Reid: Eagles looked into Boldin trade (Philadelphia Inquirer)
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People keep it civilized, had one warning from this thread already.
http://www.thehuddle.com/nfl_team_rpts/NFLteam_rpt_a.php?teamID=6&portID=437
But he's got a lot of competition. After interviewing Rivera on Wednesday, Cardinals vice president Michael Bidwill and vice president of football operations Rod Graves, a former head of player personnel with the Bears. Graves was a scout for the Bears while Rivera was a linebacker with the team from 1984-92 and is considered a fan of his. He and Bidwill met with Texans assistant head coach Mike Sherman on Thursday.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/michael_silver/01/04/coaches/
Graves and Rivera worked together in Chicago years ago, and he'd be the ideal leader to instill toughness and take this talented team out of the depths of protracted failure.
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-156576278.html
Former Bears personnel chief Rod Graves, given a three-year extension last week as the Cardinals' vice president of operations, contacted the Bears regarding Rivera, who played for the Bears when Graves was in the personnel department.
Do I need to go on? Or maybe that was just random coincidence.
Essentially you are going to believe what you want to believe. IIRC Rivera was initally considered the front runner because of that tie and outsiders thinking Graves had the manin say-so after getting his three year extension. But Mike convinced Bill Sr Offense was the way to go and he wa snot even a final consideration.
Not to make assumptions but you likely are fond of Graves for the same reason Bill Sr is. He represents something good about the organization, has a warms style and is classy, and has a firm handshake.
I on the other hand want a GM with excellent player relations for negotiations, an eye for talent, and the ability to look multiple years ahead and stick to a program. Graves has shown little to no ability in any of those facets.
Be a Graves apologist all you want. It's no skin off my back. But you can see how important Mike thinks Graves is by the bringing in of McCreight, letting him run out his contract, Kiem getting promoted, and Whisenhunt getting the final say on players both FA and the draft.
He'll either be phased out at some point or continued to be kept on in a puppet like role where he is at the press conferences but the strategy is done by other people. Maybe they will even give him some superficial title as Bill Sr takes care of him like a family member. Who knows?
Graves may not be as bad as some people make him out to be but he certainly isn't anywhere near the Top 50 reasons we have had success the last 2 years. At least thats how I see it. But defend him all you want.
oh and its "oy vay" :JBIM:
The problem you have is that no where in those clips does it quote Graves saying that Rivera is his pick. There is also no one from the Cards organization saying that was his pick. If Urban, Sommers or even MJ had said that, I would give it consideration. What you have are 3 people who assume that 1 + 1 must = at least two. And they have as much inside knowledge as you or I. Suppositions don't cut it. The truth of the matter is that neither of us know what went on because we don't have inside information, so you can believe as you like. Just don't get upset when someone questions it.
And I get a kick out of him now being a puppet, but when the Cards traded down to get BJ and Pace, it was all Graves doing. Then in the second round, he abdicated his position and allowed an assistant coach to pick Boldin.
When you see this kind of logic, you don't have to be a Graves apologist to defend the man.
PortlandCardFan
Registered User
The only beef I have with Graves is his ability to only do one big contract at a time... At least it seems that way.
The Cardinals went to the Super Bowl for crying out loud!!!
The Cardinals went to the Super Bowl for crying out loud!!!
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
At this point, we deserve a G.M. with more experience, drive and negotiating power than Graves. The Cards have a winning pedigree now on the field thanks to Whisenhunt and Denny's guys, but I feel that a slow motion, pliable character like Graves will only serve as a boat anchor for a team looking to sail to victory. The report yesterday about "starting up talks" with Dansby and Wilson again has to be the 57th time over the span of a year I've read the same damn thing, with little substance and zero results. At least when I hear of other GMs starting up talks, they are dealt with within 2 months and it is a done deal. Graves moves as fast as he talks with these things, veeerrrryyyyy sllllllooooowwwwwwllllyyyyy.
Furthermore, Graves cannot seem to get first rounders into camp on time. I think the last time we had a first round draft choice in training camp on time was in 2003; even DRC and Fitz were a day or two late. It'll be interesting to see how quickly Graves can lock up Beanie Wells, since we picked him up at 31.
Hopefully, Michael B. is hearing our sentiments and considers letting his contract expire after this season.
CardShark
DEAL WITH IT!
All I know is that the Cards came out repeatedly and said they never set a price for Boldin, but they were listening to what other teams offered to get him. In the end they felt there were no serious offers made. Keep in mind that the Cards said repeatedly that they are not seeking a trade and hope to come to terms with Boldin and keep him here. That in itself could have kept serious offers away. If they had said that they will trade Boldin, they just might have had more teams calling them. I also believe that if the Cards had set a price they would have allowed Rosenass to shop his client for that price.
