Ray Horton: "I, unequivocally, would have delivered Norv Turner."

[WildBB]

It does not matter to me if he could have gotten Turner or not now,it is the whole issue of him not letting it go already... geeez Horton's character is irritating the hell out of me now. He is a GREAT DC but acts like a kid.

Pretty curious, that it's still coming up at this point. Revisionist history.

 

[seesred]

They wanted Horton less than Turner. That is very clear to see. It must of happened in the two interviews. So we got the older guys a lot closer to me age. I wouldn't want me, i'd want a younger group with more energy!

GBR
40

 

[Dayman]

Kent Somers ‏@kentsomers
Interesting interview with Ray Horton on XTRA-910. Good radio. replaying at 5 pm. podcast link is here. http://bit.ly/14aNmjG

Here's the link to the interview.

After listening to it, I'm even more convinced Horton wasn't the right choice. He wouldn't even say Steve Keim's name for the first half of the interview. He's also psychotically hung up on where Jurecki got the info about his assistants. Joe's loose cannon assessment is very fitting.

 

[Darkside]

Ray needs some grooming on dealing with the media. I've no idea if he's telling the truth but I do know that if he could deliver Turner and still didn't get hired then it points to some other issues with himself that have nothing to do with the actual coaching of men. Dealing with other coaches is part of the job--they don't like to be disrespected when they lose and Horton was very disrespectful many times. And for those of you thinking its irrelevant--just about every team we played could have dissed our entire org but few if any chose to do so in the media. Professionalism still has its place--and I don't mean fake platitudes I mean honest professionalism. People hate on Billichik but he stands up there like a man and says we got our asses beat.

That being said, its almost irrelevant to me because as well as he did with our defense the games were still difficult to watch. Don't care if we go 5-11 again and lose those games 38-35 it will still be easier to watch than last year.


Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ray needs some grooming on dealing with the media. I've no idea if he's telling the truth but I do know that if he could deliver Turner and still didn't get hired then it points to some other issues with himself that have nothing to do with the actual coaching of men. Dealing with other coaches is part of the job--they don't like to be disrespected when they lose and Horton was very disrespectful many times. And for those of you thinking its irrelevant--just about every team we played could have dissed our entire org but few if any chose to do so in the media. Professionalism still has its place--and I don't mean fake platitudes I mean honest professionalism. People hate on Billichik but he stands up there like a man and says we got our asses beat.

That being said, its almost irrelevant to me because as well as he did with our defense the games were still difficult to watch. Don't care if we go 5-11 again and lose those games 38-35 it will still be easier to watch than last year.


Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

Nice post. Agree with everything you said here.

Steve

 

[DeAnna]

Here's the link to the interview.

After listening to it, I'm even more convinced Horton wasn't the right choice. He wouldn't even say Steve Keim's name for the first half of the interview. He's also psychotically hung up on where Jurecki got the info about his assistants. Joe's loose cannon assessment is very fitting.

I listed to the podcast. He sounded very contentious - At one point Bickley asked him why he was so hung up on this issue.

He also flatly denied he and Keim got into a heated discussion and wanted to know who Jurecki's sources were, lol. Maybe he was implying Keim was the source.

Kept saying you guys could've called me and I would've given you any information. Then Jurecki said he did call him, but never got a call-back.

He never did answer the question as to how/when he knew he would be considered "Plan B" by the Bidwills and how he felt about it.

A lot of spin control, I thought.

 

[Duckjake]

Ray needs some grooming on dealing with the media. I've no idea if he's telling the truth but I do know that if he could deliver Turner and still didn't get hired then it points to some other issues with himself that have nothing to do with the actual coaching of men. Dealing with other coaches is part of the job--they don't like to be disrespected when they lose and Horton was very disrespectful many times. And for those of you thinking its irrelevant--just about every team we played could have dissed our entire org but few if any chose to do so in the media. Professionalism still has its place--and I don't mean fake platitudes I mean honest professionalism. People hate on Billichik but he stands up there like a man and says we got our asses beat.

That being said, its almost irrelevant to me because as well as he did with our defense the games were still difficult to watch. Don't care if we go 5-11 again and lose those games 38-35 it will still be easier to watch than last year.


Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

On the other hand it sure was fun to watch the games while the Cards were winning 11 of 13 including wins over SF and NE thanks to the Horton defense.

This thread is so typical of sports fans. Two weeks ago Horton was a fan favorite. As best I can remember Horton never gave us any reason to think there was anything wrong with him. Now he's gone and suddenly he's a loose cannon and full of bull and not worthy of being a HC.

