Rebuilding: Who and how?

[JCSunsfan]

Nash's demise is inevitable. While he is still playing at a high level, he does not have what is necessary to carry this roster. This team has to rebuild somehow. I hate the "blow it up" comments though. You do not blow it up without knowing where you want to go.

Rebuilding requires putting together a solid three player core of star/superstar types. From there, its just putting together a supporting cast.

Players can be targeted through the draft, free agency, or trade. So, if you you are blowing it up, who do you go after to establish and new core and how do you get them?

Seems to me, the first place you look is on your own roster. I do not see any player that would qualify as being part of a "big three" on a team that is retooling to go for a championship.

Nash, Hill, and Vince would be right now, but not for a team rebuilding now. Gortat might be a starter but has not shown that he is in any way part of that core trio.

Seems to me that any trades we make right now should be in going after a "big three" type of player. He needs to be young enough to be productive for 5 or 6 years at least.

 

[Chaplin]

I still like Josh Childress a lot. I know that's a minority opinion, but now that his splint is off, I'm expecting to see a lot more from him. He and Pietrus could be our logical Grant Hill replacements--Pietrus is the defender/3-point shooter and Childress the slasher and creator.

I like Dudley too, but he still is too inconsistent to be deemed anything more than a nice role player. Last year, I would have said Dragic was definitely part of the "young core", but this year something's not working for him. Maybe it's the way he's being called--he gets so many no-calls, he's approaching Nash levels (who IMO gets the least amount of calls for him in the league).

 

[JCSunsfan]

I would think that we forget the present roster balance. If we can get a wing player that is star/superstar caliber, we do it. We probably then need a pg and a big. I would like to think Dragic is that, but something is wrong.

It might be time to trade Nash. This is the first time I have said that. If a team in the hunt want's to part with something of real value for him, I would have to listen.

The whole Houston roster is for sale. Anthing there of interest?

 

[jagu]

I agree, Childress plays excellent defense and he is a smart player on offense who knows what he can do to score. I think part of Dragic's problem is that there is no chemistry with the bench players. Often times you see all of them standing in a semi circle stagnant and Dragic has no idea what to do. I hope we see that change because we saw a lot of glimpses of last year's Dragic this year. He needs to shoot free throws better though, your a PG!!

 

[Kolo]

We're in line for years and years of mediocrity. We'll ride Nash until he retires or leaves via free agency and we'll be left with enough mediocre players to barely miss the playoffs or be first-round fodder, and draft more mediocre players in the mid-first round.

Sarver just doesn't have it in him to do the right thing and blow it up. Nash to the Clippers (for example) would hurt the team in the short term, but it's the only realistic chance we have to compete for a championship in the next decade. Too bad it will never happen. This is a painful time to be a Suns fan.

(and re: the Clippers--doesn't Nash and another contract (Warrick? Frye?) for Baron Davis, Bledsoe, Aminu and picks make perfect sense for both teams? We get young talent that might make us truly competitive in a few years, and the Clippers become the 2005-06 Suns redux).

 

[Trifecta]

Our roster is filled with good backup quality players who could get away with starting on a contending team in a pinch if they were starting next to better players at other positions, but we don't have those better players. So I don't see anyone on our roster as untouchable in terms of trading for a rebuilding piece if the price is right.

One good thing about our roster is that almost everyone is movable and worth something in a trade, and no one is burdening us with a massive contract for years to come. Plus we have all our future draft picks available (for once!) as well as Orlando's next year.

So who do I think will be on the Suns roster in 5 years when we have finished rebuilding? I have absolutely no idea

 

[AzStevenCal]

Our roster is filled with good backup quality players who could get away with starting on a contending team in a pinch if they were starting next to better players at other positions, but we don't have those better players. So I don't see anyone on our roster as untouchable in terms of trading for a rebuilding piece if the price is right.

One good thing about our roster is that almost everyone is movable and worth something in a trade, and no one is burdening us with a massive contract for years to come. Plus we have all our future draft picks available (for once!) as well as Orlando's next year.

