Rich Olson Has Got to Go.

[TucsonDevil]

There is absolutely no creativity to the offense. Yes, I realize Sullivan is a flawed (at best) QB, but the play calling is just awful. I felt the same about ASU last year, and the year before.

This game is just a major bummer.

 

[green machine]

Dennis Erickson is calling plays this year.

 

[HooverDam]

I agree Olsen needs to go. While ASUs line and QB play are far below average on the talent level and would make things difficult for anyone, ASU keeps trying the same crap over and over and it doesn't work. Its very: Even if DE is calling the plays Olsen is still the O coordinator and needs to do a better job. He also needs to do a better job bringing in offensive talent and from my understanding he does very little recruiting.

In my fantasy world at the end of this season ASU would can Olsen. They'd promote Matt Lubick to offensive coordinator (he has experience as a WR coach) and start grooming him as DE's replacement. They'd move Grady Stretz from D-line to Secondary (he's been a secondary coach before) and somehow hire Jim Jeffcoat away from Houston and have him be the D-line coach.

Hopefully that would accomplish bringing some youth and new ideas to the offensive side of the ball. It would give ASU a great chance of getting Jackson Jeffcoat. It would also perhaps help ASUs recruiting in Texas w/ Jim Jeffcoats experience and perhaps connections there.

Anyway, like I said its a fantasy land scenario and won't happen, but dreamin' is free.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The offense is Erickson's show, Rich Olson really doesn't do much so nothing's really going to change by switching him out with Lubick. The talent (or lack thereof) is ASU's biggest issue offensively.

 

[Mathew81]

The offense is Erickson's show, Rich Olson really doesn't do much so nothing's really going to change by switching him out with Lubick. The talent (or lack thereof) is ASU's biggest issue offensively.

That's why he needs to go. They need to bring in someone who can maybe bring a little variety to the offense and can be at least an adequate recruiter. Olson brings nothing to the table.

 

[HooverDam]

The offense is Erickson's show, Rich Olson really doesn't do much so nothing's really going to change by switching him out with Lubick. The talent (or lack thereof) is ASU's biggest issue offensively.

Did you even read what I wrote? Its like you see Ive posted about ASU and get super excited to refute me without bothering to read. If I posted "ASUs colors and gold and maroon" would you come in and say "actually ASUs colors are maroon and gold"?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Did you even read what I wrote? Its like you see Ive posted about ASU and get super excited to refute me without bothering to read. If I posted "ASUs colors and gold and maroon" would you come in and say "actually ASUs colors are maroon and gold"?

Calm down. You stated a situation that puts Lubick in Olson's position is a dream scenario. And I simply stated that this is Erickson's show so that coaching position is rather meaningless and that the talent is the problem.
If you say things I believe aren't true I'm going to argue them - that's what these things are for.

 

[HooverDam]

You didnt' demonstrate in anyway that you read and understood what I posted. Its obvious ASUs offensive talent is lacking and guys like Olsen and Gregg Smith are a part of that. They haven't brought in good enough talent.

We all knew ASUs offense would be poor but we also all knew ASU would stink in hoops during Sendeks first year. I think the difference though is at least we knew we had good recruits coming in w/ Sendek, right now ASUs offensive recruiting has been OK but not great. Recruitings been awful on the O-line though. And Sendek at least had a gameplan that made sense (take the air out of the ball, play stingy D) that kept his untalented team close. Finally his team played hard. I cant really say any of those things about this ASU offense.

If Lubick (or anyone whos not in the AARP) were hired as OC I assume Erickson would give them play calling duties and maybe it would freshen things up. Olsens offense has been maddening since he arrived, whether it was drawing up slow developing plays when Rudy was under pressure, to running a North-South runner like Nance on sweeps, it just doesn't make sense. Its time to move to some younger coaches with energy, new ideas, ability to recruit and who can maybe relate to their players

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

That's where we differ I guess. from what I understand the playcalling, scheme, and recruiting approach comes straight from Dennis Erickson. So if it's decided by Lisa Love and the boosters that those things need to be overhauled it means that somebody basically has to take a lot of control away from Erickson.

