Rams continue to grow money: sign Bobby Wagner

[kerouac9]

Which includes his stake in the team.. a team that is near the bottom in the NFL in revenue...

Dude... Crying poverty as an excuse for this team is RIDICULOUS. They're 22nd out of 32 teams in revenue -- in the middle third. $8 million in annual revenue separates them from the 16th team (2.2% of the total).

Less than 5% annual revenue separates the Cards from the 10th-most earning team in the NFL. The fact of the matter is that in a cartel like the NFL, incomes are relatively flat.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You guys are ridiculous.

This team has always struggled with cash flow. Numerous people with inside info have said as much on this board over the years.

The practice of pushing out tons of cap money into future years isn't done by many teams, and really isn't done by ANY of the poorer owners.

It can be done, but the vast majority of teams aren't doing it.

And no team with a cash poor owner(ship) is doing it. None. It's a ridiculous argument.

I'm not excusing not doing it. The Cardinals have done so this off-season and last offseason as well. If you want owners to do more, then follow another team because the Cardinals clearly aren't going to do more.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You guys are ridiculous.

This team has always struggled with cash flow. Numerous people with inside info have said as much on this board over the years.

The practice of pushing out tons of cap money into future years isn't done by many teams, and really isn't done by ANY of the poorer owners.

It can be done, but the vast majority of teams aren't doing it.

And no team with a cash poor owner(ship) is doing it. None. It's a ridiculous argument.

I'm not excusing not doing it. The Cardinals have done so this off-season and last offseason as well. If you want owners to do more, then follow another team because the Cardinals clearly aren't going to do more.

They just bought a freaking plane. They are only one of two teams in the entire league with their own plane. If they have money issues, maybe they need to pull their heads out of their asses and spend in it for players on the field instead of luxury in the air.

And telling fans to go root for another team because this one is too cheap to compete is crap and pointless. You know fandom doesn’t work that way.

 

[Krangodnzr]

They just bought a freaking plane. They are only one of two teams in the entire league with their own plane. If they have money issues, maybe they need to pull their heads out of their asses and spend in it for players on the field instead of luxury in the air.

And telling fans to go root for another team because this one is too cheap to compete is crap and pointless. You know fandom doesn’t work that way.

I do. I'm just suggesting it because complaining about issues that won't change is insane.

Life is so much better when you accept what can change and what won't.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I do. I'm just suggesting it because complaining about issues that won't change is insane.

Life is so much better when you accept what can change and what won't.

How about you accept that on a message board for the team, fans are going to use that board to vent and be pissed about a team not willing or able to compete. May be try and apply that last statement to yourself so your life will be better here, because you sure as hell seem pretty annoyed, consistently going at other fans repeatedly in every thread.

 

[BritCard]

They just bought a freaking plane. They are only one of two teams in the entire league with their own plane. If they have money issues, maybe they need to pull their heads out of their asses and spend in it for players on the field instead of luxury in the air.

And telling fans to go root for another team because this one is too cheap to compete is crap and pointless. You know fandom doesn’t work that way.

To be fair I highly doubt Mike paid cash for the plane. He might not even own it, it might be leased.

 

[BritCard]

How about you accept that on a message board for the team, fans are going to use that board to vent and be pissed about a team not willing or able to compete.

That would be cool, if that's what was happening.

Venting and being pissed 6 months before the season starts and before the draft with tonnes of good FA's still available. Well that's something else entirely.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That would be cool, if that's what was happening.

Venting and being pissed 6 months before the season starts and before the draft with tonnes of good FA's still available. Well that's something else entirely.

It’s venting about WHERE THE TEAM IS RIGHT NOW.

What you’re suggesting is either the board should shut down for six months or anyone with a negative opinion should shut up until then. That’s not how the board.., or really ANYTHING in the world works. People talk about issues right in front of them on a message board. Shocker.

 

[BritCard]

It’s venting about WHERE THE TEAM IS RIGHT NOW.