So who do I think will be on the Suns roster in 5 years when we have finished rebuilding? I have absolutely no idea

+1. We have a lot of players that championship squads would love to have coming off their bench with or the occasional start but that's all we have.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

We're in line for years and years of mediocrity. We'll ride Nash until he retires or leaves via free agency and we'll be left with enough mediocre players to barely miss the playoffs or be first-round fodder, and draft more mediocre players in the mid-first round.

You're right, we're in line for years of mediocrity. The good news - I think we might be first in line.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

Nash to the Clippers/Raptors/etc. is a pipe dream, even if we WERE trying to trade him. There is no way we will trade Nash and/or Grant Hill to a non-contending team. So that leaves us with really only a third of the league as far as potential partners. And there's not much out there. I think we were lucky to get what we got from the Magic. We got the 3 guys PLUS a pick.

If Nash doesn't ask to be traded and says he wants to stay here, what are we going to do? Yes, it's a business, but losing Nash is not a good business decision in the short term. We're stuck right now--all we can do is wait until the season is over and see what the CBA is going to look like--because GUARANTEED the NBA won't be what it is today.

 

[JCSunsfan]

We're in line for years and years of mediocrity. We'll ride Nash until he retires or leaves via free agency and we'll be left with enough mediocre players to barely miss the playoffs or be first-round fodder, and draft more mediocre players in the mid-first round.

Sarver just doesn't have it in him to do the right thing and blow it up. Nash to the Clippers (for example) would hurt the team in the short term, but it's the only realistic chance we have to compete for a championship in the next decade. Too bad it will never happen. This is a painful time to be a Suns fan.

(and re: the Clippers--doesn't Nash and another contract (Warrick? Frye?) for Baron Davis, Bledsoe, Aminu and picks make perfect sense for both teams? We get young talent that might make us truly competitive in a few years, and the Clippers become the 2005-06 Suns redux).

As I was looking at rosters, Nash to the Clippers looked like one of the good options. That team is full of young talent and doesn't need more picks. It just needs vet leadership. It might be a cruel thing to do to Nash though. You put Nash with that young talent and you would turn around very quickly.

Just don't think we could do it unless Nash buys in.

 

[jagu]

Sarver just doesn't have it in him to do the right thing and blow it up. Nash to the Clippers (for example) would hurt the team in the short term, but it's the only realistic chance we have to compete for a championship in the next decade. Too bad it will never happen. This is a painful time to be a Suns fan.

We might be headed to mediocrity but Sarver is doing what he should do as an owner of a business, keeping good players and keeping fans in the seats. Blowing it up may not work for many years but fielding a semi-competitive, affordable team is good for his business which I can totally agree with. Don't hate Sarver, the guy tries and he brings in players to try and win. We all knew losing Amare would hurt us but the Suns are a better team than their performance to date. Let them beat up on some low level teams and we'll see where they are at the end of the season.

 

[JCSunsfan]

We might be headed to mediocrity but Sarver is doing what he should do as an owner of a business, keeping good players and keeping fans in the seats. Blowing it up may not work for many years but fielding a semi-competitive, affordable team is good for his business which I can totally agree with. Don't hate Sarver, the guy tries and he brings in players to try and win. We all knew losing Amare would hurt us but the Suns are a better team than their performance to date. Let them beat up on some low level teams and we'll see where they are at the end of the season.

Blowing it up doesn't work unless you have a plan for after the explosion.

 

[elindholm]

So who do I think will be on the Suns roster in 5 years when we have finished rebuilding? I have absolutely no idea

No, of course not, there's no way you could. Only two current Suns were with the team in 2006-07, a mere four seasons ago: Nash and Hill. I think a lot of people tend to forget how quickly rosters turn over in the NBA. It's very likely that no one on the current team will still be around in 2015-16. (The only player whose contract extends that far is Dudley.) I suppose Lopez is the best chance, since the Suns will probably extend him, but even Dragic's days in Phoenix appear to be numbered, and obviously no one else on the roster is worth considering for the long term.

It's pretty much impossible to predict how the Suns will next return to relevance. It sure won't be behind the strength of anyone on the current roster. Perhaps they'll hit a home run in the FA market as they have done in the past (Chambers, Nash), or maybe they'll be in the right place at the right time when a superstar gets traded (Barkley). But most likely, they'll have to get lucky in the draft, and that probably won't happen until they've had at least a few spins of the wheel.

