Raiders Game: First Impressions

[Tangodnzr]

I can't believe Green is saying he's happy with the play of this team right now.

I watched the entire Seattle/San Diego game friday night.

I started getting a BIG sinking feeling in my stomach...and watching last nights game in comparison, just deepened that feeling.

Seattle looked sharp in just about every aspect of the game except kick coverage.

They destroyed San Diego. They look sharp.

If Green plays the lineup he did last night, I see the Cards getting steamrolled by the Seahawks.

I noticed one huge difference between the Cards game and any other preseason games I have seen.....Things are more uptight and tense on the Cards sidelines.
Green seems to have absolutely no rapport with anyone.
The team looks heartless.
Everyone seems to be doing simply "what they have to"....no real emotion.
None of the other comraderie I see on other teams on the sideline.

Green seems to have this team wound too tight. It seemed to me like Green was too concerned about winning the game, as opposed to "ironing out wrinkles".....and there seems to be a lot of those that need tending to right now. Everyone seems to be "playing scared".

The biggest thing that stuck out to me was:
What is this fascination with Kolodziej ?????
Green continues to play him as much or more than anyone on the DL, and I never saw him make a single play all night. He was constantly overpowered and literally run out of the center of the DL. His play is killing the defense.
If he remains the starting DT, this team is going to get cremated "up the middle or 'inside' " by any team with a decent running game
I still don't see Dockett doing that much at DE.

The O-LIne run blocking was atrocious, literally non-existant.

Nate Poole, Josh, and Kevin Kasper all looked good.

Josh is using/finding Freddy Jones well.

I didn't see much, overall, to get excited about. In fact, right now, it looks like this could be a long, futlile season, that may make last years look good.

 

[ajcardfan]

.
The team looks heartless.
Everyone seems to be doing simply "what they have to"....no real emotion.
None of the other comraderie I see on other teams on the sideline.

Green seems to have this team wound too tight. It seemed to me like Green was too concerned about winning the game, as opposed to "ironing out wrinkles".....and there seems to be a lot of those that need tending to right now. Everyone seems to be "playing scared".

In fact, right now, it looks like this could be a long, futlile season, that may make last years look good.

You think weird Tango. You defended the sqaud in last year's 38-0 Seattle whipping. Last night, the team played far harder and with more spirit than that game or the first two preseason games, yet you call them "heartless"?

And, there's no way last season will ever "look good".

I wrote off realistic expectations of this being a real good year when it came out that 10 guys complained to the NFLPA. Last night was the first sign that this team might be coming together with the common purpose of winning when it counts. I think the lines have too many flaws for us to be very good, but I don't think it's a stretch to hope we'll be much better than last year, especially when Boldin is back, and headed in the right driection.

 

[clif]

I can't believe Green is saying he's happy with the play of this team right now.

I watched the entire Seattle/San Diego game friday night.

I started getting a BIG sinking feeling in my stomach...and watching last nights game in comparison, just deepened that feeling.

Seattle looked sharp in just about every aspect of the game except kick coverage.

They destroyed San Diego. They look sharp.

If Green plays the lineup he did last night, I see the Cards getting steamrolled by the Seahawks.

I noticed one huge difference between the Cards game and any other preseason games I have seen.....Things are more uptight and tense on the Cards sidelines.
Green seems to have absolutely no rapport with anyone.
The team looks heartless.
Everyone seems to be doing simply "what they have to"....no real emotion.
None of the other comraderie I see on other teams on the sideline.

Green seems to have this team wound too tight. It seemed to me like Green was too concerned about winning the game, as opposed to "ironing out wrinkles".....and there seems to be a lot of those that need tending to right now. Everyone seems to be "playing scared".

The biggest thing that stuck out to me was:
What is this fascination with Kolodziej ?????
Green continues to play him as much or more than anyone on the DL, and I never saw him make a single play all night. He was constantly overpowered and literally run out of the center of the DL. His play is killing the defense.
If he remains the starting DT, this team is going to get cremated "up the middle or 'inside' " by any team with a decent running game
I still don't see Dockett doing that much at DE.