What you’re suggesting is either the board should shut down for six months or anyone with a negative opinion should shut up until then. That’s not how the board.., or really ANYTHING in the world works. People talk about issues right in front of them on a message board. Shocker.

You're not though. People are talking about invented issues. Born out of relentless pessimism. People that called Kirk a JAG for 4 years are now concerned that 2nd round pick Rondale Moore can't adequate replace him. People that relentlessly piled on Hicks for years are now concerned #16 overall pick Zaven Collins can't replace him.

If what we see now is still the case in early May it's probably an issue. But right now, it's not.

 

[Ronin]

You're not though. People are talking about invented issues. Born out of relentless pessimism. People that called Kirk a JAG for 4 years are now concerned that 2nd round pick Rondale Moore can't adequate replace him. People that relentlessly piled on Hicks for years are now concerned #16 overall pick Zaven Collins can't replace him.

If what we see now is still the case in early May it's probably an issue. But right now, it's not.

Can he? I'm not so sure he can.

 

[BritCard]

Can he? I'm not so sure he can.

Collins is going to be legit. Bank it.

He was already better or as good as in tackling and coverage in his limited snaps. Most of which came when he was at his most raw. And he also out graded Hicks per PFF.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You're not though. People are talking about invented issues. Born out of relentless pessimism. People that called Kirk a JAG for 4 years are now concerned that 2nd round pick Rondale Moore can't adequate replace him. People that relentlessly piled on Hicks for years are now concerned #16 overall pick Zaven Collins can't replace him.

If what we see now is still the case in early May it's probably an issue. But right now, it's not.

Holy crap dude. All you do is create straw men, lump everyone together to create a mythical pessimist so you can insult people and generally derail every thread attacking other fans instead of talking football.

I’ll take Krang’s advice and accept that you’re just a pathetic troll, won’t change and exists on this board mainly yo attack others because it obviously makes you feel better about yourself. I’ll enjoy the board more that way.

 

[phillycard]

So why as cardinals fans do we constantly give benefit of the doubt to guys who dont make impacts right away? Are we that used to losing that we just are so on the hopium to believe in development? I for once would like players to make impacts when we draft them. That has been a big lacking elephant in the room. Too many years do we just keep smoking that hopium and rarely recieve benefits. Also he may very well reach that #3 WR spot. But he is not a #2 in any way. come on everyone.

It's not just Cardinal fans. Most sane fans temper expectations based on where the player was drafted, and what they were drafted for. Naturally, expectations are jacked up for first rounders, but it's entirely realistic to go easy with the "oh, he's trash" proclamations after one season. The pro game is not an easy one to learn. Some come in and hit the ground running while others need a year or two. I'm with you in that Rondale didn't blow us away, but were you not satisfied in the early part of the season where we saw flashes of what he could do? It's incumbent upon the staff to develop him for sure, but it's also on him to do what he needs to in order to elevate his game. I'm willing to allow him that chance.

 

[BritCard]

Holy crap dude. All you do is create straw men, lump everyone together to create a mythical pessimist so you can insult people and generally derail every thread attacking other fans instead of talking football.

I’ll take Krang’s advice and accept that you’re just a pathetic troll, won’t change and put you on ignore. I’ll enjoy the board more that way.

Darksiders accusing others of derailing every thread is peak hilarity. Y'all turn every thread into hell spiral of misery. You would think we supported the Jags.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I know you've asserted that the Bidwills are cash poor in comparison to other teams around the league, but where's the support for the assertion that it's preventing them from signing players?

I know Harry vaguely waved at this question in his thread, but honestly, there's no evidence to support that the Cards lack the liquidity to pay for big deals up-front.

Could Michael pay off whatever debt remains on the stadium tomorrow? Probably not. Could he find $20 million to pay as a signing bonus to Javedeon Clowney? No question.

The economics of the league have not shifted this much.

Or if they have, and you can't compete, then get out of the game! Take your hundreds of millions of dollars and go away - guys like Kendrick that talk about fiscal responsibility and being "good stewards" are the guys that go to Vegas with $50 to gamble. What's the point?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

You would think we supported the Jags.

