed to take Eisley in the expanson draft.


Next is White. Somebody will take his one year contract for the CAVS first round pick.



I will leave the cap number up to the experts. But the Suns now have a nice chunk of change available.

-Bring in KOBE(PLZ NBA GODS)
-Get Vujanic over here...
-Draft Biedrins to help backup both the PF & C spots. He bring much needed Defense & shotblocking.

Now our team is 100% different.

Centers: Dampier/Lampe/Biedrins
Power F: Amare/Biedrins
Small F: JJ/Zarko
SG-----: Kobe/JJ/Barbosa
PG-----: Vujanic/Barbosa

We have Scorers in Amare, Kobe, JJ, Lampe, Vujanic.

Defenders with Dampier, Biedrins, Amare(should improve right?), JJ, Kobe, Barbosa

Passers are JJ, Zarko, Kobe, Vujanic.


Now SInce all the Stars & moons are alligned. If we have extra cap space we could also add a guy like Divacs for more veteran leaddership.

 

[Yuma]

Isn't Dampier a free agent this year? Why would we trade Marion to GS if we can sign Dampier outright? I hope you DON'T have Brian C's fax number!

 

[Chaplin]

Also, I don't think you can offer an extra player to get the Bobcats to take someone.

 

[Dylan]

When the Suns made the Googs trade at the end of the season and
we gave up that draft pick, I was mad and sent a note to the Suns
via Suns.com. A couple days later, I received a call from a Suns guy
to talk to me about it, which I thought was pretty decent of them.
Anyway, we were talking, and I mentioned Dampier as a possible target,
and he said Dampier had given indications he wanted to go to the East,
and specifically Indiana. I didn't put much stock in it really, but then
last week I saw something that said Dampier wants to go to the East,
and was looking at Indiana. So, maybe they do know something.
The article I read last week indicated he wanted to get out of the West
so I wonder if he is a possibility after all. The guy I talked to from the
Suns really made it sound like Dampier was not a guy they were going
after.
But then again, I have to doubt what they would say, I am just a fan,
and they will not give me any really good info.

 

[SweetD]

The Suns use to be one of my clients when I was in sales and I would talk to an IT admin. and he had some good insider info.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

The obession with Dampier was over, at least I thought. We shouldn't throw a ton of money at a guy who played well in his contract year. Especially when he is an older player. Not to mention, to do a sign and trade, salaries would have to match. So if Damp gets like 8 million (which is what he wants) then we still have to send another 3 million worth of players to them.


The Bobcats can only take 1 player per each team, so you cannot leave a second guy unprotected with the hope of moving both. In theory, we could trade Casey to the cats after the expansion draft for a 2nd round pick, but they would have to stay under the cap, which isn't definitely happening.


The only people that could take white without having to send stuff back are Denver and Atlanta (assuming LAC and SA use their cap space this summer). Denver will most likely use up their room, so maybe Atlanta would do it, although there wouldn't be any reason to.



Personally, I think the suns would be better off just pushing either White or Eisley to the Cats to make their run at Kobe. Keep the pick or trade it, I dont really care much. Then sign some vet FAs to shore up the front line depth chart.

The biggest part is keeping Marion. Assuming the new owners wont care obssevly cut costs, his contract wont have an effect on our cap status if we sign Kobe (at least not a big one for the first summer). Marion would be the best 3rd guy on offense. He doesn't need to ball, and scores primarily on put backs. Plus, his defense is above average.

I would MUCH rather have a lineup of

Dice(or some other Vet)/Voskuhl/Lampe
Amare/Dice/Lampe
Marion/JJ/Zarko
Kobe/Casey/Vujanic/Barbosa
JJ/Vujanic/Barbosa/Eisley (he aint goin no where)

I forget someone??

 

[Goldfield]

Isn't Dampier a free agent this year? Why would we trade Marion to GS if we can sign Dampier outright? I hope you DON'T have Brian C's fax number!

Moving Marion would be the only way to keep cap space so we can still go after KOBE.

 

[Goldfield]

The obession with Dampier was over, at least I thought. We shouldn't throw a ton of money at a guy who played well in his contract year. Especially when he is an older player. Not to mention, to do a sign and trade, salaries would have to match. So if Damp gets like 8 million (which is what he wants) then we still have to send another 3 million worth of players to them.

