Rapoport: Cardinals trading out of #3 very very likely

[BulldogCard]

Sarcasm?

No, quite the opposite.

 

[BritCard]

I get what you're saying, but most GMs aren't fired because things are looking great, and few GMs leave the game on their own terms.

Monti is probably in a better position because at least he has a potential/likely/bona fide franchise quarterback in-house and under contract.

Honestly, I think at #3 he'd be better off with no QB normally.

Having a generally unliked, highly paid QB is a potential albatross for him. If this new staff can't get him turned around quickly it's potentially 3 more years of mediocrity due to a player he didn't pick.

The ACL is just a cherry on the top for the coming season. It makes it almost impossible to make decisions at this stage. How can you sign a bunch of big ticket vets if he might miss a large chunk of the season? He just wasted all that money. But what if he monsters the recovery and is back for game 2 or 3 and you haven't done enough to help him?

Real damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. One we would probably complain about either way.

I think the only thing he can really do right now is try build up the depth and ace the draft. See how Kyler goes through the Summer and see what they can add later.

He still has work to do though. Even if we are rolling with McCoy (which I expect until Kyler becomes clearer) they still need a backup QB and there are still guys out there he could add that would be reasonable value to offer beyond next year.

DJ Chark for example is 26, should cost no more than $7 and has lots of upside. Murphy-Bunting, Rashad Fenton and Rock Ya-Sin are young, cheap and would provide depth and starter potential at CB. Matt Ioannidis would help on the DL for not much money. All these guys have some kind of warts to fix but would improve the team.

So I'm not saying it's ok for him to do nothing.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Honestly, I think at #3 he'd be better off with no QB normally.

Having a generally unliked, highly paid QB is a potential albatross for him. If this new staff can't get him turned around quickly it's potentially 3 more years of mediocrity due to a player he didn't pick.

The ACL is just a cherry on the top for the coming season. It makes it almost impossible to make decisions at this stage. How can you sign a bunch of big ticket vets if he might miss a large chunk of the season? He just wasted all that money. But what if he monsters the recovery and is back for game 2 or 3 and you haven't done enough to help him?

Real damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. One we would probably complain about either way.

I think the only thing he can really do right now is try build up the depth and ace the draft. See how Kyler goes through the Summer and see what they can add later.

He still has work to do though. Even if we are rolling with McCoy (which I expect until Kyler becomes clearer) they still need a backup QB and there are still guys out there he could add that would be reasonable value to offer beyond next year.

DJ Chark for example is 26, should cost no more than $7 and has lots of upside. Murphy-Bunting, Rashad Fenton and Rock Ya-Sin are young, cheap and would provide depth and starter potential at CB. Matt Ioannidis would help on the DL for not much money. All these guys have some kind of warts to fix but would improve the team.

So I'm not saying it's ok for him to do nothing.

Yeah there still is talent out there. I think the Cardinals are mostly waiting on the next wave of free agency and will add a Ya-Sin type CB.

As you have said in the past Ya-Sin and Murphy are fairly identical career wise.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

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[Stout]

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lol Now that is straight out of fantasy land. Did Walter come up with that?

 

[BritCard]

lol Now that is straight out of fantasy land. Did Walter come up with that?

It makes no sense.

In effect were getting Dane Jackson, Gabe Davis and Bills 2nd and 5th for Hopkins.

Then trading Davis and Pick 3 to Vegas for Pick 7, a 3rd, 5th and 6th in '23 and a 1st and 3rd in '24.

Bills would need a massive tube of lube.

 

[BirdGangThing]

lol Now that is straight out of fantasy land. Did Walter come up with that?

I believe he posted that same fantasia on another thread too lol

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I am really noticing that this season, more than others I remember, teams are doing what I always thought should be a good strategy. They seem to not be offering a 3rd contract to the best players they had drafted 7-8 years ago, around the time they are getting close to 30 years old. Instead of paying those super high contracts they are simply letting them go to FA, if they haven't had any luck trading them over the last year or so, and instead simply drafting in preparation for that a year or two prior.

This is when we have always thought of players being in their prime, when worth the most and costing the most. I always thought that would work and wondered why some team didn't take more of an approach like this, instead of limiting their team options by committing so much money to one or two star players. Maybe some finally started to hear me! ha ha.

Does anyone else notice the beginnings of this approach taking shape this off-season with some teams?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I get what you're saying, but most GMs aren't fired because things are looking great, and few GMs leave the game on their own terms.

Monti is probably in a better position because at least he has a potential/likely/bona fide franchise quarterback in-house and under contract.

As well as a built in excuse for a terrible first season.

 

[CFLredzoned]

Celebration!

Let's be positive and look at things from a half-glass-full perspective.

We're celebrating the Diamond anniversary of losing this year. 75 years since the '48 championship.

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I thought it was interesting on Flight Plan to learn that a woman, Violet Bidwill was the owner the one year the Cardinals won a championship. So none of the dudes ever had it in them. Hilarious!