WE ARE THE JAGS!!!! How delusional can you be? Do you need it right in your face?!?

NFL teams highest all time winning percentage 2024 | Statista

Only two teams in the NFL have an all time winning percentage of over 57 percent - the Dallas Cowboys and the Green Bay Packers.

www.statista.com

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Collins is going to be legit. Bank it.

He was already better or as good as in tackling and coverage in his limited snaps. Most of which came when he was at his most raw. And he also out graded Hicks per PFF.

The anointed started from day one and signal caller couldn't beat randos off the street for snaps. I appreciate positivity, but this is absurd.

 

[Stout]

You're not though. People are talking about invented issues. Born out of relentless pessimism. People that called Kirk a JAG for 4 years are now concerned that 2nd round pick Rondale Moore can't adequate replace him. People that relentlessly piled on Hicks for years are now concerned #16 overall pick Zaven Collins can't replace him.

If what we see now is still the case in early May it's probably an issue. But right now, it's not.

It's possible to think Kirk wasn't anything special and think RM won't be an adequate #2 WR. It's possible to have not been high on Hicks OR Collins, like myself. What you're describing are not mutually exclusive opinions.

 

[kerouac9]

You're not though. People are talking about invented issues. Born out of relentless pessimism. People that called Kirk a JAG for 4 years are now concerned that 2nd round pick Rondale Moore can't adequate replace him. People that relentlessly piled on Hicks for years are now concerned #16 overall pick Zaven Collins can't replace him.

If what we see now is still the case in early May it's probably an issue. But right now, it's not.

You're making blanket assertions about Moore and Collins that aren't backed by any evidence as just "lock it in." Those are legitimate reasons for fans to be concerned. You can just dismiss them out of hand, but that doesn't change anything.

You could have said last season that it's NBD that we cut Devondre Campbell because we had Isaiah Simmons waiting in the wings who will definitely be better because he's a high pick. Campbell was a 1st team All Pro last year and Simmons was yielding snaps to Tanner-freaking-Vallejo in the last third of the season.

It is a concern that Zaven Collins couldn't unseat a player people relentlessly piled on for three years. You can't even come up with a coherent argument for why Collins couldn't beat out Hicks -- and he didn't beat out Hicks this season, either.

It is the case right now that the Cards lack:

• A replacement-level outside receiver to replace A.J. Green/Christian Kirk
• An improved offensive line that many believe was a contributing factor to the late-season collapse
• Two above-replacement-level defensive linemen who can play 50% or more of the available defensive snaps
• An above-replacement-level edge rusher to replace the 824 defensive snaps that Chandler Jones played

You can make the argument that the Cards aren't improved from the 2021 team, but that's not a big deal because most of the NFC decided that they'd punt on 2022 and are actively tanking now. That's a fair point to make and debate.

It's really hard to make the case that without Christian Kirk, A.J. Green, Chandler Jones and Chase Edmonds and no clear replacements/upgrades coming in (and at most you're going to supplement two of those players with draft prospects of any immediate promise) that this team is just as good or better than the one that went 11-6 last season.

I mean, you can if you do a lot of wish-casting, but that's not real.

 

[gimpy]

Well, I’m going to say something here. Keep in mind that I think I am mostly a kool-aider.
Start
For somebody that accuses other posters from the “other?” side of attacking people, etc., I think it is pretty telling that in the same post he calls someone a “pathetic troll”?

i have been on other non-sports forums that when exchanges between posters get just a little heated or derogatory, or violate the posting rules or whatever, mods come right in and stop it before it goes any further. No discussion on the thread (maybe private email?). They will usually “clean” up the thread by removing the offending post(s) or closing the thread completely.

But, I don’t know how plausible that would be on here, since this is kind of a “family” type of forum, and family members do argue and disagree amongst themselves occasionally (maybe all the time?). In the end we all want the same thing, a Cardinals Super Bowl with nothing but success for them (and the other sports teams on our forum). end

Love you all. I’ll go back into my little cubby hole for awhile now.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Looking at Wagners Contract it is basically a 2 year $17M deal.

