Reality Check - Roster Construction

[Cheesebeef]

It's like we're running a marathon & after the first 100 yards we're in last place & it's oh noes we suck & are going to lose. It's been 9 days since the start of the new league year & the sky is falling or not falling the way some want it to. That's the way I'm seeing things on this board.
It's way too earlier for the bitching & moaning. There will be plenty of time for that later on during training camp & the regular season & you know there will be lots of it.

you copy and paste this every year, huh?

 

[cardncubfan]

you copy and paste this every year, huh?

Find one post from years past where I wrote anything like this after 9 days of free agency. This has been the worst year in years with people complaining. More bickering on every side. It's not there's an m.o. for Monti or JG at their respective new jobs. We know absolutely nothing about how they will perform as GM & HC.

 

[oaken1]

It's like we're running a marathon & after the first 100 yards we're in last place & it's oh noes we suck & are going to lose. It's been 9 days since the start of the new league year & the sky is falling or not falling the way some want it to. That's the way I'm seeing things on this board.
It's way too early for the bitching & moaning. There will be plenty of time for that later on during training camp & the regular season & you know there will be lots of it.

Lmao...
Like it has to be either/or with these guys.
We had dudes bitching when we were 6-0

 

[DVontel]

@DVontel what do you think about Keion White as a 3T? 6'5 285 is light but might be able to beef up a little. Probably need a legit NT next to him but if you put him between Thomas and a NT it might keep him from being a run liability.

Scary he didn’t break out until he turned like 35.

 

[AZ Native]

Find one post from years past where I wrote anything like this after 9 days of free agency. This has been the worst year in years with people complaining. More bickering on every side. It's not there's an m.o. for Monti or JG at their respective new jobs. We know absolutely nothing about how they will perform as GM & HC.

Because they have never held that position. That is the worry,

 

[Phrazbit]

We can wax lackadaisical on how long the rebuild will take but Rome wasn't torn down in a day

Actually... I think it was.

 

[BritCard]

I think that @kerouac9 is 100% correct in stating that finding 4 starters in any draft is a tall task. It just rarely happens, even for the best teams.

I think the Cardinals should only plan for 2-3 starters from any given draft.

I agree with the "darksiders" that the Cardinals are missing the opportunity to add a few players NOW. An argument can be made that they have added ONE in Kyzir White this year.

We will know after the draft what the plan is. If the Cardinals trade down and get extra day two picks and future picks, they probably think that they can just fill all needs through the draft. This is a very dicey proposition. Only the absolute best front offices can pull this off and even then, they probably won't really compete for championships.

They don't have to get 4 good starters from the draft class next year and it is unlikely.

It's more likely they can get 4 good starters out of this draft class by the following year after a year of coaching and NFL training. And that's all we need.

 

[BritCard]

The Cardinals have drafted 3 or more long term starters in one draft one time in the 35 years they have been in the valley. We now have to do it in back to back years just for a chance to be competitive in 2024.

Questioning this line of thinking has now become a thought crime to the loyal base haha.

But we don't. We will probably have $100m+ in cap space in 2024.

Nobody is saying we have to find 4 good starters in this draft, never mind in back to back years. That's just made up.

What we can do is find a couple of good starters this year, and a couple next year. We can also find some role players this year that can develop into starters next year after a year of coaching. For example, a cornerback that mostly plays teams and has a subpackage role this year than can be starting slot next year or a WR that can return this year and be a WR3 next year.

We get 4 good starters and 3-4 role players or solid depth out of the next 2 drafts to add to the guys we already have and we supplement them with $100m+ of free agents next year. Or $50m and carry a bunch over to next year.

The FO is trying to get away from always being on the edge of the cap with no room to make moves and borrowing from future years. Also known as the Steve Keim era.

 

[BritCard]

this is my criticism

a plan that said: 2023 is a reset year, we will take our dead money hits and get rid of bad contracts so we can make the 2023 offseason the one where we load up

but thats not what is happening -- its been half measures so far.

It hasn't. The June 1st designations make absolutely no difference to next year. Either we use it, in which case it was needed or we don't, in which case it rolls over and wipes itself out.

There is no negative effect to it at all.

 

[BritCard]

I was about to say this isn’t hard for anyone to understand, but this isn’t a matter of understanding or not.

It is a matter of understanding and you don't understand.

 

[BritCard]

You're going back to Ertz and Conner lol

How. Many. Times. Do. I. Have. To. Explain. This.

Seriously. I must have replied with the same answer to this about a dozen times. It's tedious.

Nobody is backing Conner and Ertz. IT LOSES US MONEY CUTTING THEM. Not just this year, but next year. It costs overall about $300k more to get rid of them and replace them with far worse players.

The only positive out is trading Ertz when he is healthy. Which obviously won't be until after camp and probably until teams have seen him play a few games. Obviously that can't happen now so it's completely pointless talking about it.

Accelerating future dead cap is only advantageous when there are more than 2 years left on the deal.

So all the many, many dozens of posts from darksiders on this topic is completely wasted energy. So can we stop it now?

 

[Stout]

Lmao...
Like it has to be either/or with these guys.
We had dudes bitching when we were 6-0

Who?

 

[Stout]

How. Many. Times. Do. I. Have. To. Explain. This.

Seriously. I must have replied with the same answer to this about a dozen times. It's tedious.