The biggest part is keeping Marion. Assuming the new owners wont care obssevly cut costs, his contract wont have an effect on our cap status if we sign Kobe (at least not a big one for the first summer). Marion would be the best 3rd guy on offense. He doesn't need to ball, and scores primarily on put backs. Plus, his defense is above average.

I would MUCH rather have a lineup of

Dice(or some other Vet)/Voskuhl/Lampe
Amare/Dice/Lampe
Marion/JJ/Zarko
Kobe/Casey/Vujanic/Barbosa
JJ/Vujanic/Barbosa/Eisley (he aint goin no where)

I forget someone??

Actully GS would have to add fillers to match Marion contract...

If you think Dice would be a better center for the Suns then Dampier your crazy.


Dampier's improvment was not only his contract year. If you break down his numbers like I have, you clearly see he got ALOT more min's per game than he had in other years.

WE NEED A CENTER...

 

[George O'Brien]

Dampier may have in mind a "sign and trade" deal to go to Indiana. Perhaps the Pacers would send Foster and Pollard. Neither are outstanding, but it would be better than trying to find someone in the FA market.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Your right about the sign and trade, brain slip on my part.

He had increased minutes, but why hadn't he EARNED those minutes in years past? I think it had something to do with either his play, or his effort. 8 million dollar centers dont play only 20 minutes a game without a reason.


I didn't say Dice would be a better center, I just think the difference between Dice/Voskuhl playing 40 minutes between the two and Damp playing 40 minutes wouldn't make up for the loss of Marion.

 

[Goldfield]

I have to agree that Dampier going to Indiana is a real good idea on his part.

But IF, and thats a big IF, we got KOBE, IMO the Suns would be a MUCH better team with Dampier than the Pacers...

 

[Goldfield]

Your right about the sign and trade, brain slip on my part.

He had increased minutes, but why hadn't he EARNED those minutes in years past? I think it had something to do with either his play, or his effort. 8 million dollar centers dont play only 20 minutes a game without a reason.


I didn't say Dice would be a better center, I just think the difference between Dice/Voskuhl playing 40 minutes between the two and Damp playing 40 minutes wouldn't make up for the loss of Marion.

I agree Dampier wont put up Marion numbers...

But I do think Dampiers IMPACT on this team would be alot greater than Marions is.


Amare, Marion, Kobe is not as good as Amare Dampier, Kobe IMO...

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Damp MIGHT provide 3-4 more rebounds a game, and maybe a blocked shot or to. His defense will most likely be better against half of the leagues centers. However, tying up a lot of money for an underachiever would be horrible. The suns would be MUCH better having Voskuhl/Dice for a combined 4 million a year than Damp at 8 million.

Plus, we have no idea how JJ will react once he goes back to a 3rd or 4th option on offense. He would be much better suited to be a PG since he would be involved in every possesion. Marion on the other hand will make an impact regardless of how many/often he touches the ball.

A JJ/Kobe/Marion tandem is much better defensively (and size wise) than a Vujanic/Kobe/JJ tandem. Damp will not make big enough of a difference to make up for it.



You didn't respond to why he didnt earn his minutes before this year BTW. I thought you would say something since your biggest arguement is how he improved with more minutes......

 

[George O'Brien]

Marion does not solve the Warrior's problems. They are looking at losing their two centers. If they just let Dampier go, they can at least go into the FA market and try to get someone. If they trade for Marion, they use up all their cap space.

 

[Goldfield]

You didn't respond to why he didnt earn his minutes before this year BTW. I thought you would say something since your biggest arguement is how he improved with more minutes......

I have done a nice breakdown on Dampier in a rescent post. You should look it up. Its called "A quick look at Dampier"... There is some good info in there.

His min's went up for a number of reasons. Fortson was hurt for one. But regardless of why, its more important that he responded well with more playing time.

The guy is a very good center in todays NBA. The Suns are in the west and should do what ever it takes to add a guy of his size & talents...

The Suns need a center. Dampier is about the best one available. He is also a very efficient & effective center.