Wagner will cost:

$2.5M against the cap this season
$12M against the cap in 2023

Then the Rams can cut him for a $3M cap hit in 2024

 

[BritCard]

You're making blanket assertions about Moore and Collins that aren't backed by any evidence as just "lock it in." Those are legitimate reasons for fans to be concerned. You can just dismiss them out of hand, but that doesn't change anything.

You could have said last season that it's NBD that we cut Devondre Campbell because we had Isaiah Simmons waiting in the wings who will definitely be better because he's a high pick. Campbell was a 1st team All Pro last year and Simmons was yielding snaps to Tanner-freaking-Vallejo in the last third of the season.

It is a concern that Zaven Collins couldn't unseat a player people relentlessly piled on for three years. You can't even come up with a coherent argument for why Collins couldn't beat out Hicks -- and he didn't beat out Hicks this season, either.

It is the case right now that the Cards lack:

• A replacement-level outside receiver to replace A.J. Green/Christian Kirk
• An improved offensive line that many believe was a contributing factor to the late-season collapse
• Two above-replacement-level defensive linemen who can play 50% or more of the available defensive snaps
• An above-replacement-level edge rusher to replace the 824 defensive snaps that Chandler Jones played

You can make the argument that the Cards aren't improved from the 2021 team, but that's not a big deal because most of the NFC decided that they'd punt on 2022 and are actively tanking now. That's a fair point to make and debate.

It's really hard to make the case that without Christian Kirk, A.J. Green, Chandler Jones and Chase Edmonds and no clear replacements/upgrades coming in (and at most you're going to supplement two of those players with draft prospects of any immediate promise) that this team is just as good or better than the one that went 11-6 last season.

I mean, you can if you do a lot of wish-casting, but that's not real.

I've pointed out several times there was no tangible reason Collins didn't start. He was statistically better than Hicks and graded better. He was vastly superior in all those areas to Vallejo.

There seems to be an assumption that the better player automatically gets the start but we all know that's not true. All coaches have their favorites and this org more than most has often been biased towards vets.

It was pure garbage from Davies and Vance that Collins didn't play much more.

 

[Stout]

I've pointed out several times there was no tangible reason Collins didn't start. He was statistically better than Hicks and graded better. He was vastly superior in all those areas to Vallejo.

There seems to be an assumption that the better player automatically gets the start but we all know that's not true. All coaches have their favorites and this org more than most has often been biased towards vets.

It was pure garbage from Davies and Vance that Collins didn't play much more.

You can't trot out PFF numbers (which are, at best, sketchy) on very limited snaps and come to any conclusions like that with any kind of knowledge or accuracy. C'mon, man.

 

[BritCard]

You can't trot out PFF numbers (which are, at best, sketchy) on very limited snaps and come to any conclusions like that with any kind of knowledge or accuracy. C'mon, man.

Sure I can. The number of snaps has no bearing at all.

PFF grade every snap in isolation. The quantity doesn't matter.

A few games into his rookie season Simmons had a grade of 28. Collins after a few games was high 70s. By mid November it was 73.

Its obvious from our eyes and those grades that there were no Simmons like mistakes.

There were absolutely no reasons based on performance for Collins to lose snaps.

 

[Stout]

Sure I can. The number of snaps has no bearing at all.

PFF grade every snap in isolation. The quantity doesn't matter.

A few games into his rookie season Simmons had a grade of 28. Collins after a few games was high 70s. By mid November it was 73.

Its obvious from our eyes and those grades that there were no Simmons like mistakes.

There were absolutely no reasons based on performance for Collins to lose snaps.

lol Okay. There's no getting through to you. If you can't understand that PFF has ABSOLUTELY ZERO knowledge of play call or responsibility, I don't know what to tell you. At best, at maximum, PFF stats are complementary. At worst, as in here, they're pretty much meaningless. By your rational, someone that had 5 plays a game over a season but graded out well in those plays has a great chance to start and be good. That's just really poor reliance on fallible statistics.

If your only argument is "But, PFF!" you have no argument.