Rod Graves interview

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Chopper0080
"is already an excellent rusher who can be taught to play the run better (and he isn't as bad as some think although he isn;t a run stuffer by any means)"
AZCB34

You keep saying this and I keep shaking my head because it really isn't true. You can teach a player to improve against the run or to get to the quarterback but only to a small degree. Just as rushing the passer demands speed from a player, defending the run demands size and strength. These are things that you really can't teach. Yes, KGB could put on weight, but most likely he would lose speed because his body has peaked.

You can teach a guy the fundamentals of how to defend the run but most passs rushers use their abilities to do that and aren't necessarily taught how to do it. ..because speed in pass rushing is so important. Learning to play the run is about attitutde and fundamentals and fundamentals can and are taught not normally natural abilities.

Rice has improved his play against the run. Is that because he was coached in how to do it without hampering his attacking the QB nature? Most likely. Because up to now, nobody took the time to explain to the guy how to play the run and develop that attitude.

I am not suggesting KGB will become some run stuffing force but he can be coached and through that coaching can improve.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Chopper0080
Krang, I don't see where he will improve. He is undersized and lanky. He is 25 years old (and I believe will turn 26 this season) and so his body is pretty much peaked. If he hasn't bulked up (keep in mind size and optimum playing speed) by now, he probably won't.

Simeon Rice (6'5" 268)is also a much bigger guy (KGB, 6'4" 255), by about 1 inch in height and 13 pounds. I just don't see how KGB is at par with Simeon.

Do you really believe that Rice plays at 268? And do you think that 13 lbs makes that much of a difference? Leonard Little is around 230....

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Chopper0080
AZCB34

why do you think that KGB would take less money than Colvin? The fact is that he wouldn't. By the way, Colvin's contract is llarger than the number 6 pick will receive this year. (depending on the market, though it would need to take a big jump)

I admit my knowledge of how all these contracts work is limited. I just don't get numbers all that well. I guess I would like to know, what was last years #6 contract like...from an annual cap stadpoint and an instant gratification standpoint (since this is where Bidwill does tend to hold up things it appears).

 

[Chopper0080]

Krang-I do think 13 pounds makes a difference, just like an inch in height can turn a corner into a shut down guy, or make a offensive tackle dominant. Size plays a huge part in the NFL (i know you know this) and what are these mismatches about if not inches, pounds, and speed.

AZCB34-Simeon Rice played the run this year because he wanted to and tried. KGB has tried these past years and has not shown he can do it. Also, I think that he probably studdied in a fairly well coached place in Green Bay.

 

[Chopper0080]

AZCB34, I can't find Ryan Simms contract from last year, but I am fairly sure that it is less than Colvin's. Of course since I can't find it, I could be dead wrong and just be looking like an idiot. Price you pay for not having all the stats I guess.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Chopper0080
Krang-I do think 13 pounds makes a difference, just like an inch in height can turn a corner into a shut down guy, or make a offensive tackle dominant. Size plays a huge part in the NFL (i know you know this) and what are these mismatches about if not inches, pounds, and speed.

AZCB34-Simeon Rice played the run this year because he wanted to and tried. KGB has tried these past years and has not shown he can do it. Also, I think that he probably studdied in a fairly well coached place in Green Bay.

I am not sure why you say KGB cannot defend the run. I never said he was great at it or anything but he does make plays against the run.

Rice, IMO, matured mentally as a football player (not as a person) and understood he must commit to the run. I do not accept the notion he just decided to do it and it was done. I firmly believed he was coached on it...hard...and peer pressure in TB made him want to be more aware of playing the run and not leaving his fellow defenders screwed. Young players want the glory and as they mature as players they understand the teamwork ethic a bit more and also accept what is expected of them more. Last year (not the SB year but year before) Rice was just as uncaring about playing the run as he was here. It took him deciding to play the run then being coached in how to accomplish it. Everything a player does is coached...with the exception of speed.

 

[BACH]

Originally posted by AZCB34
I admit my knowledge of how all these contracts work is limited. I just don't get numbers all that well. I guess I would like to know, what was last years #6 contract like...from an annual cap stadpoint and an instant gratification standpoint (since this is where Bidwill does tend to hold up things it appears).

Her's the link:http://www.nflpa.org/members/playerProfile.asp?ID=32982

But you have to add the signing bonus, which I think was about $8M?

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Chopper0080
AZCB34, I can't find Ryan Simms contract from last year, but I am fairly sure that it is less than Colvin's. Of course since I can't find it, I could be dead wrong and just be looking like an idiot. Price you pay for not having all the stats I guess.

Hopefully Russ has a good site to find it because the site I linked for Bryants deal doesn't take into account signing bonuses or cap hits. I use that for years under contract info more than anything.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
I found KGB's combine numbers http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/football/nfl/2000/draft/profiles/kabeergbajabiamila.htm

So he was slightly faster in the 40 than DJ(but he's gained 12 pounds since then), otherwise very similar numbers.

i realize pass rushing is more than workout numbers it's an instinct and there's a lot to it, I just think we're underestimating Dennis Johnson's potential. This is a kid if he were in the draft THIS year might be rated as a first rounder, that's what many experts said when he came out, would have been a first rounder had he played his senior year.