The O-LIne run blocking was atrocious, literally non-existant.

Nate Poole, Josh, and Kevin Kasper all looked good.

Josh is using/finding Freddy Jones well.

I didn't see much, overall, to get excited about. In fact, right now, it looks like this could be a long, futlile season, that may make last years look good.

I am sorry but you are one of the most negative people I know. I mean you can take anything positive and make it out to be the worst thing in the world. You talk about the team looks tight on the sidelines? Who the heck cares? You say the team was heartless? what? Did you see the swagger thompson had on the first series? Did you see the intensity of adrian wilson? Did you see the excitement when KVB got that sack? What in the world are you talking about heartless?

I guess they could stand on the sidelines and play grab ass if you like! That will win us some games this year. ...

The play on the field was much improved. Perfect? no Great? heck no.. better than last year? I would say heck yes. The team played with a fire and in alot of instances backed it up. Are there holes on this team? Of course, but I dont see it as bad as you make it out to be. This team will struggle this year, but I think they will be alot more exciting to watch.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

So your biggest concern is with Kolodzijei or what ever his frikkin name is?

If that's your biggest concern then I'm not worried.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I can't believe Green is saying he's happy with the play of this team right now.

I watched the entire Seattle/San Diego game friday night.

I started getting a BIG sinking feeling in my stomach...and watching last nights game in comparison, just deepened that feeling.

Seattle looked sharp in just about every aspect of the game except kick coverage.

They destroyed San Diego. They look sharp.

If Green plays the lineup he did last night, I see the Cards getting steamrolled by the Seahawks.

I noticed one huge difference between the Cards game and any other preseason games I have seen.....Things are more uptight and tense on the Cards sidelines.
Green seems to have absolutely no rapport with anyone.
The team looks heartless.
Everyone seems to be doing simply "what they have to"....no real emotion.
None of the other comraderie I see on other teams on the sideline.

Green seems to have this team wound too tight. It seemed to me like Green was too concerned about winning the game, as opposed to "ironing out wrinkles".....and there seems to be a lot of those that need tending to right now. Everyone seems to be "playing scared".

The biggest thing that stuck out to me was:
What is this fascination with Kolodziej ?????
Green continues to play him as much or more than anyone on the DL, and I never saw him make a single play all night. He was constantly overpowered and literally run out of the center of the DL. His play is killing the defense.
If he remains the starting DT, this team is going to get cremated "up the middle or 'inside' " by any team with a decent running game
I still don't see Dockett doing that much at DE.

The O-LIne run blocking was atrocious, literally non-existant.

Nate Poole, Josh, and Kevin Kasper all looked good.

Josh is using/finding Freddy Jones well.

I didn't see much, overall, to get excited about. In fact, right now, it looks like this could be a long, futlile season, that may make last years look good.

HUH??




Im befuddled!

 

[40yearfan]

Tango, this is one instance where I'm going to have to disagree with you. I don't know if you were at the game or watched it on TV. The intensity level was very high last night. Before the game started (during warm-ups) the Cards got into a big huddle, starting jumping up and down and hollering "Our house----our house!!!!" During the whole first half, Wilson and Macklin and Thompson were hurtling their bodies into Oaklands players, making huge tackles and then jumping up and screaming at their opponents. They actually intimidated the Raiders. This is the first time in recent memory where I can remember the Cardinals being more physical both offensively and defensively. They wanted to show the Raiders that if you come to the Cards house, you will find pain and I think they were very effective in doing so.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Title for this thread should be:

"Tango hates Green"

or

"Tango going senile"

or

"Crankiness, not just for dinner in Tango's bitter world, get a helping!"

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I can't believe Green is saying he's happy with the play of this team right now.

I watched the entire Seattle/San Diego game friday night.

