Rockets Interested in Morris?

[devilalum]

Yes, he said something like that several times. But it was more along the lines of acquiring assets so that they'd be in a position to do something like that if and when the opportunity arose. And he also said several times that there was no controlling when that opportunity would come. And this process started just 2.5 years ago and the first step was to begin acquiring tradable assets. From Ryan's point of view I suspect we are still early in that process.

The opportunity might never come to trade for that star but there are other things you can do with those assets along the way and that's probably how our future will unfold. We'll play them and make modest gains over a period of time and hopefully become relevant at some point.

It's still a star league.

 

[devilalum]

So now you think his job should be in jeopardy him because in 2 1/2 years he hasn't taken us from the cellar to clearly on the way to contending? I just don't know how that can realistically be done outside of a monumental stroke of pure luck.

No, just trying to broaden the discussion.

 

[82CardsGrad]

It's still a star league.

Just curious.. How many teams have this "star" you believe we should have??

 

[Catlover]

It's still a star league.

At the top, definitely. But once you get past a half dozen players, it's a team sport.

 

[devilalum]

Just curious.. How many teams have this "star" you believe we should have??

McD himself has said his#1 goal is to acquire a star.
Nobody said it would be easy.

 

[82CardsGrad]

McD himself has said his#1 goal is to acquire a star.
Nobody said it would be easy.

That's my point... Not sure why you can type those words and see with your own eyes the moves he's made, as well as the moves he's tried to make, and not realize he's done a very solid job.
It's like you're expecting a miracle... Be realistic dude. Even though it seems you think it's possible, McDonough can't just blink his eyes and create a "star".
There aren't many of them to begin with. And those few that might fall into that category are spoken for...

 

[Phrazbit]

Well, I honestly think we have one.

Only 2 pgs in the league are having unquestionably better years statistically, Westbrook and Curry. I'm not saying Bledsoe is better than Chris Paul, ect, but he has certainly put himself in the conversation of elite guards.

He isn't a superstar and it is a star driven league... and McD said he wants to get a star, but I don't see that as a reason to question McD's stewardship so far. Stars very rarely become available, we made a run at one, by all accounts missed out by the smallest of margins. As is we have assets and cap space to make a run at another should the opportunity present itself.

 

[Mainstreet]

McD himself has said his#1 goal is to acquire a star.
Nobody said it would be easy.

The Suns have three players on the verge of becoming stars in Bledsoe, Knight and Booker. Maybe it works out or maybe it doesn't. What do you think the trade value of Len right now? IMO, it is pretty high considering his youth.

The Suns traded for Knight and tried to trade for Aldridge. A little luck is in order for it to work out. However, McDonough has put the Suns in position to acquire a star.

 

[Errntknght]

It happens fairly often. A 33-win team is bad; a 49-win team is good. That's +16. Rare, but certainly not unheard of.

The value of young talent depends on that talent's ceiling. The Wolves have young talent that can reasonably be expected to get much better. It's not clear with the Sixers, because they are so heavily invested in young bigs who are injured. The Suns' youth core begins with Bledsoe and Knight. Bledsoe is improved over last year, so that's good, but I suspect that Knight is what he is. And what he is isn't all that good, so that negates his "youth" advantage. Part of the reason he shoots so many 20-footers is that the defense is usually able to take away the rest of his arsenal, and that's a result of his poor handle and lack of size.

Len, Warren, and Booker all look like they have room for improvement. Probably none will ever be an All-Star, although you never know; but it's not too optimistic to project them as solid starters.

Calling Teletovic or Leuer part of the future is silly. Players of that caliber almost never stay in one place for long. You find the occasional exception, like Nick Collison in Oklahoma City, but you're almost always looking at a two- or three-year relationship with that level of player, at the most. Just pick a few players of that caliber around the league at random, and see how long they've stuck with their various teams.

Overall I'd say that McDonough has done a slightly better than average job. Warren and Booker appear to be above value for their draft positions. The jury is still out on Len. The Suns mishandled the three-PG situation last year, and it cost them some PR and the future Laker pick. Bledsoe will bail them out of that mess if he continues to improve. Investing long-term in the Morris twins was a mistake, but at least their contracts were modest, and one of them has already been shipped off -- good damage control there. The Chandler signing was excellent and the lower-level FAs have been hit and miss, which is what you'd expect.

Similarly, the Suns' intermediate-term future is probably average or maybe slightly above. They don't have anyone who is a top-20 player in the league, and it's tough to get good until you have at least one of those. Maybe Bledsoe will get there, or maybe it will be Booker in a few years. (SG is a weak position league-wide, so there's an opening there.)

We didn't skip mediocre, winning 48 games when you surprise a lot of teams and then end on a backslide, doesn't make you a good team. And we kept sliding back the next season.