Gil Brandt said something Cards fans didn't like and he's too old and senile to know what he's talking about and not one poster came to his defense. Yet Tom Moore also a sr citizen still has it and numerous people come to his defense when age is made an issue.

Bruce Arians was passed over for every HC job in the NFL for 20 years and was only being considered as QB coach by AZ just a year ago is suddenly a great hire while Horton is not qualified because he didn't get hired this year.

You gotta love Cardinal football.

 

[Superfuzz]

Typical Ray. Talking big.

It's getting more and more clear we made the right decision not to hire this guy and his big mouth. He might be a great coordinator, but I just don't trust someone of his temperament as Head Coach. Gotta lead by example.

 

[Duckjake]

Typical Ray. Talking big.

It's getting more and more clear we made the right decision not to hire this guy and his big mouth. He might be a great coordinator, but I just don't trust someone of his temperament as Head Coach. Gotta lead by example.

Hero to Goat in just two weeks. So you like guys like McGinnis and Tobin better?

You'd think Horton was Buddy Ryan crazy the way you guys talk about him all of a sudden.

 

[Superfuzz]

Hero to Goat in just two weeks. So you like guys like McGinnis and Tobin better?

You'd think Horton was Buddy Ryan crazy the way you guys talk about him all of a sudden.

Let me be clear. What I am commenting on is his propensity to shoot off and gloat, not his ability to run a great defense. We saw it with the Patriots episode, and we're seeing it again. If people had problems with Whiz's vendettas against players (QBs), how do you think Horton would have handled that much power?

He's not crazy and he may make a good HC someday, but that's not the tone or example I want set for this team. We get it, you wanted to prove yourself, and you were frustrated. He didn't handle it like a pro.

 

[Duckjake]

Let me be clear. What I am commenting on is his propensity to shoot off and gloat, not his ability to run a great defense. We saw it with the Patriots episode, and we're seeing it again. If people had problems with Whiz's vendettas against players (QBs), how do you think Horton would have handled that much power?

He's not crazy and he may make a good HC someday, but that's not the tone or example I want set for this team. We get it, you wanted to prove yourself, and you were frustrated. He didn't handle it like a pro.

So how would a pro handle it? Not do an interview. Not tell the truth? I like guys who have a propensity to tell it like it is instead of stone faced coach speak. We are such hypocrites when it comes to sports figures. If they are outspoken they're loudmouth idiots and not professional. If they don't say anything they're egotistical snobs or bores or lack emotion.

About the only way for a coach to win would be to hire a team of comedy or other writers to do interview material for him. Hey Cheesebeef, a potential new market!

 

[Buckybird]

You guys crack me up bashing & throwing darts at Ray as well as others when they are no longer Cardinals.

IMO we will ever no the whole story, but IMO coaches don't generally lash out against teams when treated fairly. All I know is this, the Cards have had a so-called history of sticking it to players & coaches to some degree...just sayin.

Horton is now a Brownie & IMO he doesn't deserve our venom.

 

[Buckybird]

This thread is so typical of sports fans. Two weeks ago Horton was a fan favorite. As best I can remember Horton never gave us any reason to think there was anything wrong with him. Now he's gone and suddenly he's a loose cannon and full of bull and not worthy of being a HC.

.

well said Texan

 

[SunsTzu]

You guys crack me up bashing & throwing darts at Ray as well as others when they are no longer Cardinals.

IMO we will ever no the whole story, but IMO coaches don't generally lash out against teams when treated fairly. All I know is this, the Cards have had a so-called history of sticking it to players & coaches to some degree...just sayin.

Horton is now a Brownie & IMO he doesn't deserve our venom.

I'd like to voice my support for this sentiment. I found the turn on Horton once it was clear he wasn't going to be HC distasteful, but not surprising.

He's easily been the best coordinator the Cards have had since I've been a fan and wish him the best going forward.

 

[Superfuzz]

So how would a pro handle it? Not do an interview. Not tell the truth? I like guys who have a propensity to tell it like it is instead of stone faced coach speak. We are such hypocrites when it comes to sports figures. If they are outspoken they're loudmouth idiots and not professional. If they don't say anything they're egotistical snobs or bores or lack emotion.

About the only way for a coach to win would be to hire a team of comedy or other writers to do interview material for him. Hey Cheesebeef, a potential new market!

Sorry, but gloating about stopping Tom Brady just makes you like you don't belong. I for one, am fine with a coach whose personality some might describe as "boring" (at least when it comes to how handles the media), so you can't fairly lump me in with those people. I was never one of those who criticized Whiz for his temperament.

It seems we have a difference in preference about what kind of HC should be leading this team, and that's fine.