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I thought it was interesting on Flight Plan to learn that a woman, Violet Bidwill was the owner the one year the Cardinals won a championship. So none of the dudes ever had it in them. Hilarious!

They should put Nicole in charge for a while.

 

[CFLredzoned]

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I'm with @BritCard on this. If you have a good young player on your roster, you should re-sign him before he reached free agency and he's less expensive (Brit doesn't believe this is possible).

I think achieving this goal is especially hard this offseason because Monti doesn't have his own scouting group in place yet, the coaches don't really know what to ask for, etc., etc.

I think we might find some values and gems in next free agency once Monti has a staff he trusts and the coaches can communicate what the do and don't want. Especially when the process can start in early January instead of with the Combine.

I have my doubts that we'll be able to do that, TBH, even with all the time in the world. I suspect that we're going to try and just hit some singles and doubles in the draft and see what we can do with a full staff and a high draft pick in each round next year.

Even Bidwill came out and talked about how the drafting styles are so different, the 2023 and 2024 drafts will look nothing like each other.

 

[QuebecCard]

Cooks from Texans to Cowboys.

Another door closes re: DHop

 

[football karma]

since Harry's "Indy Rumor" thread has gone off the rails into SB retrospectives --

it appears that Monti's message to Mike was that the core of the team had to be made via the draft and that those flash in the pan rosters that Keim put together were the result of an over reliance on free agents.

Or maybe -- no big $ free agents until the core of the team is built out.

granted: it doesnt explain Allen or Murphy. There might be an element of "we think player is worth X, other team offered 125% of X, so we wont match" Patriot way in there .....

i think it also explains the Indy rumor, but they turned around the causality: the Cards may have told people their emphasis will be the draft and acquiring picks and not FA leading people to assume a trade down going to happen

 

[Chopper0080]

Yeah there still is talent out there. I think the Cardinals are mostly waiting on the next wave of free agency and will add a Ya-Sin type CB.

As you have said in the past Ya-Sin and Murphy are fairly identical career wise.

Having watched Ya-Sing, they aren’t.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Having watched Ya-Sing, they aren’t.

Based on???

Rock Ya-Sin has given up a lower passer rating the past two seasons. Last season he gave up 20 points less.

 

[kerouac9]

Based on???

Rock Ya-Sin has given up a lower passer rating the past two seasons. Last season he gave up 20 points less.

He said having watched them play.

If you don’t like that answer, consider how The Market has treated each player. Which one has a job?

Coverage stats are not reliable indicators.

 

[Krangodnzr]

He said having watched them play.

I read that, but statistics don't back up that view at all.

If you don’t like that answer, consider how The Market has treated each player. Which one has a job?

The market isn't always rational.

Coverage stats are not reliable indicators.

And neither is "I watched that guy a few times".

 

[GatorAZ]

Just looked up Malik Willis’ numbers in 3 starts. I could see Tennessee calling their old executive for a trade up.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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Hell no

 

[BritCard]

Having watched Ya-Sing, they aren’t.

Based on???

Rock Ya-Sin has given up a lower passer rating the past two seasons. Last season he gave up 20 points less.

He said having watched them play.

If you don’t like that answer, consider how The Market has treated each player. Which one has a job?

Coverage stats are not reliable indicators.

Ya-Sin was one of the best man coverage corners in the league last year allowing only 40% of targets to be caught, not giving up a single TD and allowing a 46.9 passer rating.

This is the opposite of Murphy who's zone coverage stats have generally been twice his man coverage stats.

They are different but the same. They have similar athletic profiles (both limited athletes) and both are big hitters and physical tacklers but they have different weaknesses and strengths. You wouldn't replace one with the other in the same scheme but from a general talent level they are both pretty similar.

 

[slanidrac16]

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I would. And we’d be happy next year.

 

[kerouac9]

Ya-Sin was one of the best man coverage corners in the league last year allowing only 40% of targets to be caught, not giving up a single TD and allowing a 46.9 passer rating.

This is the opposite of Murphy who's zone coverage stats have generally been twice his man coverage stats.

They are different but the same. They have similar athletic profiles (both limited athletes) and both are big hitters and physical tacklers but they have different weaknesses and strengths. You wouldn't replace one with the other in the same scheme but from a general talent level they are both pretty similar.

If this were true, and not the result a noisy data set, why do you think Ya-Sin is still sitting out there in free agency? Are all 32 franchises stupid?

 

[RON_IN_OC]

If this were true, and not the result a noisy data set, why do you think Ya-Sin is still sitting out there in free agency? Are all 32 franchises stupid?

Why did the hyphenated dude from Philly just get a 1 year low offer from Lions. By all accounts he's being vastly underpaid and was expected to sign a multi year deal. Heck it's even less than Philly reportedly offered. He's going to a be a definite steal this year.

Supply and demand and value.