Rate the Suns Roster

[slinslin]

Assumptions:

1. You want to build a team that is a lock to win 50+ games a season.

Categories:

Franchise Player : Player that can carry your team with any average supporting cast to 50 wins.
Starter - Allstar : Player that is good enough to get on the allstar team every year
Starter - borderline Allstar : Player that can make an allstar team if he overachieves and enjoys team success
6th man - can score on his own and create
Starter - role player
bench - role player #7-10 next in line to back up a starter position
bench - benchwarmer #10-12 only plays in garbage time

How would you categorize the Suns players on a potential 50+ win team?

Steve Nash : Starter - borderline allstar
Marcin Gortat : Starter - role player
Aaron Brooks : 6th man (not if he plays poorly as last season)
Grant Hill : bench role player #7-10 (if he could again have a season like last season rating him as a starer - role player would be possible but it is unlikely given his age)
Channing Frye : bench role player #7-10
Jared Dudley : bench role player #7-10
Mickael Pietrus : bench role player #7-10
Robin Lopez : bench role player #7-10
Hakim Warrick : bench role player #7-10
Josh Childress : bench role player #7-10
Lawal, Siler, Dowdlell : benchwarmer #10-12

Markieff Morris : projected rating bench role player #7-10

As you can see I only rank Nash and Gortat as potential starter or above on a good team. Gortat would be a role player however. But he can clearly be a starter given the lack of top tier talent at the Center Position.
So in my opinion we do not have a starting material SG, SF and PF and since I do not expect or want Brooks back and it is doubtful he can recapture his peak play from 2 years ago we do not have a good 6th man either.

You could probably argue that Childress could be a tier higher based on what he was in seasons for the Hawks but not really.
Some will argue that Dudley can be a role player and starter on a good team but I think it is unlikely. Especially not at SG. And to classify him as the 6th man i think he lacks playmaking and ability to create offense for himself.
A typical 6th man type player would be Jamal Crawford or Ben Gordon imo.

 

[Mainstreet]

IMO, the Suns do not have the horses to win 50 games. So I keep coming back to why the Suns keep Nash. The only answer I see, besides marketing reasons, is the Suns plan to re-sign Nash to a reasonable contract in 2012 and then add some key additions in 2012 to play along side Nash and Gortat.

 

[elindholm]

For me the more immediate question is, who is the Suns' starting SG given the current roster?

 

[Mainstreet]

For me the more immediate question is, who is the Suns' starting SG given the current roster?

I think it is Childress as Dudley is more valuable coming off the bench. However, I do not believe either is the answer.

 

[Bodha]

This is horrible to look at


I remember the days of jason Kid, Marbury, Amare, The Matrix, Nash, Raja Bell, Joe Johnson

All on the same team, at around the same time. Incredible. Its revolting that we didnt win 3-4 championships in that timeframe. Its like we had an all-star team for like 6 consecutive years

 

[SunsTzu]

There is nothing on the team to build around. Nash is the only thing that prevented last years squad from being the worst team in the league and I see no reason to expect differently this year. Only now Nash is a year older and will be playing a condensed schedule.

 

[dodie53]

yucky roster.
ugh.

 

[Superbone]

I think it is Childress as Dudley is more valuable coming off the bench.

I'm kind of traditional in thinking our starting SG should be able to, you know, shoot.

 

[BC867]

I remember the days of jason Kid, Marbury, Amare, The Matrix, Nash, Raja Bell, Joe Johnson

All on the same team, at around the same time. Incredible. Its revolting that we didnt win 3-4 championships in that timeframe. Its like we had an all-star team for like 6 consecutive years

With a Power Forward playing Center and a Small Forward playing Power Forward plus five Guards (as you named above), the only thing revolting is that the Suns haven't learned in four decades that there are five positions on the court, not three, whether they are all-stars or not.

It is like a doorbell without a battery. No rings!

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm kind of traditional in thinking our starting SG should be able to, you know, shoot.

You might be surprised that Childress' career shooting stats are not that terrible given the minutes like in Atlanta. I'm not saying he is the answer at SG but he might surprise in a pleasant way if he were given more minutes.

http://www.nba.com/home/playerfile/josh_childress/career_stats.html

 

[Superbone]

You might be surprised that Childress' career shooting stats are not that terrible given the minutes like in Atlanta. I'm not saying he is the answer at SG but he might surprise in a pleasant way if he were given more minutes.

http://www.nba.com/home/playerfile/josh_childress/career_stats.html

You're right, it is surprising. I was, in fact, just going off of what I saw last year . This website confirms what I saw: 0.063 3 point shooting percentage. He surprisingly has a 0.343 career average. His form last year was just dreadful.

 

[Griffin]

This is what happens when you don't draft, and when you don't draft well. Rookies the Suns drafted (or acquired on draft day) and kept since Sarver took over:

2004: Jackson Vroman
2005: Dijon Thompson
2006: none
2007: Alando Tucker, DJ Strawberry
2008: Robin Lopez, Goran Dragic
2009: Earl Clark, Taylor Griffin
2010: Gani Lawal, Dwayne Collins
2011: Markieff Morris

 

[Mainstreet]

This is what happens when you don't draft, and when you don't draft well. Rookies the Suns drafted (or acquired on draft day) and kept since Sarver took over:

2004: Jackson Vroman
2005: Dijon Thompson
2006: none
2007: Alando Tucker, DJ Strawberry
2008: Robin Lopez, Goran Dragic
2009: Earl Clark, Taylor Griffin
2010: Gani Lawal, Dwayne Collins
2011: Markieff Morris

I wonder what happened to Dwayne Collins. The last I heard he was headed to Italy. I thought he might be a project PF that might develop.

