Rien Long

[Cbus cardsfan]

Does anybody like him?He's 6'6 320 and a good pass rusher.I think he would be an excellent 2nd round pick.He won one of the big lineman awards in college last year and was projected early on as a top 10 pick and now has most likely fallen out of round 1.My ideal first 3 rounds are Leftwich,Long,and Peek.Throw Brandon Lloyd in the 4th round and i'll run naked through the horseshoe at OSU's home opener next year against Washington. Of course,nobody would eb happy to see that.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
Does anybody like him?He's 6'6 320 and a good pass rusher.I think he would be an excellent 2nd round pick.He won one of the big lineman awards in college last year and was projected early on as a top 10 pick and now has most likely fallen out of round 1.My ideal first 3 rounds are Leftwich,Long,and Peek.Throw Brandon Lloyd in the 4th round and i'll run naked through the horseshoe at OSU's home opener next year against Washington. Of course,nobody would eb happy to see that.

Lloyd will be gone in the third.

Long is a decent player.

The Shoe will never be the same....LOL!!!!

 

[mdamien13]

He seems to be more of a pass rusher than a run stopper, and I haven't read him being 320 (everything I see on ESPN says 300). Could develop into a force but I wouldn't trust our d-line coaches.

 

[Cardiac]

Originally posted by mdamien13
He seems to be more of a pass rusher than a run stopper, and I haven't read him being 320 (everything I see on ESPN says 300). Could develop into a force but I wouldn't trust our d-line coaches.

I just can't respond to Cbus cardsfan about his celebritory methods but I do like his draft. I do think Lloyd will easliy be gone by the third rd however.

Long does generate a good pass rush and that is what is most needed on this team. Picking him in the 2nd would be a very good option. Add Peak as a pass rush specialist and the defense will improve.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
Does anybody like him?He's 6'6 320 and a good pass rusher.I think he would be an excellent 2nd round pick.He won one of the big lineman awards in college last year and was projected early on as a top 10 pick and now has most likely fallen out of round 1.My ideal first 3 rounds are Leftwich,Long,and Peek.Throw Brandon Lloyd in the 4th round and i'll run naked through the horseshoe at OSU's home opener next year against Washington. Of course,nobody would eb happy to see that.

Long has been horrible in the post season workouts and such which is why he's falling like a rock. Had a great year, but as I pointed out before, so did a LOT of pass rushers in the Pac 10 this past season. Either the conference was full of great pass rushers, or nobody could block!

Long is a solid prospect but I think his current draft projection is a lot more reasonable than when he was going in the first round I never felt he was that good of a player, he lacks leverage I think he'll be overpowered by NFL OL's at first. He plays very high, got away with it in college but in the NFL he'll be knocked back a lot until he learns to not do that.

 

[SECTION 11]

Is there any precedence for successful 6'6" DT's?

 

[BACH]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Is there any precedence for successful 6'6" DT's?

I think Richard Seymore is close to that. He was in the pro bowl - in his 2nd year...

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Hmmmmm

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Is there any precedence for successful 6'6" DT's?

I do know some successful 5'9" fullbacks (Charlie Tovar of the old Houston Oilers) and some 6'8" defensive ends (Atkins of the old Bears).

I guess it depends on the kind of defense and the dudes abilities.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Is there any precedence for successful 6'6" DT's?

I'm sure there's been a few. It is funny if you think about it. Robertson has to prove to people he can play because he's only 6'1", and Long has to prove to people he can play because he's 6'6" and people think he plays too high.

To me Robertson is a better Casey Hampton, a player I loved in college who has turned out well in the NFL, Robertson will be a better pass rusher.

Long has talent he just needs to get better leverage or he'll get pancaked a lot.

 

[BACH]

War Room have him rated #1 in quickness and pass-rush for DTs, BUT down around #20 in the runstopping catagories. I think he's too one-dimensional to fit our D.