I started getting a BIG sinking feeling in my stomach...and watching last nights game in comparison, just deepened that feeling.

Seattle looked sharp in just about every aspect of the game except kick coverage.

They destroyed San Diego. They look sharp.

If Green plays the lineup he did last night, I see the Cards getting steamrolled by the Seahawks.

I noticed one huge difference between the Cards game and any other preseason games I have seen.....Things are more uptight and tense on the Cards sidelines.
Green seems to have absolutely no rapport with anyone.
The team looks heartless.
Everyone seems to be doing simply "what they have to"....no real emotion.
None of the other comraderie I see on other teams on the sideline.

Green seems to have this team wound too tight. It seemed to me like Green was too concerned about winning the game, as opposed to "ironing out wrinkles".....and there seems to be a lot of those that need tending to right now. Everyone seems to be "playing scared".

The biggest thing that stuck out to me was:
What is this fascination with Kolodziej ?????
Green continues to play him as much or more than anyone on the DL, and I never saw him make a single play all night. He was constantly overpowered and literally run out of the center of the DL. His play is killing the defense.
If he remains the starting DT, this team is going to get cremated "up the middle or 'inside' " by any team with a decent running game
I still don't see Dockett doing that much at DE.

The O-LIne run blocking was atrocious, literally non-existant.

Nate Poole, Josh, and Kevin Kasper all looked good.

Josh is using/finding Freddy Jones well.

I didn't see much, overall, to get excited about. In fact, right now, it looks like this could be a long, futlile season, that may make last years look good.

man tango. That is weak. Your just see the emotions that you want to see on the sideline. You pseudo psychoanalysis of everyones state-of-mind is ridiculous.

 

[Tangodnzr]

NO, I was not at the game. I watched it on Direct TV.

Granted doing that, one may miss some of what you said, 40yr.

I agree, the beginning of the game I saw that, but by the second half I didn't.

And I probably used the wrong choice of words with "camraderie".

What I meant, more specifically, is the everyone's relationship with the HC.

No love shown there from any direction. Green seems to have this team motivated out of fear more than anything, and I think that's going to take its toll as the season progresses, if nothing changes.

And I will concede that "heartless" may be a little too harsh. I don't think the team, per se, is heartless.

I got the feeling from watching last night's game that there are people being mis-used. Still some people playing that shouldn't be, and some not getting a chance to do anything, that I think should.

Everyone talks about what a genius talent evaluator Green is....frankly I just don't see it yet.

In fact, just the opposite.

and...yes, I think Kolodziej is a BIG problem, if he's going to be annointed the starting DT on this team.

It's sucking down the effectiveness of other players, too.

 

[red desert]

Title for this thread should be:

"Tango hates Green"

That was my thought exactly.

I felt the intensity level was pretty high myself, especially in the first half.

 

[nidan]

Tango you need to chill a little, do you understand what preseason is about ?

Preparation, practice and talent evaluation.

Now we have more the first two to do as we have new coaches and schemes. Even if we had the same talent pool as Seattle, we would still look worse and it will take DG a couple of drafts to recraft this roster.

As for your fixation on the DT, think about one of our WR who started with the first team. I have no idea of his name, we only signed him this week. Do you really think DG is planning on him being a starting WR ? Maybe he is just evaluating the player.

The point here is that apart from wanting to see effort you really don't know what DG's objectives in each game are. Winning is not at the top of the list.

It's like Navarre's screwup, that was great. Don't you think the kid learnt a lot from those two plays (or 1 play and 1 non play) ?

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I can't believe Green is saying he's happy with the play of this team right now.

I watched the entire Seattle/San Diego game friday night.

I started getting a BIG sinking feeling in my stomach...and watching last nights game in comparison, just deepened that feeling.

Seattle looked sharp in just about every aspect of the game except kick coverage.

They destroyed San Diego. They look sharp.

If Green plays the lineup he did last night, I see the Cards getting steamrolled by the Seahawks.