That might be the best move going forward (Arizona did this with Sonny Dykes three years ago and it is obviously paying huge dividends) but it's going to require a big change from the past approach and would possibly piss off Erickson as he'd essentially be a figurehead.

Not sure I'd want Lubick in that position either. He's seemingly much too valuable on the recruiting trail rather than spending his days and night scheming and dissecting film trying to break down opponents. Somebody from outside of the program is probably the right approach.

 

[Mathew81]

That's where we differ I guess. from what I understand the playcalling, scheme, and recruiting approach comes straight from Dennis Erickson.

While DE obviously runs the show, he can't do everything or else he wouldn't need assistants. There isn't enough time in a practice for DE to personally tell every player what they're doing right or wrong. And he can't go out and recruit every player on his own either.

Olson brings nothing to the table in that he doesn't coach much and he doesn't recruit. Those are his only two jobs and he does neither.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

While DE obviously runs the show, he can't do everything or else he wouldn't need assistants. There isn't enough time in a practice for DE to personally tell every player what they're doing right or wrong. And he can't go out and recruit every player on his own either.

Olson brings nothing to the table in that he doesn't coach much and he doesn't recruit. Those are his only two jobs and he does neither.

That's what you seem to be missing - Olson is doing exactly what Erickson is telling him to do. I suppose you could bring in somebody new but as long as his job description equals that of Rich Olson you'll see limited if any impact on the field. Now if you replace Olson with a guy with fresh and innovative ideas to overhaul the entire offense like Arizona did with Dykes from recruiting to scheming you are essentially making DE a figure head coach and spending a lot of dime to bring said guy and his people in.

And if you get to that point - Does Erickson have the clout in Tempe let alone does ASU have the coin to pay him $1.5mil a year to essentially delegate everything? Switching up OC's sounds like a good idea on paper and probably would end up being an upgrade once completed but there's a lot of moving parts and financial considerations to ponder before getting there. It's not the simple coach swap you guys are making it out to be be.

 

[Mathew81]

Erickson hasn't always called the plays, in fact it's pretty new for him to do as a head coach. If they did bring in a new OC, they could take over the play calling and DE could go back to just being the head coach. I don't see how the OC doing the job he's supposed to would make DE a "figurehead." And it doesn't have to be a known, well-established OC that costs a lot of $$. Give the job to someone who's ready to make the jump from position coach to coordinator. What's the worse that can happen? Lose games and have a crappy offense? That's already happening.

Just about anyone would be better than Olson at this point.

 

[HooverDam]

Out of curiosity does this mean Mike Stoops is just a figurehead too?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Out of curiosity does this mean Mike Stoops is just a figurehead too?

No, Mike Stoops runs the defense. His brother Mark is the defensive coordinator but is really just a quality control and details guy. Scheme, recruiting, play calling, coaching, and player development on that side of the ball is Mike Stoops.

A similar scenario is at play at ASU but insert Erickson for Mike Stoops and Olson for Mark. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp. The difference is of course that most Arizona fans would realize that calling out Mark Stoops for defensive ineffectiveness would be absurd.

Other examples would be USC's defense and Pete Carroll, Jeff Tedford and the Cal offense, Chip Kelly and the Oregon offense, etc. The coordinators on those units have very little actual responsibilities compared to someone like Sonny Dykes, Nick Holt, or Nick Aliotti who oversee every aspect of their sides of the ball with only veto power from the HC.

 

[Gaddabout]

Calm down. You stated a situation that puts Lubick in Olson's position is a dream scenario. And I simply stated that this is Erickson's show so that coaching position is rather meaningless and that the talent is the problem.

