Rams continue to grow money: sign Bobby Wagner

[BritCard]

lol Okay. There's no getting through to you. If you can't understand that PFF has ABSOLUTELY ZERO knowledge of play call or responsibility, I don't know what to tell you. At best, at maximum, PFF stats are complementary. At worst, as in here, they're pretty much meaningless. By your rational, someone that had 5 plays a game over a season but graded out well in those plays has a great chance to start and be good. That's just really poor reliance on fallible statistics.

If your only argument is "But, PFF!" you have no argument.

My only argument isn't but PFF though as I've listed several times.

And its such a lazy argument to say "they don't know the play". For O line I can maybe just about accept that. For a linebacker it's evident. You don't have to be a Sean McVay to diagnose what the linebacker should be doing.

Look, if yoyu can't see Collins is a good player who's going to be better than Hicks I can't help you. That's your problem.

I can. We can revisit it in November and see who's right.

 

[Chopper0080]

My only argument isn't but PFF though as I've listed several times.

And its such a lazy argument to say "they don't know the play". For O line I can maybe just about accept that. For a linebacker it's evident. You don't have to be a Sean McVay to diagnose what the linebacker should be doing.

Look, if yoyu can't see Collins is a good player who's going to be better than Hicks I can't help you. That's your problem.

I can. We can revisit it in November and see who's right.

But it isn't about what we think or feel or perceive. It is about what Vance thinks and feels. Last year he strongly disagreed with your take. It is tough to see how we can count on such a significant change by Vance between now and the start of the season.

 

[kerouac9]

I've pointed out several times there was no tangible reason Collins didn't start. He was statistically better than Hicks and graded better. He was vastly superior in all those areas to Vallejo.

There seems to be an assumption that the better player automatically gets the start but we all know that's not true. All coaches have their favorites and this org more than most has often been biased towards vets.

It was pure garbage from Davies and Vance that Collins didn't play much more.

All of that is nonsense. I don't care about PFF grades; they don't tell me anything. Sorry, bro.

What means more to me is that Vance was tasked with starting Collins immediately after he was drafted, and STILL tossed him in the garbage can as the season went on. It was so important to him to get him and keep him off the field that he defied his boss.

We see a paltry handful of snaps in a game (especially all those zeros that Collins put up). The coaching staff sees hundreds and hundreds of reps of Collins throughout the preseason and practices. Collins' teammates knew the score and STILL voted Hicks a captain.

It's WILD that you feel like that doesn't deliver a message. That personal animus somehow placed Collins on the bench. And I'm not convinced by your argument about a bias towards veterans, either. Vance was willing to start Marco Wilson over Robert Alford.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Vance was willing to start Marco Wilson over Robert Alford.

And promote Wilson, with the end result being another established vet quitting! (Malcolm Butler)

 

[BritCard]

You know what? I'm tired of arguing our own players are good.

Never have I come across such a bunch of negative BS. There is zero evidence Collins has issues and a stack of positive data. If you want to believe there's an issue feel free. I'm not going to be convinced.

I'll believe in our young players until proven otherwise. Collins more than any of them.

 

[kerouac9]

You know what? I'm tired of arguing our own players are good.

Never have I come across such a bunch of negative BS. There is zero evidence Collins has issues and a stack of positive data. If you want to believe there's an issue feel free. I'm not going to be convinced.

I'll believe in our young players until proven otherwise. Collins more than any of them.

Collins defensive snaps by week:

22
25
28
4
34
16
32
3
3
23
0
3
0
0
0
19
8
8

Oof.

J.J. Watt Defensive Snaps after Week 10: 24
Zaven Collins Defensive Snaps after Week 10: 38

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It’s venting about WHEREAS THE TEAM IS RIGHT NOW.

What you’re suggesting is either the board should shut down for six months or anyone with a negative opinion should shut up until then. That’s not how the board.., or really ANYTHING in the world works. People talk about issues right in front of them on a message board. Shocker.

