RB and Shelton Thoughts

[Walter Mitchell]

Edgerin James...way too expensive...and risky.

Sean Alexander...better choice for the money...but still too expensive.

Travis Henry...we could get him for a one year rental...for the price of L.J. Shelton...which is a good segue into my next thought...

If we don't get good guard play again this year...it won't matter who we have at RB.

Which begs the question...wouldn't it be wiser to trade Shelton for a guard? Or the chance to draft one of the top guards? (get a 2nd rounder, perhaps?)

The one might ask, why not keep Shelton and have him play RG? The problem is...Shelton has his mind set on returning to LT...and no one knows if he has the desire and toughness to grit it out at guard. That's a $3M gamble...so it's unlikely this will happen.

The sad irony is that there's a potentially devastating offense line already on the roster...but, the shuffle goes like this: LT Shelton--LG Davis--C Stepanovich--RG Ross--RT Wells. (I know...give it up...it's hard to, though)

Marcel Shipp is likely to return with a bang...some of us are forgetting how tough and good he is...Troy Hambrick is a solid power option and should come into camp in shape this time...Josh Scobey has developed a nice burst...Larry Croom may blossom after his stint in NFL Europe...and Damian Anderson will be a year stronger.

Furthermore...it would seem that if Benson, Brown or Williams is sitting there at #8...he'll be a Cardinal. And it would appear that this is the primary reason why the Cardinals have soured on the Travis Henry trade...and why all talk of Edgerin James, Sean Alexander and Travis Henry is moot.

They key, of course, for the Cardinals to feel free to snag one of the top three RBs at #8 is the re-signing of Renaldo Hill...or trading for a player like Patrick Surtain.

 

[arthurracoon]

Good stuff yet again Walter!

 

[slanidrac16]

I am not one that wants to go into this season with a rb stable of Shipp, Hambrick, Scobey and Croom.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Marcel Shipp is likely to return with a bang...some of us are forgetting how tough and good he is...Troy Hambrick is a solid power option and should come into camp in shape this time...Josh Scobey has developed a nice burst...Larry Croom may blossom after his stint in NFL Europe...and Damian Anderson will be a year stronger.

Furthermore...it would seem that if Benson, Brown or Williams is sitting there at #8...he'll be a Cardinal. And it would appear that this is the primary reason why the Cardinals have soured on the Travis Henry trade...and why all talk of Edgerin James, Sean Alexander and Travis Henry is moot.

QUOTE]

to rely upon shipp - a plodder coming off injury, hambrick - who proved he's no primary ballcarrier, scobey - who has no real ability to run the ball from scrimmage, croom - who is just a practice player, or anderson - do i really need to address this? is sheer folly.

 

[JeffGollin]

The sad irony is that there's a potentially devastating offense line already on the roster...but, the shuffle goes like this: LT Shelton--LG Davis--C Stepanovich--RG Ross--RT Wells. (I know...give it up...it's hard to, though)
I......like it!

With one exception. I'd keep Wells and his quick feet over on the left side and return Big to his old RG spot (forget about "putting him on the left side because we run there" bushwah. It didn't work last year anyway).

The O-line would wind up: LT Shelton, LG Wells, C Step, RG Davis RT Ross

 

[ajcardfan]

If we don't get good guard play again this year...it won't matter who we have at RB.

I put forth this sort of argument for years in regards to our running game, and I don't buy it right now. A decrepit Emmitt Smith got 937 yds and 9 TDs with those guards. Do you really think James and Alexander wouldn't have done any better?

 

[jefftheshark]

I am at a loss to understand the "too expensive" arguement for Alexander and James. If the Card's CFO is smart enough to get the best players possible for DG, while remaining under the current cap, I'm all for it. It's not like they are going to lower the season ticket prices if Shipp is our RB.


The Shark

 

[Walter Mitchell]

AJ: 900 yards for a starting RB in a 16 game season is not very good. You saw the games. How many times was Emmitt met in the backfield on running plays? We were awful up the middle. Awful.

Larry Croom played pretty well when he got in there last year. Give the guy some credit.

Regardless...we are most likely drafting a RB...and a potentially great one at #8. That's my main point...guess some of you missed it.

 

[football karma]

I dont get it.

We are paying Big Left tackle money. In his first year playing the position, he played awfully well, especially considering he had a bad knee for the last five games of the season. He played better (yes better) than Shelton did. Until that bad knee slowed him down, he pretty much beat up on his guy regularly. He manhandled Jason Taylor in such a way, I bet Taylor still has #75 nightmares.

Why are we insisting on turning him back into a guard? Dream all you want about putting him back inside, but Denny put him at LT and is keeping him there. We might as well speculate about trading for Peyton Manning.

 

[jefftheshark]

AJ: 900 yards for a starting RB in a 16 game season is not very good. You saw the games. How many times was Emmitt met in the backfield on running plays? We were awful up the middle. Awful.