Actually, Erickson doesn't coach the QBs, Olson does, and it's the No. 1 problem with ASU's offense. No. 2 is the fact that Olson doesn't recruit, but it's a lesser issue considering ZERO progress is made among the QBs they do have. In fact they all seem to take a step backwards under his tutelage.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Actually, Erickson doesn't coach the QBs, Olson does, and it's the No. 1 problem with ASU's offense. No. 2 is the fact that Olson doesn't recruit, but it's a lesser issue considering ZERO progress is made among the QBs they do have. In fact they all seem to take a step backwards under his tutelage.

And some would argue that you can't make chicken salad out of chicken crap. It's pretty obvious despite your claims over the last few months that Danny Sullivan neither has the physical tools nor mental makeup to ever be even an average Pac-10 QB and a true freshman straight out of Montana HS football lacks the experience to play this early at this level. Combine that with other recruiting failures across the entire offense from RB to WR to OL and what exactly is Rich Olson supposed to do?

Now I'm in agreement with everyone that Olson leaving would be best going forward for ASU. My point is that simply switching him out with somebody else isn't going to do much if anything because his responsibilities aren't that great. ASU's offense probably needs a complete overhaul starting with recruiting strategy and going through player development and the majority of that is Dennis Erickson's responsibility.

 

[Gaddabout]

And some would argue that you can't make chicken salad out of chicken crap. It's pretty obvious despite your claims over the last few months that Danny Sullivan neither has the physical tools nor mental makeup to ever be even an average Pac-10 QB and a true freshman straight out of Montana HS football lacks the experience to play this early at this level. Combine that with other recruiting failures across the entire offense from RB to WR to OL and what exactly is Rich Olson supposed to do?

Now I'm in agreement with everyone that Olson leaving would be best going forward for ASU. My point is that simply switching him out with somebody else isn't going to do much if anything because his responsibilities aren't that great. ASU's offense probably needs a complete overhaul starting with recruiting strategy and going through player development and the majority of that is Dennis Erickson's responsibility.

We'll just have to disagree on QB coach. It's the most important teaching position on the staff, IMO, at this level. Oz has been here since January and he really isn't any better than when he got here.

Olson's contract expires in December and it's almost a foregone conclusion he's gone. Erickson has told Love that Olson's value is in his scouting, both in recruiting and in game planning, but the writing's on the wall. That's why Erickson took over play calling.

The speculation is Robin Pflugrad will be brought in on some capacity.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

We'll just have to disagree on QB coach. It's the most important teaching position on the staff, IMO, at this level. Oz has been here since January and he really isn't any better than when he got here.

I agree, I just believe it's more of a talent issue than coaching. Of course you bought into the nonsense some coach told you that ASU's offense including at QB has above average Pac-10 talent so that's ultimately where we disagree.

The speculation is Robin Pflugrad will be brought in on some capacity.

This goes back to what I've been saying. You're basically ousting Olson to replace him with another member of the Northwest good old boy club. Obviously Olson sucks but I really don't see the point of canning him if you're going to bring in another guy whose career has largely been a failure. Didn't Oregon just fire Pflugrad? Is he even still in football?

 

[Gaddabout]

I agree, I just believe it's more of a talent issue than coaching. Of course you bought into the nonsense some coach told you that ASU's offense including at QB has above average Pac-10 talent so that's ultimately where we disagree.

Erickson himself felt that about Sullivan. It wasn't some fringe assessment from "some coach."

This goes back to what I've been saying. You're basically ousting Olson to replace him with another member of the Northwest good old boy club. Obviously Olson sucks but I really don't see the point of canning him if you're going to bring in another guy whose career has largely been a failure. Didn't Oregon just fire Pflugrad? Is he even still in football?

Pflugrad is about two steps above Olson, who has failed everywhere he's been save for a few strong years with world-class athletes at Miami. Pflugrad is a strong recruiter and the only reason he was fired was because of the coaching change at Oregon. He excels as a teacher and he's very strong as a recruiter in the home.