I don’t understand why this concept is so difficult for some posters to grasp. I mean, saying “wait for what could happen” is kind of an exercise in silliness considering that potentially includes the full spectrum from the cards doing nada to the cards trading for a slew of all pros for pennies on the dollar. We do know what exists now, so why not comment on it?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You're not though. People are talking about invented issues. Born out of relentless pessimism. People that called Kirk a JAG for 4 years are now concerned that 2nd round pick Rondale Moore can't adequate replace him. People that relentlessly piled on Hicks for years are now concerned #16 overall pick Zaven Collins can't replace him.

If what we see now is still the case in early May it's probably an issue. But right now, it's not.

Wait, if the current facts remain as-is in may it’s a problem. But these facts today shouldn’t be discussed. Oookaaaay.

We ALL know stuff could happen. So many of us choose to discuss the facts of what exists today. When things change we will discuss those facts too.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My only argument isn't but PFF though as I've listed several times.

And its such a lazy argument to say "they don't know the play". For O line I can maybe just about accept that. For a linebacker it's evident. You don't have to be a Sean McVay to diagnose what the linebacker should be doing.

Look, if yoyu can't see Collins is a good player who's going to be better than Hicks I can't help you. That's your problem.

I can. We can revisit it in November and see who's right.

Well what can I say, Brit is right. When I played linebacker it was simple. Go tackle guy carrying football. Any schmoe watching could have told you all my reads and responsibilities on any given play.


Btw, this post is brought to you by the number sarcasm.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don’t understand why this concept is so difficult for some posters to grasp. I mean, saying “wait for what could happen” is kind of an exercise in silliness considering that potentially includes the full spectrum from the cards doing nada to the cards trading for a slew of all pros for pennies on the dollar. We do know what exists now, so why not comment on it?

Honestly, I think the posters constantly attacking others are frustrated too, but they’d rather take it out on other posters because they can’t bring themselves to criticize the team for some unknown reason.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I hoo

You know what? I'm tired of arguing our own players are good.

Never have I come across such a bunch of negative BS. There is zero evidence Collins has issues and a stack of positive data. If you want to believe there's an issue feel free. I'm not going to be convinced.

I'll believe in our young players until proven otherwise. Collins more than any of them.

I hope Collins steps it up in his 2nd year like Andy Isabella did.

All kidding aside, I certainly hope Collins steps up. But last year showed very little. Of course you have to figure Bill Davis was “coaching” him. So there’s that.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Honestly, I think the posters constantly attacking others are frustrated too, but they’d rather take it out on other posters because they can’t bring themselves to criticize the team for some unknown reason.

Your frustration, frustrates me.

 

[Ronin]

Your frustration, frustrates me.

Your faith in this team is impressive. I don't have the faith you do.

 

[Devilmaycare]

Never have I come across such a bunch of negative BS. There is zero evidence Collins has issues and a stack of positive data. If you want to believe there's an issue feel free. I'm not going to be convinced.

I'll believe in our young players until proven otherwise. Collins more than any of them.

You keep saying there is zero evidence but ignore the biggest piece of evidence that we have, Vance sat him. That's more telling than any PFF grade. If he was playing at such a high level that would not have happened.

One thing that I haven't seen brought up, and PFF won't account for, is that he was the mike linebacker and responsible for calling plays. It's speculation but maybe he wasn't making the correct calls and getting things setup pre-snap correctly. That's a huge mental task that does not show up in the physical stats. VJ would know stuff like that while PFF won't. It might not be the cause, or sole cause, of him sitting but it could be a reason why playing time dropped while the stats still look ok.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Your faith in this team is impressive. I don't have the faith you do.

Who said I have faith?

 

[Dayman]

You know what? I'm tired of arguing our own players are good.

Never have I come across such a bunch of negative BS. There is zero evidence Collins has issues and a stack of positive data. If you want to believe there's an issue feel free. I'm not going to be convinced.

I'll believe in our young players until proven otherwise. Collins more than any of them.