Dampier scores twice more than the average center in the league. Dampier is the TOP rebounding center in the league. He is also well above average at shotblocking.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I remember reading your breakdown when it was first posted. It was a really nice look at how he faired with mroe minutes.

However, I guess unlike you, the reason why he didn't get those minutes before hand bothers me a lot.

Danny Fortson didn't play last year at all. So the minutes should have been available for him. He couldn't beat out Adonal Foyle, and a lot of that had to do with Musselman liking his attitude better IIRC.

You just don't sit an 8 million dollar big athletic center in the western conference without a reason. That reason is VERY important, especially if you want the Suns to commit another 6 years at that same dollar amount.

Overpaying players because we have the money to burn killed this franchise for half a decade. I can't understand why you would be preaching for them to do it again.

 

[Goldfield]

I remember reading your breakdown when it was first posted. It was a really nice look at how he faired with mroe minutes.

However, I guess unlike you, the reason why he didn't get those minutes before hand bothers me a lot.

Danny Fortson didn't play last year at all. So the minutes should have been available for him. He couldn't beat out Adonal Foyle, and a lot of that had to do with Musselman liking his attitude better IIRC.

You just don't sit an 8 million dollar big athletic center in the western conference without a reason. That reason is VERY important, especially if you want the Suns to commit another 6 years at that same dollar amount.

Overpaying players because we have the money to burn killed this franchise for half a decade. I can't understand why you would be preaching for them to do it again.

I agree with your concern, but to win in the west you have to be willing to take chances. There are alot more risky things you can do than sign a center that has been above average his entire career.

Big athletic centers(as you put it) are the rarest thing in the NBA. They also make the most impact to a team.

Center & PF are the biggest impact. Followed by the PG... SF IMO is the least impact position, and are also easy positions to find talented players.

A Marion for Dampier would be a fair trade to both teams. Marion does bring ALOT to the table, and is still young. Dampier would bring somthing to this team that we have never had before. TUFFNESS & Strength down low. Not to mention all the pressure he would take off Amare...

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

You have to willing to take chances.

However, an 8 million dollar, multi year contract for an underachiever, who played well in a contract year is not a chance, it is a suicide path.

Look at Kandi. He played well in his contract year, and turned down a 70 million dollar offer because he wanted the max. The next year he got the MLE, and is being overpaid. People get to enamoured with size.


The suns are much better off taking a safer gamble on a mid level center like Thomas or Blount, if that is the path they choose.

Don't forget that the new CBA will go into effect for the 2005 season. Hopefully guaranteed contracts will be a lot shorter then. Maybe I would be up to a gamble like this then, but not now. Not after dealing with Penny and Googs for so long.

 

[Goldfield]

Compairing those two is a joke. Kandi has never been good. Dampier is a good center.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Compairing those two is a joke. Kandi has never been good. Dampier is a good center.

Two season ago Kandi played pretty well. I think you are seriously overrating Dampier. Would you have pushed this hard, and offered trading Marion, had he played the same way this past season as he has for the rest of his career?

This was a contract year, for probally the last big contract he will get. He played his ass off, and threw up some nice numbers. However, I highly doubt he will duplicate those numbers next year, and even if he did, I would not want to dedicate that much money to him.

Dampier is already 30 years old. A 6 year deal mean we will be paying him a LOT of money, at the end of his deal, when he will be on a sharp decline.

You cannot just think for the next season or two (I still dont like the deal for just those seasons anyways). You have to look at the impact he will have throughout the entire contract, and how much it will affect the teams flexibility.

 

[hcsilla]

How about trading for Cardinal? Arroyo? Giricek? Joe Smith? Cassell? Marshall?

They all had a great LAST season.

 

[George O'Brien]

How about trading for Cardinal? Arroyo? Giricek? Joe Smith? Cassell? Marshall?

They all had a great LAST season.

Cardinal is a free agent. I'd love to have him if he came cheap on a short contract. He's everything Harvey gave - plus he can flat out shoot the ball.

Back to Dampier;

I still don't see why GS does the trade. The only reason they do a sign and trade is to get more than they could get through free agency. But they think Dunleavy is going to be a good SG, which is why they unloaded Jamison. (There were other reasons, but it played a role).

We can come up with all kinds of trade scenerios if we ignore the interests of the other team. But what's the point?