#1 - This is the ultimate chicken or egg arguement. Old Emmitt vs. Bad Line. I'm on the Old Emmitt side.

#2 - Croom was a mediocre college back (I saw him play at UNLV). If you liked him, then it would be hard to not give the o-line some credit, because he is not going to ever be in the HOF.

The Shark

 

[Redsz]

I dont get it.

We are paying Big Left tackle money. In his first year playing the position, he played awfully well, especially considering he had a bad knee for the last five games of the season. He played better (yes better) than Shelton did. Until that bad knee slowed him down, he pretty much beat up on his guy regularly. He manhandled Jason Taylor in such a way, I bet Taylor still has #75 nightmares.

Why are we insisting on turning him back into a guard? Dream all you want about putting him back inside, but Denny put him at LT and is keeping him there. We might as well speculate about trading for Peyton Manning.

There is a group on this board who believe BIG should be a guard because he is such a good run blocker.

Quite frankly, I agree with you. It's just every time we bring up the line someone has to mention moving BIG to G.

 

[Walter Mitchell]

en fuego: Davis adapted reasonably well to the LT position...but if the Cardinals really want to run the ball, they are not going to get it done with three undersized youngsters in the middle. Period. To think that they will is a dream. Davis, at his size and strength can blow out most DTs in the NFL. Wells and Bridges can't even come close. Oliver Ross has a mean streak and he has the bulk and strength to get a push.

If we had guards who could get a push, then I'd have no problem keeping Davis at LT. Forget about LT money. Think about winning football games.

 

[wilycoyote24]

Edgerin James...way too expensive...and risky.

Sean Alexander...better choice for the money...but still too expensive.

Travis Henry...we could get him for a one year rental...for the price of L.J. Shelton...which is a good segue into my next thought...

I agree that James and Alexander are too expensive. We have more than just one hole on our roster. I am actually scared that a deal will happen for one of those two. I am just hoping that Green's comments were a ploy to drive down another running backs price in a trade, like Bennett, who I also don't like, but would rather have.

As for Travis Henry, I thought the issue wasn't that Green didn't want to sign him to a long-term deal. I thought it was that Green wanted a contract extension to take effect after this season and Henry wanted a new contract. Green didn't want to pay him an increased salary this season.

Anyways I would much rather have Michael Bennett and Edgerton Hartwell than just James or Alexander.

 

[Zeno]

AJ: 900 yards for a starting RB in a 16 game season is not very good. You saw the games. How many times was Emmitt met in the backfield on running plays? We were awful up the middle. Awful.

Larry Croom played pretty well when he got in there last year. Give the guy some credit.

Regardless...we are most likely drafting a RB...and a potentially great one at #8. That's my main point...guess some of you missed it.

Hey I agree with you 900 yards for a RB in 16 games isn't good but I attribute that lack of success more on the lack of talent at RB rather than the OLine play (not to mention the opposing defenses total lack of respect for our QB).

Croom stinks, if he isn't cut this year I'd be shocked. I have no faith in Shipp, he was just above average before his injury and I don't think he will return from an injury like that playing at the same level prior to the injury. Hambrick is a serviceable back-up, change of pace guy but he can't be counted on. Why not trade for a proven RB with some years left rather than draft one and hope he turns out to be great? This would allow us to use our first pick in the draft on a CB...another HUGE position of need.

As for your moving the OLine all over the place...why? Ross is a RT was signed as a RT yet you want to move him to guard, Davis is a LT is paid like a LT yet you want to move him to guard???

For whatever reason Green does not like Shelton period, he won't be starting at any position on the OLine, I think everyone needs to accept it, might as well get something for him rather than pay $3 million for someone riding the bench.

 

[ajcardfan]

AJ: 900 yards for a starting RB in a 16 game season is not very good. You saw the games. How many times was Emmitt met in the backfield on running plays? We were awful up the middle. Awful.

Larry Croom played pretty well when he got in there last year. Give the guy some credit.

Regardless...we are most likely drafting a RB...and a potentially great one at #8. That's my main point...guess some of you missed it.

First of all, Emmitt played 13 and 1/2 games tops. Yes, the totals were not great, but a top back, IMO, would've easily had 20-30 more yards a game, and all of the sudden, you have a back at 1,200 yards missing two entire games. Sure, Emmitt was belted in the backfield a lot, but he also surrender yards because he was slow, slow, SLOW! A top back is more important than a RG.

I'm not against keeping Shelton and playing him at G. I guess it could happen, but it's pretty remote.

 

[JeffGollin]

There is a group on this board who believe BIG should be a guard because he is such a good run blocker.
And others like me who get nervous watching speed rushers sometimes beat him badly (I'm not sure if it's due to lack of concentration or because his huge body makes his feet slow down.