Erickson's not going to hire some young gun to come in and run the Leach spread or the Florida spread option (which is really just the Wishbone by any other name). Erickson is going to run stuff he's familiar with, which is the traditional one-back offense. He's game for the QB under center or running the shot gun. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with his schemes. The teaching has to improve though, particularly at the skill positions, otherwise it won't matter what they run.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Erickson himself felt that about Sullivan. It wasn't some fringe assessment from "some coach."

Was he drinking at the time? It was an awful assessment no matter who said it. I heard from team managers of all people that Sullivan had zero chance of being a good college QB as early as last spring.

Pflugrad is about two steps above Olson, who has failed everywhere he's been save for a few strong years with world-class athletes at Miami. Pflugrad is a strong recruiter and the only reason he was fired was because of the coaching change at Oregon. He excels as a teacher and he's very strong as a recruiter in the home.

All I remember was him getting canned at Oregon and his kid transferring to ASU and being a big part of the Bill Doba staff that perhaps permanently destroyed the Washington State football program. Is this your opinion on Pflugrad or Erickson's?

 

[Gaddabout]

All I remember was him getting canned at Oregon and his kid transferring to ASU and being a big part of the Bill Doba staff that perhaps permanently destroyed the Washington State football program. Is this your opinion on Pflugrad or Erickson's?

Doba killed Wazzu all on his own by setting low goals in recruiting.

Pflugrad was highly respected at ASU and was missed when he left. He was a Mouse Davis product who helped tutor Neil Lomax, so he certainly understands the passing game and spread schemes.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Erickson himself felt that about Sullivan. It wasn't some fringe assessment from "some coach."

Good God, if this is true, we're in much bigger trouble than I thought. Sullivan is absolute garbage. I don't care who the coach is, he has neither the mental or physical capacity to be an "above average" Pac-10 qb, let alone average. He is awful, and the main reason why we have no chance to make a bowl game this year.

Unfortunately, it speaks to a bigger issue, which is the complete lack of direction of this team and program. Sure, there are pieces on defense, but all in all, this program is in a bleaker spot than when Kotter left, which is stunningly bad. Bottom line, Erickson hasn't done anything of note and is certainly not a long term option. I never thought I'd ever be pining for the days of Dirk, but at least Kotter's teams usually took care of the teams at their level or worse, and could provide some excitement offensively.

 

[Gaddabout]

Good God, if this is true, we're in much bigger trouble than I thought. Sullivan is absolute garbage. I don't care who the coach is, he has neither the mental or physical capacity to be an "above average" Pac-10 qb, let alone average. He is awful, and the main reason why we have no chance to make a bowl game this year.

Take away the plays Carpenter made with his feet last year and you have Sullivan. Sullivan is actually better at reading defenses than Carpenter -- and Carpenter was no slouch when it came to film work. Carpenter regressed, Sullivan has fundamental foot work issues that SHOULD be correctable, and Oz looks like a deer in the headlights.

I reiterate, the problem is the QB coaching.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I reiterate, the problem is the QB coaching.

That's certainly an opinion more than fact.

I'm more inclined to think somebody over there is making Rich Olson the fall guy for poor offensive recruiting as a whole.

 

[Gaddabout]

I'm more inclined to think somebody over there is making Rich Olson the fall guy for poor offensive recruiting as a whole.

No doubt, Erickson and staff have screwed the pooch in recruiting both at QB and OT. The lack of ... desperation in their recruiting efforts in o-linemen has been a source of frustration for every Sun Devil fan who follows it. They never seem to have a shortage of wide receiver candidates, though. It boggles the mind. The fact they gave Elway a scholarship is telling about their lack of understanding of their own depth chart. Elway wasn't even a DII-caliber QB. Erickson was doing JE a favor in exchange for some positive press.

That still doesn't explain why QBs regress or make no improvement under this staff. Carpenter was so awful his senior year, he went from being a mid-round draft pick lock to being undraftable.