 

[Mainstreet]

Although not a permanent fix, I hear Anthony Tolliver is about to return to the TWolves active roster after being out about three weeks with a knee injury. The Wolves seem set at PF with Love and Beasley. I'd like the Suns to at least consider him in a trade. Tolliver is only 25 and I like his game better than say a player like Warrick. If healthy, I think he could put up decent scoring and rebounding numbers with Phoenix. The Suns sorely miss the passion that Amundson brought to the team. In fact, if the Suns can't do better I would somehow like to see Amundson back with the Suns.

 

[mojorizen7]

I agree that currently there's nobody on this roster you can build around going forward.
However i do like several pieces as part of a nucleus of complimentary "role" players.
I like Duds and Childress alot,as well as Pietrus,but i doubt we'll keep all three guys. I would only keep one if we had to part with two of them in order to get a deal(or two)done. I'd lean towards Duds,he brings more to the table IMO....plus there's the contract.

I also still think Dragic is a guy we should look at retaining(if at all possible). I think his game becomes elevated once forced into a larger role and a different system that involves less decision making at a slower tempo.

The jury's still out on Lopez but if nothing else he's a solid rotational big. Gortat is finally getting a chance to expand his role......not sure what kind of a big he's going to develop into though.....you'd have to believe that one of these guys should stick.

Someone had mentioned that they felt that no one on this roster should be untouchable in terms of trying to possibly go out and make a deal for a player WE CAN rebuild around.....i would certainly agree w/that.

I still dont care for Frye,and certainly dont care for him in terms of being a player i'd keep around while rebuilding this team....too many other better all-around basketball players that i'd rather keep if possible. Frye would be a valuable jump shooting big man on a contending team with a strong front line already in place.

Warrick(in this system w/Nash looks good)....nuff said.

Nobody here has a clear-cut solution on how to rebuild this team,but once Nash is gone there will be some important decision that will need to made. Not only in terms of obvious personnel decisions....but decisions like direction,identity and philosophy.

Obviously I'm not in favor of building around PG's anymore,or building around the theory that says the premium focus will be on offense,speed and jump shooting ......while defense,rebounding and stopping people remains a low priority.

When a franchise decides to rebuild a team from basically nothing(aside from a few quality role players),these are choices that are applicable and are a relevant reality.

I hope somebody really think's this over before trying to just recreate the same old identity thats been in place for a long time.....which IMO is an extremely marketable, soft,one-dimensional team that has won a ton of games whilst banging its head against the elusive championship wall simply due to alot of bad luck and a flawed philosophy.

 

[Chaplin]

As much as everyone hates the guy, if the Suns continue this losing streak, I don't think Sarver will just sit on his laurels. It may not be the best move, but there will most definitely be at least one, maybe a couple different moves.

 

[TBaslim]

If Nash doesn't ask to be traded and says he wants to stay here, what are we going to do? Yes, it's a business, but losing Nash is not a good business decision in the short term. We're stuck right now--all we can do is wait until the season is over and see what the CBA is going to look like--because GUARANTEED the NBA won't be what it is today.

This, this and...oh yeah...this.

Right, wrong or otherwise, the Suns have been planning for the new CBA/potential 2011/2012 lockout for awhile now. They do not want to make the mistakes they did in the 90's before and during the last CBA.

While this season may get ugly, I really doubt they will make a move for any big contracts that do not expire this year. The rules out a whole slew of potential mid-career/late career stars via trade. Maybe if just the right one came along, they pull the trigger, but it would have to be no-brainer perfect and put them immediately back into contention. So, no Elton Brand-type moves.

If they can get a young rising star on a good contract? Sure. But the rest of the NBA is prepping for the new CBA as well and those kinds of players are now gold. The Suns only hope here is that huge expiring contracts and big Trade Exceptions are also gold, and they have both.

I really think they may just do what they can for the rest of this season, hope for a good trade for a young star, and wait for the new CBA before making any multi-year rebuild plans. Unless Steve or Grant want out right now, and then the move them - but not for a future star. Just for more flexibility (see Barkley trade back in the 90's).

It sucks. I hope Amare plays another 10 years like he recently said and proves everyone who didn't want to resign him (myself included) wrong. Otherwise, I just hope this current squad can find something to play for together. Way too much of the team is checked out for the holidays right now.