Yes, pass-rush is our biggest need, but it's the pass rush from the DEs that's lacking not from the DTs. Bryant was drafted last year for his pass-rushing ability. If we take a DT early it should be a player that can take up space and created room for Bryant and hopefully Suggs. That leaves Ty Warren as the only possible DT in the 2nd (he's projected to go from 28 to about 45 - we draft at #37).

 

[Northern Card]

There is nothing of note that I've read that indicates that LONG will reach the second round...

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by BACH
pass-rush is our biggest need

On defense, I think rush defense is our biggest need.

Followed by more plays from our LB's, especially MLB. I'm talking sacks, picks, forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, t.f.l.

We do need a pass rush, but I'm not convinced that we need a sole pass rusher per se as the biggest need.



I think we have the players at OLB (IF Fisher is healthy ) but we have nothing in the middle.

 

[hef]

if he's 6 foot 6, damn fast, and has good pass rush skills, why dont we draft robertson or kennedy w/ our #6 and pick long w/ the intention of grooming him to be an edge rushing de. assuming that suggs is gone when we pick
just a thought?

 

[Russ Smith]

Couple of interesting things from About.com. Long was supposed to have knee surgery after the season but postponed it for the combine, this may explain his "stiffness" in workouts. One scout called him stiff, unathletic and struggles laterally, he said he " was threatened by Long's agent, Ralph Cindrich, in a very unprofessional and ignorant manner."

Long was also suspended after a game this year for drinking on the team plane, after a loss to Ohio State.

Some said he plays too upright, one said he plays with good leverage but lacks strength and durability(knee injury and shoulder injury). One scout said he needs a lot of weightroom work(did only 18 reps, Robertson did 30).

 

[ajcardfan]

I must've watched 6-7 Wash St. games this year and not once did the other team really handle him. He absolutely ripped up ASU. That said, I'd only consider him in a trade down scenario.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by hef
if he's 6 foot 6, damn fast, and has good pass rush skills, why dont we draft robertson or kennedy w/ our #6 and pick long w/ the intention of grooming him to be an edge rushing de. assuming that suggs is gone when we pick
just a thought?

He's not fast he ran a 5.1 forty at his workout.

He's better than his workouts show(must be the knee) but he's not ready for the NFL if you read a bunch of reports one thing you see over and over is he took bad advice and really should have stayed another year in school to get stronger.

He's more of a project at this stage.

 

[SECTION 11]

I thought he was staying because he liked WSU's new coach. He already said once he was without a doubt staying.

I think he's second guessing that decision. Maybe not. I dunno.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I was basing the availabilty of Lloyd and Long on what i read in Sports Weekly,i think that's the name.It's put out by Usa Today and has some well respected writers in it.I think it replaced Baseball Weekly.Anyway,they have each position broke down and where the top players are projected and they had Lloyd inthe 4th.Granted,it's only 1 publication but most drafts i've seen have him in the 3rd,so there is a chance.The knee injury about Long makes me want him more.If worked out with a bad knee that shows some guts,assuming it's only a minor injury.As for the drinking incident,i'm sure OSU made alot players(and coaches) drink this past year after winning the title with an offense that makes the Cards look like a juggernaut.

 

[JeffGollin]

There is nothing of note that I've read that indicates that LONG will reach the second round...
His stock has fallen - the impression I got was that he is far from a finished product. But at #37 (depending on who we already picked and who else is available) he'd be excellent value.

Cautionary note - At DT we need an absolute animal next to Wendell who can stuff the run. If Long - has the knack (or is able and willing to acquire it), then he'd be an option we should consider. But if he's just a tall fat guy or a high center-of-gravity guy with some inside pass rush skills but can't anchor against the run, it wouldn't be so good a fit.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
There is nothing of note that I've read that indicates that LONG will reach the second round...
His stock has fallen - the impression I got was that he is far from a finished product. But at #37 (depending on who we already picked and who else is available) he'd be excellent value.

Cautionary note - At DT we need an absolute animal next to Wendell who can stuff the run. If Long - has the knack (or is able and willing to acquire it), then he'd be an option we should consider. But if he's just a tall fat guy or a high center-of-gravity guy with some inside pass rush skills but can't anchor against the run, it wouldn't be so good a fit.