I noticed one huge difference between the Cards game and any other preseason games I have seen.....Things are more uptight and tense on the Cards sidelines.
Green seems to have absolutely no rapport with anyone.
The team looks heartless.
Everyone seems to be doing simply "what they have to"....no real emotion.
None of the other comraderie I see on other teams on the sideline.

Green seems to have this team wound too tight. It seemed to me like Green was too concerned about winning the game, as opposed to "ironing out wrinkles".....and there seems to be a lot of those that need tending to right now. Everyone seems to be "playing scared".

The biggest thing that stuck out to me was:
What is this fascination with Kolodziej ?????
Green continues to play him as much or more than anyone on the DL, and I never saw him make a single play all night. He was constantly overpowered and literally run out of the center of the DL. His play is killing the defense.
If he remains the starting DT, this team is going to get cremated "up the middle or 'inside' " by any team with a decent running game
I still don't see Dockett doing that much at DE.

The O-LIne run blocking was atrocious, literally non-existant.

Nate Poole, Josh, and Kevin Kasper all looked good.

Josh is using/finding Freddy Jones well.

I didn't see much, overall, to get excited about. In fact, right now, it looks like this could be a long, futlile season, that may make last years look good.

Someone's been eating too many potatoes!

 

[Rats]

Tango.......

Being at the game you get more of a feel for how the team is responding to there surroundings. I think with 2\3rds of the stadium being Raider fans last night the team responded very well on defense and quite well on offense. There not perfect and may not be this season. They did play with purpose last night. The lines missed some assignments but really played hard. Tangos assessment of this Coach green coached squad is drivel. Be biased if you want. It is your right. But call it what it is....You don't like the coach so everything that goes wrong you will lay at his feet. This team is a work in progress. They are missing key components...some aren't even on the squad yet....but this Coach will deliver a winnner. Our QB is night and day from where he was last year. You could see he had leadership last year but now he is actually leading and that is directly because of the confidense the Coach instilled in him. If you weren't so blinded by your negativity you could see this...

 

[AzCards06]

Denny Green IS a genius talent evaluator. That's what he's doing right now, that's what a first year head coach DOES in the preseason, evaluate talent.

Denny said we'd be ready by the first regular season game.

I don't think we'll really see our team till then. One example from last night: whenever we needed a stop on the Raiders, Dockett moved in to under tackle, and KVB came in at DE. But other than that, Denny was trying to determine who can play, and who can't.

We could have another 10-15 free agents come in before the regular season starts.

 

[Redheart]

Wow.

Green only said he was pleased with the effort; and I understand why. This was the first game when it looked like the whole team was playing with some fire.

Let me tell you, when I saw them coming at me late in the first half, the Offense looked MEAN. The huddle broke and they bounced to the line...well all of them except BIG, he just sort of stalked there like he owned Sapp...and he did, all night long.

You have been hiding your Green-bigotry pretty well the last week; but the "concerned reasonlableness" you've been cloaking yourself in just fell off. You HATE Green so much, you can't even see reality. Do us all a favor and TAKE OFF those piss-colored glasses.

 

[Tangodnzr]

I do freely admit to presently having a bias towards Green.

And that bias is based on what I see. (or don't see that should be evident, in some cases).

Like I said to begin with, these were my FIRST IMPRESSIONS. Last week I was pretty depressed after the game too, but after reviewing the tapes, felt a little better,
I surely hope the same is true this week.

To date, I don't see the justification for so many people giving Green the total free ride they seem to be.

So far, we've lost a center that we probably shouldn't have. The whole LJ Shelton matter is a joke. We have Quan and Kenny King on the shelf, in what could arguably be said that may be primarily due to Green's over zealousnessness. I think a case could be made that both those were injuries that didn't necessarily have to have occured.

I have disagreed for a long time that this team was lacking as much talent as some claim (other than CB). It has been my belief that a lot of talent just didn't get "progressed" like it should have due to coaching inadequacies.