 

[BigRedArk]

Some interesting ideas there Walter. I like Shipp too, but he doesn't seem capable of taking the pounding of a 16 game season. He would have a couple of really great games and then would look stiff, slow, and tentative for a couple, then would come back again to his peak for a couple it seemed to me. We definitely would need a solid backup for him if his past is a prediction for the future.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I really want us to keep Shelton. However I think he should remain at RT.

I like the following starting OL:

Davis (LT)
Wells (LG)
Step (C)
Ross (RG)
Shelton (RT)

Ross has experience at Guard and he is more of a Run Blocker. Shelton is more of a pass blocker and is more athletic than Ross. That's why I'd like to see Shelton remain at RT.

 

[joeshmo]

Leave the left side alone from Step to Davis and let them grow as a unit, something this oline hasnt done for years, with all of this rearranging and making guys learn new positions every year.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I really want us to keep Shelton. However I think he should remain at RT.

I like the following starting OL:

Davis (LT)
Wells (LG)
Step (C)
Ross (RG)
Shelton (RT)

Ross has experience at Guard and he is more of a Run Blocker. Shelton is more of a pass blocker and is more athletic than Ross. That's why I'd like to see Shelton remain at RT.

Thats what I'm talking about....

 

[cardsunsfan]

I really want us to keep Shelton. However I think he should remain at RT.

I like the following starting OL:

Davis (LT)
Wells (LG)
Step (C)
Ross (RG)
Shelton (RT)

Ross has experience at Guard and he is more of a Run Blocker. Shelton is more of a pass blocker and is more athletic than Ross. That's why I'd like to see Shelton remain at RT.

Yeah I was thinking that too if we can keep him, although Henry our football guru has always said that Shelton wasn't that great..

 

[spanky1]

I really want us to keep Shelton. However I think he should remain at RT.

I like the following starting OL:

Davis (LT)
Wells (LG)
Step (C)
Ross (RG)
Shelton (RT)

Ross has experience at Guard and he is more of a Run Blocker. Shelton is more of a pass blocker and is more athletic than Ross. That's why I'd like to see Shelton remain at RT.

That's how I see it as well.

 

[football karma]

One thing to keep in mind on the o-line was its total lack of experience last year--

LT--Big in his first year as LT
Wells--first year starting
Step--rookie
Bridges--first year starting
Shelton--first year on the right side


The media (especially local) is the first to point out how you cant count on a rookie to play like a vet, yet also ignore the improvement that is bound to come when those same players become more experienced.


LJ is a great guy -- but Harry thinks he is just okay, Denny doesnt think he cuts it, and even the fired Bob Wylie said something to the effect that "LJ is a good player...when you stay on him" Maybe Denny doesnt want a guy that you have to constantly stay on to get to peform.

 

[ajcardfan]

They did not sign Ross to that deal with even the slightest intention of playing him at G.

 

[john h]

Edgerin James...way too expensive...and risky.

Sean Alexander...better choice for the money...but still too expensive.

Travis Henry...we could get him for a one year rental...for the price of L.J. Shelton...which is a good segue into my next thought...

If we don't get good guard play again this year...it won't matter who we have at RB.

Which begs the question...wouldn't it be wiser to trade Shelton for a guard? Or the chance to draft one of the top guards? (get a 2nd rounder, perhaps?)

The one might ask, why not keep Shelton and have him play RG? The problem is...Shelton has his mind set on returning to LT...and no one knows if he has the desire and toughness to grit it out at guard. That's a $3M gamble...so it's unlikely this will happen.

The sad irony is that there's a potentially devastating offense line already on the roster...but, the shuffle goes like this: LT Shelton--LG Davis--C Stepanovich--RG Ross--RT Wells. (I know...give it up...it's hard to, though)

Marcel Shipp is likely to return with a bang...some of us are forgetting how tough and good he is...Troy Hambrick is a solid power option and should come into camp in shape this time...Josh Scobey has developed a nice burst...Larry Croom may blossom after his stint in NFL Europe...and Damian Anderson will be a year stronger.

Furthermore...it would seem that if Benson, Brown or Williams is sitting there at #8...he'll be a Cardinal. And it would appear that this is the primary reason why the Cardinals have soured on the Travis Henry trade...and why all talk of Edgerin James, Sean Alexander and Travis Henry is moot.

They key, of course, for the Cardinals to feel free to snag one of the top three RBs at #8 is the re-signing of Renaldo Hill...or trading for a player like Patrick Surtain.

L.J. for a one year rental of Henry?? no way Jose. L.J. is a quality player. I had rather trade him for a draft choice or another players than rent a player for one year. Actually I had just as soon keep him period. If he was on some other team and we were looking for a lineman we would look at him in a different light. Sometimes we do not see the forest for the trees. This guy is a really good player and we have him for 3 years at a really good price. You can bet one of our tackles goes down with an injury at some point this year. Worst case we put him at another position. Once he realizes he is staying I think he will come around and play where we want.