How would a pro handle it? By not publicly offering up hypothetical scenarios about what you'd have done if your ex-boss had promoted you instead of fired you. He's got every right to do that, but don't cry bloody murder if the Bidwills don't want to pay him millions of dollars of their money to coach 52 men to be disciplined and play disciplined football when he's been known to not exactly be couth in front of the media. I couldn't fault Mike Bidwill for potentially having made the judgement that "If he can't control what he says in front of a microphone, how can I trust him to control and manage a whole NFL team?"

As Cardinal fans we should know a thing or two about acting like we belong. We've got Larry Fitzgerald on this team, and he's being paid $128 million dollars for more than his hands, believe me. That's the kind of leadership and example-setting we need from the top.

 

[Azlen]

Horton didn't lash out against the Cardinals. He did exactly the opposite. He was very complimentary and gracious in the interview I heard on the radio today.
He was a great coordinator for the Cardinals and did some great things here. Many people thought he would easily be a head coach somewhere next year. He didn't though. He didn't even get a second interview anywhere else. The Cardinals passed on him. Does that mean he will never be a good head coach somewhere, of course not, but it should raise some flags to say that maybe there is a thing or two he needs to work on. We'll probably never really know what kept him from being hired, but I'm going to assume that there was a solid rationale behind it. Others may feel differently but it's all speculation and that's just the way it is.

 

[Duckjake]

Sorry, but gloating about stopping Tom Brady just makes you like you don't belong. I for one, am fine with a coach whose personality some might describe as "boring" (at least when it comes to how handles the media), so you can't fairly lump me in with those people. I was never one of those who criticized Whiz for his temperament.

It seems we have a difference in preference about what kind of HC should be leading this team, and that's fine.

How would a pro handle it? By not publicly offering up hypothetical scenarios about what you'd have done if your ex-boss had promoted you instead of fired you. He's got every right to do that, but don't cry bloody murder if the Bidwills don't want to pay him millions of dollars of their money to coach 52 men to be disciplined and play disciplined football when he's been known to not exactly be couth in front of the media. I couldn't fault Mike Bidwill for potentially having made the judgement that "If he can't control what he says in front of a microphone, how can I trust him to control and manage a whole NFL team?"

As Cardinal fans we should know a thing or two about acting like we belong. We've got Larry Fitzgerald on this team, and he's being paid $128 million dollars for more than his hands, believe me. That's the kind of leadership and example-setting we need from the top.

I can see that especially after the Denny Green Monday Night Meltdown but as Azlen wrote Horton didn't scream Bloody Murder at all. As for the NE episode, Horton wasn't gloating. The Cards were the first team to beat them there in what 100 years? All Horton did was talk about getting ready for that game months in advance.

"Everything that we did was based on what they did last year and what we thought they were going to do and a lot of it we took them out of their game plan so they didn't do a ton of it," Horton told the Doug and Wolf Show on Arizona Sports 620. "[The plan] was to confuse Tom Brady, to come up with some things he hasn't seen before, because it is different." The plan, which Horton said dates all the way back to draft week, was based on what kind of look the Patriots were giving the Cardinals. According to Horton, much of what they were able to read stemmed from what New England did with Aaron Hernandez. "We let Tom Brady tell us what kind of defense we were going to play," Horton said. "What I mean by that is we had looked at them and given our players some fantastic keys. We'd call the defense in the huddle, but if New England came out like this, we were going to check to that because we knew they were going to run the ball. The players did a great job."

Read more at: http://nesn.com/2012/09/cardinals-d...s-patriots-were-tipping-offensive-tendencies/

That's not gloating or out of bounds by any stretch of the imagination. That's just talking football which I wish more coaches would do.

But you are right we do have a difference of opinion on what we like in Head Coaches. I like guys like Mike Gundy at Oklahoma State as opposed to my HC Mack Brown.

 

[Superfuzz]

I think it is just a difference of preference. While I hated his playcalling and gameplanning (and penchant for QB vendettas), I always knew and liked the fact that Whiz wouldn't act like say, Pete Carroll, because we beat the Niners in 2011 or the Saints in 2010, or really act like it was a big deal and all so simple to beat the Pats in foxboro this year. As I said with Larry, that's a quality I admire and think makes for a great leadership trait. Now I'm not saying Horton is like Carroll, but this article makes it clear that Horton was talking up (or outright lying??) about how they stopped NE: http://www.revengeofthebirds.com/20...-brady-tipping-plays-false-cardinals-patriots

That's why I think it's NOT a good idea to talk too much football in the media (for a coach). It can turn around and make you look foolish, which IMO, it did in Horton's case. Ironically, the less you talk about something (and thereby the more shrouded in mystery your ways are), the greater your accomplishments seem. IMHO, he made it seem like it was a big deal stopping NE's offense and talked about it in the media a few days AFTER the game and went into details. From my POV, I just remember thinking that, would I respect someone like Fitz for talking to the media about "this is how I burned Marcus Trufant repeatedly last Sunday" after the game? It doesn't matter, you did it, you won, and I think it makes you look a little too proud to go over how you defeated your opponent and it was all so simple. Ray shoulda left it at walking the walk, but then he had to go ahead and talk the talk.