Also if only the Suns had kept some of their draft picks that were traded to other teams.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/draft.html

 

[Covert Rain]

Wow our roster sucks. Although, there has got to be a PF or PG that sucks at their positions that we can play out of position and fill our hole at SG.

 

[sunsfan88]

I think it is Childress as Dudley is more valuable coming off the bench. However, I do not believe either is the answer.

I don't think Childress can play SG in our system. He's a SF despite being undersized.

I think Pietrus has a much stronger chance than Childress as the starting SG. He has prior experience starting for us, is a great defender and can shoot. Only problem is he shoots too much but that's something we're going to have to deal with.

 

[sunsfan88]

Starter - borderline Allstar : Player that can make an allstar team if he overachieves and enjoys team success

Marcin Gortat : Starter - role player

I don't understand that. Gortat played very impressive basketball after he got traded to PHX.

I think he's pretty much cut out for your definition of "borderline allstar."

This name may seem out of place in a list like this. However, consider this: If we only look at Marcin Gortat’s numbers after the trade to Phoenix he averaged a respectable 13 points and nine rebounds. In a Western conference that doesn’t have a lot of center talent (quick, name the best out West – is it Andrew Bynum, Nene, or Tyson Chandler? Really? Those are the choices?), it isn’t a stretch to think Gortat could get just a few more points and a rebound more and average 16 and 10 or so – and that might be enough to sneak his way into the All-Star conversation.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/coach-possible-first-time-nba-all-stars/

 

[slinslin]

The Suns were horrible, he plays alongside weak rebounder, he plays alongside Steve Nash

Gortat barely ever creates something himself, take his stats with a grain of salt on a good team he is a role player. He is not close to being an allstar.

 

[BC867]

Gortat barely ever creates something himself, take his stats with a grain of salt on a good team he is a role player. He is not close to being an allstar.

A role playing Center is something the Suns have avoided for decades. He doesn't have to be an All Star to be an important part of our team. Just a legitimate Center.

 

[slinslin]

A role playing Center is something the Suns have avoided for decades. He doesn't have to be an All Star to be an important part of our team. Just a legitimate Center.

For what it is worth the Suns had an allstar center just 2-3 years ago.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think Childress can play SG in our system. He's a SF despite being undersized.

I think Pietrus has a much stronger chance than Childress as the starting SG. He has prior experience starting for us, is a great defender and can shoot. Only problem is he shoots too much but that's something we're going to have to deal with.

I think Pietrus will be gone at the first opportunity. He didn't fit well with the Suns and he was just a gunner. Also his off season comments indicate he wasn't happy in Phoenix as he was wanting to go to greener pastures.

 

[slinslin]

Considering that nobody put his own rating of our players I assume that pretty much everyone agrees that outside of Nash and Gortat nobody on our roster is a viable starter on a good team.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think Dudley will become a solid starter. He is a very good defender, excellent shooter, always plays hard, and is just an all-around great teammate. I can definitely see him as a starting SF on a very good team.

Frye can become very dangerous if he keeps working on his rebounding/ defense/ low-post game.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

ESPN Outlook on the Suns In the Short/Long Term - prepare to be nauseous!

How it helps: The amnesty rule will give Lon Babby a chance to undo a disastrous summer that saw owner Robert Sarver throwing away money on free agents like Josh Childress and Hakim Warrick.

How it hurts: The Suns were another team pushing hard for major changes to the CBA. They didn't get them, and now it looks like there will be a long rebuilding process ahead in Phoenix.

The lockout also cost them Aaron Brooks, who inexplicably signed a deal in China with no NBA out just a week before players and owners reached a tentative agreement.

Immediate impact (this season): No CBA can undo the damage Sarver has done to the team in the past few years. In an attempt to save money, he gutted one of the most exciting teams in the league and is left with a roster of middling, overpaid players and Steve Nash. Nash is leaving sooner or later and the Suns will have to seriously consider moving him now if they want anything back.

Long-term impact (future seasons): Ehhhh. The Suns have Marcin Gortat going forward. But the rest of the team? It's going to be a frustrating few years for fans.

 

[Mainstreet]

Considering that nobody put his own rating of our players I assume that pretty much everyone agrees that outside of Nash and Gortat nobody on our roster is a viable starter on a good team.

Don't assume. Grant Hill could be a starter on some good teams. IMO, it is a no brainer and he plays on both ends of the court.

Because I think Dudley is better coming off the bench does not mean he could not be a starter on a good team.

 

[Mainstreet]

ESPN Outlook on the Suns In the Short/Long Term - prepare to be nauseous!

How it helps: The amnesty rule will give Lon Babby a chance to undo a disastrous summer that saw owner Robert Sarver throwing away money on free agents like Josh Childress and Hakim Warrick.

How it hurts: The Suns were another team pushing hard for major changes to the CBA. They didn't get them, and now it looks like there will be a long rebuilding process ahead in Phoenix.

The lockout also cost them Aaron Brooks, who inexplicably signed a deal in China with no NBA out just a week before players and owners reached a tentative agreement.

Immediate impact (this season): No CBA can undo the damage Sarver has done to the team in the past few years. In an attempt to save money, he gutted one of the most exciting teams in the league and is left with a roster of middling, overpaid players and Steve Nash. Nash is leaving sooner or later and the Suns will have to seriously consider moving him now if they want anything back.

Long-term impact (future seasons): Ehhhh. The Suns have Marcin Gortat going forward. But the rest of the team? It's going to be a frustrating few years for fans.

Will the Suns not retain the rights to Brooks as a RFA?