I think Jon Leuer is a keeper. Not a starter on a good team perhaps but he is a good back up at PF and C and he's young enough at 26 to play six or seven more years. Teletovic is 30 already so three years is probably as long as he can stay in the league.

I can say the jury is still out on Len but I don't think you can - after all you thought the draft class he was part would not have more than three players who managed to have a decent career. As the fifth pick in such a draft he's already exceeded expectations you had for him. (My expectations were much higher - I predicted he'd be the best center we've ever had.)


Some other things unrelated to your post.

I don't consider Tyler Ennis a poor draft pick - I would say that trading him away as filler in the Brandon Knight deal was a mistake - IMO, he's going to have a decent career in this league - I'd much rather have him than Ronnie Price and Bryce Cotton.
In a similar vein, I considered letting Ish Smith go to be a mistake - yes, he shot like crap but he ran the halfcourt offense better than Goran or Bledsoe and he ran the break nearly as well. The thing is, shooting that poorly was uncharacteristic for him and figured to disappear. And it has, of course.

The biggest mistake McD has made is hiring Hornacek as the head coach. I applauded the hire at time and I had no doubt Jeff would be, at worst, a good coach and perhaps a great one. I was shocked when I saw how his team played but I thought he'd sort it out as the year went on. Twenty games into his second season I had zero confidence in him and things went downhill from there. This year I was afraid the players would save him from the axe but so far they haven't played far enough above his coaching to do it.

 

[Phrazbit]

IMO McD has only made a few obvious mistakes. The biggest was not trading Markieff the same day we dumped Marcus. Markieff was already unprofessional and stupid when the franchise was coddling to him, granted he has been relatively professional since the season started but his comments during the summer and his oft disengaged play have tanked his value.

Signing Zoran was another. Zoran was not an NBA caliber player, the Suns were signing him just to appease Goran... instead the opposite happened. Goran couldn't accept that his brother was not worthy of PT.

I actually don't think the Thomas signing was bad. I don't know how the team could have known that Goran would go from "lovable hustle bust his balls" guy to "mopey little turd". Early in the year the lineup killed it together, then Goran's play and attitude went into the tank, he blamed it on the situation but his awful play in Miami indicates it was more a "Goran" problem than anything else.

None of these moves were all that damaging, especially not in the long term and the Goran situation has likely worked in our favor as it spared us from paying him that awful contract.

Other than those moves the only possible complaints I see are a smattering of whiffs on cheapo players (Weems, Tolliver)... which are the types of end of rotation moves every team cycles through every year.

EDIT: Forgot the Ennis pick. Didn't work, but given the hits on Warren and Booker and Len's ability relative to that awful draft I think McD has drafted very well.

 

[JCSunsfan]

IMO McD has only made a few obvious mistakes. The biggest was not trading Markieff the same day we dumped Marcus. Markieff was already unprofessional and stupid when the franchise was coddling to him, granted he has been relatively professional since the season started but his comments during the summer and his oft disengaged play have tanked his value.

Signing Zoran was another. Zoran was not an NBA caliber player, the Suns were signing him just to appease Goran... instead the opposite happened. Goran couldn't accept that his brother was not worthy of PT.

I actually don't think the Thomas signing was bad. I don't know how the team could have known that Goran would go from "lovable hustle bust his balls" guy to "mopey little turd". Early in the year the lineup killed it together, then Goran's play and attitude went into the tank, he blamed it on the situation but his awful play in Miami indicates it was more a "Goran" problem than anything else.

None of these moves were all that damaging, especially not in the long term and the Goran situation has likely worked in our favor as it spared us from paying him that awful contract.

Other than those moves the only possible complaints I see are a smattering of whiffs on cheapo players (Weems, Tolliver)... which are the types of end of rotation moves every team cycles through every year.

EDIT: Forgot the Ennis pick. Didn't work, but given the hits on Warren and Booker and Len's ability relative to that awful draft I think McD has drafted very well.

I don't think not trading Kieff was a mistake. In retrospect it is, but it is not unreasonable to think that he would get over it. I do think they expected to trade him as part of a sign and trade deal for Alderidge. If Alderidge would have agreed, they could have traded him to Portland or reapproached Dallas, and Cuban would have gladly taken him off our hands to finish out the Chandler signing. It was just a necessary risk.

I agree with the rest. BTW. Every GM will make mistakes. There is not one good one that hasn't made many.

I still don't think Horny is that bad of a coach either.

 

[Phrazbit]

Agreed, those are all relatively minor. And I actually defended not dumping Markieff at the time but by the logic of "he already was a pain in the butt", its not like this will change anything. So my saying its a mistake now is hindsight. And depending on what we get for Markieff it may erase any fault.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Well, I honestly think we have one.