Good points Jeff, and basically you posted why we shouldn't even consider Long. He is ".....just a tall fat guy or a high center-of-gravity guy with some inside pass rush skills but can't anchor against the run".

Of the top tackles, Long is probably the single worst run defender. If we didn't have Bryant, I might take him in the second, but he really is more of a taller, fatter, less athletic and slower Bryant.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Jimmy Kennedy!!!

...and I'm a WSU alumni.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Good points Jeff, and basically you posted why we shouldn't even consider Long. He is ".....just a tall fat guy or a high center-of-gravity guy with some inside pass rush skills but can't anchor against the run".

Of the top tackles, Long is probably the single worst run defender. If we didn't have Bryant, I might take him in the second, but he really is more of a taller, fatter, less athletic and slower Bryant.

he's not fat at all he's too light in the butt if anything.

he's very similar to William joseph, he's taller, and up until now has carried less weight. Most scouts seem to consider Joseph the best pass rushing DT in the draft, Long #2, even though Long had better stats. Joseph is a better run defender and has real long arms, his problem is he put on weight to impress the scouts and lost speed in the process which put off the scouts.

I like Joseph more than most but I've been saying he's a bad fit next to Bryant, Long would be a horrible fit next to Bryant.

If we're drafting a DT to play with Wendell the guys that fit the best are Robertson and Kennedy, guys who are big enough and strong enough to anchor the middle. Williams, Long, Joseph, they're all talented players but they're all more like Bryant and I don't think you can play 2 guys like that together, especially with a small MLB like McKinnon depending on his DT's taking on the blocks.

When all is said and done if we come out of the first round with Suggs, Robertson or Leftwich I'll be very happy.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Jimmy Kennedy!!!

...and I'm a WSU alumni.

No way! You must of attended back in the Keith Jackson days!

I too am a WSU alum, and I watch every WSU game I can without having to pay for it...

I think Long is more or a "Chad Eaton" type of DT more than anything else. When he played at his natural weight of 280, his burst off the ball couldn't be handled by any guard or center in the PAC-10. But at that size, I believe he would get man-handled by NFL interior linemen. Now that he has "ballooned" up to over 300 (friends of mine back in Washington say he got up to 320 at one point!), he's lost a step. He still has a great initial step off the snap, but isn't able to control his larger frame yet. This is what has led to his poor off-season workout numbers. He's a one-gapper, and if he were to maintain his weight around 295-310 he could put some major pressure up the middle when he finally learns how to handle himself at the heavier weight.

I would love to see the Cards take him, but I believe they need more of a two-gap style DT, like a Jimmy Kennedy or DeWayne Robertson, if they decided to go for a DT in the 1st round instead of a DE.

Now if the Cards traded down, then I wouldn't be against drafting late in the 1st round, although I believe that would be a reach for him that early...

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
he's not fat at all he's too light in the butt if anything.

he's very similar to William joseph, he's taller, and up until now has carried less weight. Most scouts seem to consider Joseph the best pass rushing DT in the draft, Long #2, even though Long had better stats. Joseph is a better run defender and has real long arms, his problem is he put on weight to impress the scouts and lost speed in the process which put off the scouts.

I like Joseph more than most but I've been saying he's a bad fit next to Bryant, Long would be a horrible fit next to Bryant.

If we're drafting a DT to play with Wendell the guys that fit the best are Robertson and Kennedy, guys who are big enough and strong enough to anchor the middle. Williams, Long, Joseph, they're all talented players but they're all more like Bryant and I don't think you can play 2 guys like that together, especially with a small MLB like McKinnon depending on his DT's taking on the blocks.

When all is said and done if we come out of the first round with Suggs, Robertson or Leftwich I'll be very happy.

I thought the scouts at the combine said he was "chubby"?

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I thought the scouts at the combine said he was "chubby"?

Because he was convinced that he had to weight more to get decent consideration as a high round draft pick...