Nobody is backing Conner and Ertz. IT LOSES US MONEY CUTTING THEM. Not just this year, but next year. It costs overall about $300k more to get rid of them and replace them with far worse players.

The only positive out is trading Ertz when he is healthy. Which obviously won't be until after camp and probably until teams have seen him play a few games. Obviously that can't happen now so it's completely pointless talking about it.

Accelerating future dead cap is only advantageous when there are more than 2 years left on the deal.

So all the many, many dozens of posts from darksiders on this topic is completely wasted energy. So can we stop it now?

Why are you still talking about Conner and Ertz? I commented wondering why you were talking about them because nothing I was writing about even remotely touched on them. Not only did you decide it was relevant to continue talking about them, you get exasperated with me about it. Jesus man, IDGAF about Ertz and Conner right now. Give it a flipping rest. You just crafted a whole post literally for nothing, on a topic I wondered why you were even bringing up again. This is getting sad.

 

[Stout]

The idea that spending 100 million dollars on free agents in one offseason being good strategy is just astronomically ignorant of how teams win in the NFL. It is Madden logic.

 

[BritCard]

The idea that spending 100 million dollars on free agents in one offseason being good strategy is just astronomically ignorant of how teams win in the NFL. It is Madden logic.

I didn't say they would. I said they would have $100m in cap space.

They would probably roll a bunch over to the year after too.

What it gives us the ability to do is sign FA's without backweighting deals so much which inevitably lead to dead money.

We would likely only sign as many FA's as we normally would (but higher end ones) but we won't be forced into positions where we are heavily back weighting deals continually to get players. How many of Keim's back weighted deals or void year deals borrowed from the future to fund another failed year? Meaning you have to do it again and again.

We still have $6m of Jordan Philips dead cap in 2023 and he hasn't played for us since 2021. That's a starting guard.

 

[Stout]

I didn't say they would. I said they would have $100m in cap space.

They would probably roll a bunch over to the year after too.

What it gives us the ability to do is sign FA's without backweighting deals so much which inevitably lead to dead money.

We would likely only sign as many FA's as we normally would (but higher end ones) but we won't be forced into positions where we are heavily back weighting deals continually to get players. How many of Keim's back weighted deals or void year deals borrowed from the future to fund another failed year? Meaning you have to do it again and again.

We still have $6m of Jordan Philips dead cap in 2023 and he hasn't played for us since 2021. That's a starting guard.

I can get behind that a lot more. Still, it won't be near enough to make us competitive in 2024 as we've not done what we needed to do this offseason to give us enough of a base to the rebuild. Ah well. 2025 it is.

 

[QuebecCard]

We can wax lackadaisical on how long the rebuild will take but Rome wasn't torn down in a day

Well, Rome was indeed pillaged and burnt more than once.

By the Vandals amongst others, and from this we get the term vandalized.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I can get behind that a lot more. Still, it won't be near enough to make us competitive in 2024 as we've not done what we needed to do this offseason to give us enough of a base to the rebuild. Ah well. 2025 it is.

The Cardinals CAN be competitive in 2024. It will take back to back, good drafts.

Let's say they nail this draft and walk away with three good starters and some good key backups. Then next year the same thing, only this time they spend in free agency and fill some big holes. They can do it. Will they? Time will tell.

 

[QuebecCard]

this is my criticism

a plan that said: 2023 is a reset year, we will take our dead money hits and get rid of bad contracts so we can make the 2023 offseason the one where we load up

but thats not what is happening -- its been half measures so far.

If we trade DHop we'll clear about $35m in 'dead' money in 2023.

What will exist in that part of the ledger will be quite manageable and not prevent the Cards from being players in FA in 2024.

Virtually every team has some 'dead' money charges year-to-year.

 

[Chopper0080]

Scary he didn’t break out until he turned like 35.

His journey is interesting. Went to Old Dominion as a TE and redshirted. Played TE his first season. Then position switched to DE, 3.5 sacks and 19 TFLs, 2nd all conference, that year. Sat out for covid season. Transferred and then broke his ankle. This past year 7.5 sacks and 14 TFLs.

 

[Harry]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Gannon's defense in Philadelphia hinged on not having to blitz constantly because the front four(?) was consistently able to pressure the QB - this leads me to believe Gannon would be all about some Will Anderson - even more than we are

True of Philly, but not necessarily Gannon’s call

 

[Cheesebeef]

The idea that spending 100 million dollars on free agents in one offseason being good strategy is just astronomically ignorant of how teams win in the NFL. It is Madden logic.

The idea of Bidwill spending 100 million dollars on FA in one off-season is astronomically ignorant of how the Cardinals work alone.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The idea of Bidwill spending 100 million dollars on FA in one off-season is astronomically ignorant of how the Cardinals work alone.

I hear ya, but if they legit have 100M next year, the Cards must spend 70-90. Teams must spend at least 89% of the cap over a four-year period, while the NFL as a whole must spend at least 95% of the cap.

 

[oaken1]

Who?

just off the top of my head? Chopper... every week dude was livid about how bad Vance's defense sucks

 

[BritCard]

The idea of Bidwill spending 100 million dollars on FA in one off-season is astronomically ignorant of how the Cardinals work alone.

This makes no sense.

Whether it be cap or cash any money spent in 2024 is just money he's not spending in 2023.