If Vance felt more comfortable playing Walker and Vallejo over Collins, there are certainly issues. Unless Vance has such a personal bias against Collins that he would voluntarily make the defense worse by sitting their 1st round pick, which is a ludicrous theory at best.

 

[Shane]

Blow it out your ear hole. You conveniently forget how absolutely bouncing with joy all us darksiders were on our hot streak to begin last season. Man, you have a line of propaganda and you're sticking to it, regardless of reality.

Ehhhh I’d say it’s more like you had no choice. Due to how impressive it was initially. But couldn’t wait for the rails to fall off so you could all start with your “I told you so” line of reasoning you were all pushing before the season began….

 

[Krangodnzr]

Ehhhh I’d say it’s more like you had no choice and couldn’t wait for the rails to fall off so you could all start with your “I told you so” line of reasoning you were all pushing edits the season began….

That's my feel as well.

The team has issues sure. Lots of major, roster shaking issues down the stretch, poor QB play, and the defense couldn't hold up.

That doesn't mean everything on the team sucks and the sky is falling.

This is a fact: The 2021 Arizona Cardinals were one of the best teams in franchise history. If you took away context, you wouldn't believe that based on the board.

Right now the Cardinals don't look like a winning football team. I expected this. Go back and read what I was saying DURING the season. The writing was on the wall, the Cardinals weren't going to have much cap space.

Could this change? Absolutely. A good draft and add a veteran or two and this team could be playing well next year. It is possible.

 

[Ronin]

Who said I have faith?

Forget it.

 

[LoyalRam]

Now the Rams are looking at Honey Bedger. Tyrann Mathieu and the Rams are talking....

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[kerouac9]

You keep saying there is zero evidence but ignore the biggest piece of evidence that we have, Vance sat him. That's more telling than any PFF grade. If he was playing at such a high level that would not have happened.

One thing that I haven't seen brought up, and PFF won't account for, is that he was the mike linebacker and responsible for calling plays. It's speculation but maybe he wasn't making the correct calls and getting things setup pre-snap correctly. That's a huge mental task that does not show up in the physical stats. VJ would know stuff like that while PFF won't. It might not be the cause, or sole cause, of him sitting but it could be a reason why playing time dropped while the stats still look ok.

To be fair, Collins never got the chance to wear the green dot where we can see. Either Hicks was so good in camp and/or Collins was so bad the coaching staff had to install packages where Collins, Hicks, and Simmons were on the field at the same time.

Collins was apparently so bad he couldn’t play in schemes designed specifically to get and keep him on the field.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Your frustration, frustrates me.

Your frustration about cheeses frustration frustrates me.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ehhhh I’d say it’s more like you had no choice. Due to how impressive it was initially. But couldn’t wait for the rails to fall off so you could all start with your “I told you so” line of reasoning you were all pushing before the season began….

Sorry Shane that’s absolutely ridiculous. This is you telling stout he’s not a real fan. And frankly it’s lame as hell.

 

[Shane]

Sorry Shane that’s absolutely ridiculous. This is you telling stout he’s not a real fan. And frankly it’s lame as hell.

No way is it saying that…. Nice jump in logic though. There is a huge difference between wanting to gloat that you were right and just not being a fan. I have no doubt that if the success was maintained he and others woulda been Happy and willing to eat some crow even…. But all of you guys as the injuries occurred especially to Watt just couldn’t wait for the I told you so’s and finger pointing which wasn’t far behind. You guys have reveled in it ever since… do I think that makes you less a fan? No just like to be right and incessantly rub it in if you are

 

[Devilmaycare]

To be fair, Collins never got the chance to wear the green dot where we can see. Either Hicks was so good in camp and/or Collins was so bad the coaching staff had to install packages where Collins, Hicks, and Simmons were on the field at the same time.

Collins was apparently so bad he couldn’t play in schemes designed specifically to get and keep him on the field.

Fair and true. I was thinking of it from the standpoint of mike LB was what he was supposed to be his roll and the lack of him doing it shows that there was probably mental issues that caused him not to play.