I don't see how anyone can say Cameron Spikes playing and Shelton not, is justifiable, (other than Shelton's back problem now), which is not good news.

Or Giving Ross Kolodziej 6 quarters of playing time the past two games and seldom looking at anyone else can be spun as a wise move.

We've got one more game till they start counting. And this team is still looking like its the first preseason game.

Not Good.

Granted, with the new coaching staff, it may not be very realistic to expect them to have the cohesion of "normal" teams.

But then, along that line, then maybe Green's pushing the envelope earlier and losing the extra training time that's supposed to help overcome that, doesn't look so genius afterall, either.

No, you all that want to, keep making excuses. Like the darksiders were so fond of saying again, and again, and again, last year. I'm not being negative...just realistic.

To date, anyway, Dennis Green has proven nothing.

"We'll See". however.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Tango you need to chill a little, do you understand what preseason is about ?

Preparation, practice and talent evaluation.

Now we have more the first two to do as we have new coaches and schemes. Even if we had the same talent pool as Seattle, we would still look worse and it will take DG a couple of drafts to recraft this roster.

As for your fixation on the DT, think about one of our WR who started with the first team. I have no idea of his name, we only signed him this week. Do you really think DG is planning on him being a starting WR ? Maybe he is just evaluating the player.

The point here is that apart from wanting to see effort you really don't know what DG's objectives in each game are. Winning is not at the top of the list.

It's like Navarre's screwup, that was great. Don't you think the kid learnt a lot from those two plays (or 1 play and 1 non play) ?

Nidan, I usually agree with most of what you say here.

But enough of the condensending chipshots. Of course I understand what the preseason is about.

Read my prior post in regard to "time and new coaches".

I certainly hope all of Kolodziej's playing time has been just for "evaluation purposes", but if Green is such a talent recognition wizard, why has it taken this much time to see that the guy just isn't getting the job done.
He's getting blown up the majority of the time, regardless of who's acrosss from him.

Watch the friggin' replays of the last 2 games, and point out where I'm incorrect, those of you whose doubt what I'm saying.

And yes, I don't pretend to know what's going on in Green's head. And MY impression, right or wrong, was that Green seemed awfully concerned about the score in the last 2 games also.

And Navarre's "screwup", to me, is like I posted earlier on the "Navarre" thread....I think its mostly a non-issue at this point.

I'm not expecting to see him in the lineup this year in any significant role. If we do...then this team is truely in deep, deep doo doo.

Which reminds me....there sure do seem to be some selective moderating here in regard to Skkorps reminder about profanity and personal insults.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I don't see how anyone can say Cameron Spikes playing and Shelton not, is justifiable, (other than Shelton's back problem now), which is not good news.

Or Giving Ross Kolodziej 6 quarters of playing time the past two games and seldom looking at anyone else can be spun as a wise move.

We've got one more game till they start counting. And this team is still looking like its the first preseason game.

Now, to a degree, I will agree with this. The fascination with Kolodziej is unbelievable. The guys is just not good. That also goes for the experiment of Dockett at DE. Ok Green it was a thought but he is being man handled out there-enough already!

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Now, to a degree, I will agree with this. The fascination with Kolodziej is unbelievable. The guys is just not good. That also goes for the experiment of Dockett at DE. Ok Green it was a thought but he is being man handled out there-enough already!

Well one things for sure, is that Green isn't afraid to change something. He'll shake things up on the D line again if he thinks he needs to. I promise you that.

 

[Tangodnzr]

I have absolutely no problem at all with Green "experimenting" in fact, it's what I think should be normally expected, especially under the circumstances.

What bothers me, in a couple of areas, is Green's history of sometimes shooting himself in the foot with his tendancy to play some players that maybe shouldn't be playing, but are "his" type of players.

I can't believe the flip flopping of some people here, who in the past denigrated Mac and some of the players on this team because they were termed: "Mac's type...high motor, lacking talent".
Yes that same situation now...and Green is defended.
Amazing, simply amazing.