What I believe is that in the end it was the money that Boldin is seeking that kept teams away. Couple that with the fact that Rosenass is Boldin's agent. After dealing with Rosenass and TO, I wouldn't blame the Eagles one bit for wanting to stay away from another of his clients that is unhappy with his contract. This may be the basis of Reid's speculation on what the Cards wanted. Why else would he even explain why they didn't go after a player that would, in all likelihood make them the odds on favorite to be in the Superbowl?
A far as Graves is concerned, I think the Cards are willing to overlook his mistakes as long as he continues to grow into his role. He has made better decisions as time has passed, if he has been making those decisions. That might not be the case if not for the 3 big influences around him;
Dennis Green, who taught him how to draft.
Michael Bidwill, who, in my opinion, has been the GM on many occasions.
Ken Whisenhunt, who has brought structure and a direction.
In my eyes, his biggest weakness at this point is contract negotiations. He still takes too long to get things done, which I think ends up costing the team more. Case in point is Dansby. Having to use the franchise tag on him 2 years in a row has crippled negotiations to extend other key players. To compound this mistake, he has failed to bring in a replacement for Dansby.
Another big mistake looming over his head is Boldin. The mistake here is telling Boldin that his contract will be reworked that offseason. If you tell him that, then you need to make sure it happens. If you don't have the means to do it, then, at the very least, don't say you will. Now you've turned a core player that wanted to give everything he had to help you build a winning team into a disgruntled distraction.
The biggest feather in Graves cap is the the Cards were in the Superbowl under his watch. I don't think anyone credits him as the driving force that made it happen, but view him as the GM in training. As long as he and the team don't regress, I think his job is secure.
What I believe is that in the end it was the money that Boldin is seeking that kept teams away. Couple that with the fact that Rosenass is Boldin's agent. After dealing with Rosenass and TO, I wouldn't blame the Eagles one bit for wanting to stay away from another of his clients that is unhappy with his contract. This may be the basis of Reid's speculation on what the Cards wanted. Why else would he even explain why they didn't go after a player that would, in all likelihood make them the odds on favorite to be in the Superbowl?
A far as Graves is concerned, I think the Cards are willing to overlook his mistakes as long as he continues to grow into his role. He has made better decisions as time has passed, if he has been making those decisions. That might not be the case if not for the 3 big influences around him;
Dennis Green, who taught him how to draft.
Michael Bidwill, who, in my opinion, has been the GM on many occasions.
Ken Whisenhunt, who has brought structure and a direction.
In my eyes, his biggest weakness at this point is contract negotiations. He still takes too long to get things done, which I think ends up costing the team more. Case in point is Dansby. Having to use the franchise tag on him 2 years in a row has crippled negotiations to extend other key players. To compound this mistake, he has failed to bring in a replacement for Dansby.
Another big mistake looming over his head is Boldin. The mistake here is telling Boldin that his contract will be reworked that offseason. If you tell him that, then you need to make sure it happens. If you don't have the means to do it, then, at the very least, don't say you will. Now you've turned a core player that wanted to give everything he had to help you build a winning team into a disgruntled distraction.
The biggest feather in Graves cap is the the Cards were in the Superbowl under his watch. I don't think anyone credits him as the driving force that made it happen, but view him as the GM in training. As long as he and the team don't regress, I think his job is secure.
perivolaki
perivolaki
How do you know that Michael B. hasn't approved of all the things you complained about?
I have some problems with Graves but he doesn't operate in a vacuum.
How do we know that Michael, or Whisenhunt, or anyone else in the organization isn't happy with the pace of contract negotiations?
We only know two things.
Number 1 is that the fans are not happy with the pace of contract negotiations.
Number 2 is that anyone that has ever gone into negotiations with Michael B. has not come out of it happy. He is well known as a tough, no holds barred, take no prisoners type of negotiator. There is a long trail of unhappy companies, cities, universitys, property owners, and individuals that have negotiated with Michael B.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if Graves is well liked by the organization for two qualities, his ability to keep his mouth shut, and his willingness to take the heat on things like contract negotiations.
Totally_Red
Air Raid Warning!
A+ post. That's one of the best summations of Rod and the Boldin situation that I've ever seen. Rod is not a 'strong' GM type IMO, but I'm not sure that Michael wants one of those at this point. He got his 'strong' head coach in Ken Whisenhunt and by all accounts the Cardinals scouting group has been strengthened considerably in the last couple of years. Whis is the 'face of the organization' in most respects and that is a good thing IMO.
moklerman
Rise from the Ashes III
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/KentSomers/53312
Eagles offered Sheldon Brown(CB) and a third.
Eagles offered Sheldon Brown(CB) and a third.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
you're right, you don't have to defend him at all.
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Bobcat
Registered User
If we were to ever to do this trade then "we" are back to being the old Cardinals. Which I don't think that this is what we have became...!!!
BOBCAT
BOBCAT