Once again, simply a difference of opinion between us.

 

[Azlen]

I can see that especially after the Denny Green Monday Night Meltdown but as Azlen wrote Horton didn't scream Bloody Murder at all. As for the NE episode, Horton wasn't gloating. The Cards were the first team to beat them there in what 100 years? All Horton did was talk about getting ready for that game months in advance.

Actually he talked about how he was able to spot something New England was doing to tip off their plays. He was gloating a bit and it wasn't received too warmly across the league according to reports. What he said he saw though, which he did share in at least the interview I heard, was also proven to be incorrect when looking at the game film. So I don't know if he was wrong or was embellishing things a bit.
They did have a great defensive plan that game but in that particular instance, he would have been better off letting the performance speak for him.

 

[Duckjake]

I think it is just a difference of preference. While I hated his playcalling and gameplanning (and penchant for QB vendettas), I always knew and liked the fact that Whiz wouldn't act like say, Pete Carroll, because we beat the Niners in 2011 or the Saints in 2010, or really act like it was a big deal and all so simple to beat the Pats in foxboro this year. As I said with Larry, that's a quality I admire and think makes for a great leadership trait. Now I'm not saying Horton is like Carroll, but this article makes it clear that Horton was talking up (or outright lying??) about how they stopped NE: http://www.revengeofthebirds.com/20...-brady-tipping-plays-false-cardinals-patriots

That's why I think it's NOT a good idea to talk too much football in the media (for a coach). It can turn around and make you look foolish, which IMO, it did in Horton's case. Ironically, the less you talk about something (and thereby the more shrouded in mystery your ways are), the greater your accomplishments seem. IMHO, he made it seem like it was a big deal stopping NE's offense and talked about it in the media a few days AFTER the game and went into details. From my POV, I just remember thinking that, would I respect someone like Fitz for talking to the media about "this is how I burned Marcus Trufant repeatedly last Sunday" after the game? It doesn't matter, you did it, you won, and I think it makes you look a little too proud to go over how you defeated your opponent and it was all so simple. Ray shoulda left it at walking the walk, but then he had to go ahead and talk the talk.

Once again, simply a difference of opinion between us.

I completely understand how you feel that way and its my #1 complaint about fans and the media. Gripe because all we get is coachspeak then claim guys look foolish because they say something that isn't coachspeak. However, I like it that guys talk about what worked and what didn't as long as they don't give away something that might be needed later in the season. I'd love to hear Fitz talk about what he did to get so wide open in the SB for that incredible TD. But I still say that a HC should hire a writer. I don't think there's ever been a more damned if you do damned if you don't occupation. Look at John McCay. He was hilarious and remained coach of the Bucs for 9 years despite going 44-81-1.

I can just see Bruce Arians interviews after games with Cheesebeef writing for him. Heck I'd pay for that.

 

[Azlen]

http://www.revengeofthebirds.com/20...-brady-tipping-plays-false-cardinals-patriots http://www.revengeofthebirds.com/20...-brady-tipping-plays-false-cardinals-patriots

Here is the correct link. You had an extra t in the word thought.

 

[Superfuzz]

Here is the correct link. You had an extra t in the word thought.

Thanks, my trackpad sucks.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I'd like to voice my support for this sentiment. I found the turn on Horton once it was clear he wasn't going to be HC distasteful, but not surprising.

He's easily been the best coordinator the Cards have had since I've been a fan and wish him the best going forward.

Yep.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You guys crack me up bashing & throwing darts at Ray as well as others when they are no longer Cardinals.

IMO we will ever no the whole story, but IMO coaches don't generally lash out against teams when treated fairly. All I know is this, the Cards have had a so-called history of sticking it to players & coaches to some degree...just sayin.

Horton is now a Brownie & IMO he doesn't deserve our venom.

I think Horton was the best thing about this team the past two seasons but that doesn't mean I can't dislike aspects about him. I didn't like his post-Patriots comments and a few things have come out during this interview/selection period that I don't particularly care for. It doesn't mean I don't wish him well or appreciate what he did for us.

Steve

 

[WarnerHOF]

There is nothing wrong with gloating when you're a elite DC in a small market.

It's a good way to increase the league and the public's awareness of your talents.