 

[TBaslim]

As I was looking at rosters, Nash to the Clippers looked like one of the good options. That team is full of young talent and doesn't need more picks. It just needs vet leadership. It might be a cruel thing to do to Nash though. You put Nash with that young talent and you would turn around very quickly.

Just don't think we could do it unless Nash buys in.

Fair point on the Clips being a good trade partner on paper, but Sterling doesn't deserve a Steve Nash. It's bad enough that prick got a Blake Griffin.

Sigh. It'll suck and then suck some more if Nash is ever traded. I'm so open to moving mountains to get him and Hill some help for one final run.

It's really unlikely, but you never know. Think back to late January last year. Who would have thought we would make the WCF then? Most would have put money on an Amare and a JRich trade by the deadline.

We'll see what this year's trade deadline brings. I think there will be LOTS of trades in preparation for the CBA/lockout.

 

[mojorizen7]

If Nash doesn't ask to be traded and says he wants to stay here, what are we going to do? Yes, it's a business, but losing Nash is not a good business decision in the short term. We're stuck right now--all we can do is wait until the season is over and see what the CBA is going to look like--because GUARANTEED the NBA won't be what it is today.

...and sucking on purpose,being stuck in limbo out of respect for Nash is smart business?
I still cant believe he was extended for three years.....I said it then,and i'm saying it now.....just dumb.

 

[TBaslim]

...and sucking on purpose,being stuck in limbo out of respect for Nash is smart business?
I still cant believe he was extended for three years.....I said it then,and i'm saying it now.....just dumb.

Yeah, cause that run to the WCF last year was just stupid. Really dumb.

Sheesh...

 

[mojorizen7]

Yeah, cause that run to the WCF last year was just stupid. Really dumb.

Sheesh...

I've seen plenty of those in my time as a fan. Good times,but some of us have higher expectations.
Now here we sit with a 38 yr old PG who apparently doesn't want to be traded because he's resigned himself to mediocrity here in PHX. The FO apparently has resigned itself to running the Nash era and the franchise's future into the ground simply out of respect for Nash himself.

Its dumb.

 

[TBaslim]

I've seen plenty of those in my time as a fan. Good times,but some of us have higher expectations.
Now here we sit with a 38 yr old PG who apparently doesn't want to be traded because he's resigned himself to mediocrity here in PHX. The FO apparently has resigned itself to running the Nash era into the ground simply out of respect for Nash himself.

Its dumb.

And I argue you do not give Nash, or the Suns FO, enough credit. If we are this bad all year, and there is no plan to get better, my bet is Nash requests a move and they honor it. Otherwise, they are trying to get better. It takes time.

 

[mojorizen7]

And I argue you do not give Nash, or the Suns FO, enough credit. If we are this bad all year, and there is no plan to get better, my bet is Nash requests a move and they honor it. Otherwise, they are trying to get better. It takes time.

You're right about the FO,i have very little credit to give them for the manner in which this team has been handled since 2007.

I cant fault Nash for signing that extension,nor for having the desire to keep playing into his 40's(he's still playing at a relatively high level).....but he must realize at some point that he's no longer a guy a team can build around,and make some sacrifices for whats in the best interest of the team moving forward.

 

[TBaslim]

You're right about the FO,i have very little credit to give them for the manner in which this team has been handled since 2007.

I cant fault Nash for signing that extension,nor for having the desire to keep playing into his 40's(he's still playing at a relatively high level).....but he must realize at some point that he's no longer a guy a team can build around,and make some sacrifices for whats in the best interest of the team moving forward.

Fair enough on the FO - I agree there are lots of questions how they will rebuild based on the last few years.

But show me where Nash is not making a sacrifice in the best interest of the team? The guy plays his guts out each night, win or lose, contender or not. More than you can say about most NBA players (Amare included, unfortunately).

 

[Chaplin]

The thing is, Sarver is going to notice sooner or later that with or without Nash, attendance figures are going to drop--the frustration level amongst the fanbase is incredibly high.

And call him an idiot all you want, there's no mistaking that he IS a fan of the team as well as it's owner. Again, it may not be what we'd all like, but I expect some moves to be made--Sarver just doesn't put up with losing this badly.