Only 2 pgs in the league are having unquestionably better years statistically, Westbrook and Curry. I'm not saying Bledsoe is better than Chris Paul, ect, but he has certainly put himself in the conversation of elite guards.

He isn't a superstar and it is a star driven league... and McD said he wants to get a star, but I don't see that as a reason to question McD's stewardship so far. Stars very rarely become available, we made a run at one, by all accounts missed out by the smallest of margins. As is we have assets and cap space to make a run at another should the opportunity present itself.

I don't think Bledsoe is a star... He's damn close, but whatever level you would call just below a star, that is where Bledsoe sits... And IMHO, until he can become a more reliable mid/long range shooter, I don't think he'll ever become a star...

 

[Catlover]

I don't think Bledsoe is a star... He's damn close, but whatever level you would call just below a star, that is where Bledsoe sits... And IMHO, until he can become a more reliable mid/long range shooter, I don't think he'll ever become a star...

Although this point is obvious, I think it depends on what you mean by "star". I don't think he's ever going to be quite as good as I once thought he'd become. But if by star you mean someone in the all star mix, I'd say he's already there.

There's probably 10 players or so that are clearly better than him but I think you could make a case for him being anywhere in that next group of 20. If he was a little more well-known or a little more charismatic I think his current play would probably land him a starting spot in the all star game this season.

 

[elindholm]

If he was a little more well-known or a little more charismatic I think his current play would probably land him a starting spot in the all star game this season.

You have to be kidding. In what universe does he beat out Curry or Westbrook in a fan vote, or even Paul?

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't think Bledsoe is a star... He's damn close, but whatever level you would call just below a star, that is where Bledsoe sits... And IMHO, until he can become a more reliable mid/long range shooter, I don't think he'll ever become a star...

And his turnovers. He's always among the dead last in the NBA starting PGs in assist/turnover ratio.

 

[Catlover]

You have to be kidding. In what universe does he beat out Curry or Westbrook in a fan vote, or even Paul?

You're right. I was over the top when I said "starting" and charisma wouldn't help for the coach vote.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Here is an article that argues against trading for Anderson. Same stuff alot of people have said here.

http://arizonasports.com/story/4903...is-for-ryan-anderson-doesnt-make-total-sense/

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

I just don't think that Bledsoe has the desire to be the lead dog on the team, and thus is not the longer term answer at PG. I mean, his PER and some other stats are just fine, TOs notwithstanding, but he doesn't seem to take the team on his shoulders. This may be just my opinion, but it seems that Knight does this better than Bled, though Knight is a shade behind Bledsoe in many of the stats. Knight is streaky, for sure, but he has this mentality of "I am going to lead the team, just watch". Now, I think he goes a little overboard, or a lot when his shot is off, but that is the vibe I get from him. And one that I wish Booker could absorb more of, by the way. I think that you have to have that innate quality to be a superstar. Am I the only one that feels this way?

 

[WuRaider]

What if there is no plan for a trade? Could be possible that Hornacek/McD are just fed up with Keef's lack of focus and are punishing him for it.

I hope not, would rather have Thad Young or Ryan Anderson instead of a sad $8 mil player killing the mood of the team.

 

[devilalum]

Is today the day new players can be traded?

 

[sunsfan88]

Is today the day new players can be traded?

Yes.

 

[Chaplin]

Word is that the Rockets are talking about a Corey Brewer/Terrence Jones trade for Markieff--can't happen until January 14th when Brewer is eligible, but his contract is a brand new one for 3 years at about the same we are paying Markieff. Unless the Suns see something we don't about Brewer, this seems like a bad trade for the Suns. We take their castoff for the privilege of getting Jones? Who isn't even THAT big of an acquisition in the first place...

I guess the question is, do we want Terrence Jones enough to take on Corey Brewer's contract?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Word is that the Rockets are talking about a Corey Brewer/Terrence Jones trade for Markieff--can't happen until January 14th when Brewer is eligible, but his contract is a brand new one for 3 years at about the same we are paying Markieff. Unless the Suns see something we don't about Brewer, this seems like a bad trade for the Suns. We take their castoff for the privilege of getting Jones? Who isn't even THAT big of an acquisition in the first place...

I guess the question is, do we want Terrence Jones enough to take on Corey Brewer's contract?

no

 

[Mainstreet]

Word is that the Rockets are talking about a Corey Brewer/Terrence Jones trade for Markieff--can't happen until January 14th when Brewer is eligible, but his contract is a brand new one for 3 years at about the same we are paying Markieff. Unless the Suns see something we don't about Brewer, this seems like a bad trade for the Suns. We take their castoff for the privilege of getting Jones? Who isn't even THAT big of an acquisition in the first place...

I guess the question is, do we want Terrence Jones enough to take on Corey Brewer's contract?

I can't imagine Markieff sitting on the Suns bench until January 14th. Besides, I'm not liking the trade.