Only time is going to tell, I guess, here. And I will gladly recant any of the errors I may be making...when and if they are indeed proven to be so.

 

[joeshmo]

Granted, with the new coaching staff, it may not be very realistic to expect them to have the cohesion of "normal" teams.

But then, along that line, then maybe Green's pushing the envelope earlier and losing the extra training time that's supposed to help overcome that, doesn't look so genius afterall, either.

We lost time in the gym no practice time was lost. Cohesion comes from practices of which we didnt lose any.

There are a few things Green has done wrong that I will admit to as well(Kolodiez, some of the injuries) but this is just looking for negatives when there is none to be found. So another cheap shot on Green shows more of your blind bias.

 

[Ryanwb]

I can't believe the flip flopping of some people here, who in the past denigrated Mac and some of the players on this team because they were termed: "Mac's type...high motor, lacking talent".
Yes that same situation now...and Green is defended.
Amazing, simply amazing.

Thats probably because like myself, most people gave Coach Mac the benefit of the doubt for close to 3 years. I am giving Coach Green that same confidence.... you've jumped ship before the man has even officially coached this team in the regular season. How long are we going to have to listen to your spuddering sentence fragments and condecending attacks on Green?

 

[joeshmo]

Thats probably because like myself, most people gave Coach Mac the benefit of the doubt for close to 3 years. I am giving Coach Green that same confidence.... you've jumped ship before the man has even officially coached this team in the regular season. How long are we going to have to listen to your spuddering sentence fragments and condecending attacks on Green?

Nice rebuttal.

 

[DieHardFromMO]

It's like Navarre's screwup, that was great. Don't you think the kid learnt a lot from those two plays (or 1 play and 1 non play) ?

If you are referencing the false start on the Cardinals as being Navarre's fault, well I didn't quite see it that way.

It appeared to me that L. Diamond was in a set position and then moved backwards.

I understand it is the QB's responsibility to ensure everyone is in a set position prior to the snap of the ball, but my viewpoint is Diamond moved after already setting himself.

 

[clif]

All I have to say is Kolodziej is being evaluated and time will tell if he will be on the team let alone starting. I would rather them experiment with him and Dockett at end rather than the same old status quo of letting the higher picks play since we have to "justify" picking them. Realize that as for Kolodziej he was out of football last year and he is hustling. So he may not have the talent, but it costs the team nothing to evaluate him. Dockett played his second game as a DE in the NFL and did get a decent push. I saw potential. Of course he has a long way to go, but what would you expect?

No one said DG has a free ride....he does have to be given time and patience as anyone with any knowledge of football should realize that you cannot turn around one of the worst teams in one year. As for the outright hate or negativety towards DG, I think it is time for some people to get real and wake up. The man is a winner which is more than what can be said for anyone the cards have had for the past 10-15 years at least. You can sit here on these boards and question his motives and point out mistakes here and there all you want. The bottom line is DG will make this team a winner with or without you. You can say he is not a talent evaluator or not a teacher, but one thing is clear... he knows how to win. You can say he has not "shown" an ability to make former high picks into players, but you can argue that the players have not "shown" an ability to be players. No matter how much teaching a coach can do, the players are the ones who have to perform. So before you come on here and proclaim that the team is no better than there were last year and in some instances worse please do us all a favor and not post your one sided biased opinion because they did not hire "your coach"....you are not doing anyone a favor. I am convinced that Lombardi, Parcells, (insert coach of your choice) or God himself could coach this team and you would still point to certain miscues as a reason they are not the ones to get it done. You can come on here and tell us about how long you've been a cards fan or point to the number of posts you've made of this forum, but bottom line you know no more about the make up of this team and the make up of its head coach than anyone else. I am sick and tired of the "where is this great talent evaluator" crap. Your opinion is just what it is an opinion. I have all the confidence in the world that this team will be competitive and be an eventual winner. Why? Because DG is not afraid to piss some people off in the process.