His numbers are VERY close to Suggs' numbers....

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Chopper0080
Krang-I do think 13 pounds makes a difference, just like an inch in height can turn a corner into a shut down guy, or make a offensive tackle dominant. Size plays a huge part in the NFL (i know you know this) and what are these mismatches about if not inches, pounds, and speed.

AZCB34-Simeon Rice played the run this year because he wanted to and tried. KGB has tried these past years and has not shown he can do it. Also, I think that he probably studdied in a fairly well coached place in Green Bay.

I disagree. 1 inch doesn't make a guy a better player, that is pure fantasy.....3 inches could though.

KGB runs around a 4.6, so he can beat ANY tackle, tight end, or Fullback (speaking of mismatches)

 

[Sandan]

Originally posted by Chopper0080
You can teach a player to improve against the run or to get to the quarterback but only to a small degree. Just as rushing the passer demands speed from a player, defending the run demands size and strength. These are things that you really can't teach. Yes, KGB could put on weight, but most likely he would lose speed because his body has peaked.

Flat wrong.

You may be only able to improve a players speed/strength to a small degree, not sure if I agree with that, but I'll let that slide for now.

But you absolutley can teach people how to use those abilities better. If you don't belive that I can introduce to sparing, that is where the blackbelt (that would be me) shows the white belt (that would be you) just how much you can teach somebody to use their abilities.

I've been teaching/being taught this for close to 30 years now.

I'll give you a cople of examples on speed.

Your speed to the QB is also governed by partly by how much the OL gets in you way. This is in partly a function of how well they judge when you start moving, ie they don't react until you move. I know that thretieticly it all happens at the snap, but I'm talking about what actually causes the tackle to react to you. If you can delay even for a fraction of a second that reaction, you have gained both some distance and more importantly some momentum making you hader to stop.

Misdirection, making the OL go the wrong way, even if it's just a tiny little bit. This will really screw up his momentum and reaction time.

These things can be taught, in fact I watched Jerry teaching my first example to D Boston last camp, he could have been teaching Karate. I mentioned to Brighteyes that DB was telegraphing his motion of the liine with his hands, as I said it JC grabbed him and started explaining that very point to him.

You can teach speed, you can strength or at least you can teach how to maximize what you have and most people (and players) use a fraction of what they have. That's why a lot of them take martial arts classes.

I may not be the football guru that some folks are as I haven't folowed it for as long, but when it comes to body mechanics I know more than a thing or 2

 

[Chopper0080]

Ryan Simms:
7 years, 7,509,000 plus 8,000,000 signing bonus.
Contract totaled at $15,509,000

Rosevelt Colvin:
7 years, 23,000,000 plus 7,000,000 signing bonus.
Contract totaled at $30,000,000

and KGB would want more.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Chopper0080
Ryan Simms:
7 years, 7,509,000 plus 8,000,000 signing bonus.
Contract totaled at $15,509,000

Rosevelt Colvin:
7 years, 23,000,000 plus 7,000,000 signing bonus.
Contract totaled at $30,000,000

and KGB would want more.

OK, I stand corrected although some will argue the key number is the signing bonus since that is guaranteed and the number which will have the biggest effect on the cap. Whether or not KGB could get more than Colvin is another thing but it appears as though the contract differences are much larger than I thought.

 

[Chopper0080]

Nidan

I am not saying that technique can't be taught since I am a football coach. What I am saying is that football is very different from Karate, and that technique can only take you so far in football. There is a reason that size is such a premium in football because, in general, bigger is better. Run defense is done at the point of attack. The defensive end has to hold a bigger and usually stronger offensive lineman, while not giving the running back a hole to blow through. Size is a tremendous factor in accomplishing this. Technique is also, but at the NFL level, great technique can leave you on your ass more often than not.

 

[Chopper0080]

"OK, I stand corrected although some will argue the key number is the signing bonus since that is guaranteed and the number which will have the biggest effect on the cap. Whether or not KGB could get more than Colvin is another thing but it appears as though the contract differences are much larger than I thought."

Hey, I didn't know that they were this different either. Hey, I learned something. Kick Ass.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Chopper0080
"OK, I stand corrected although some will argue the key number is the signing bonus since that is guaranteed and the number which will have the biggest effect on the cap. Whether or not KGB could get more than Colvin is another thing but it appears as though the contract differences are much larger than I thought."

Hey, I didn't know that they were this different either. Hey, I learned something. Kick Ass.

The difference was very surprising to me for some reason. I guess it is because I think the rookies have earned nothing at that level so their bonuses seem so much bigger.

 

[Chopper0080]

All right AZCB34, lets start the horde a bunch of number 1 picks because they are cheap thread. HAHAHA

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Chopper0080
All right AZCB34, lets start the horde a bunch of number 1 picks because they are cheap thread. HAHAHA

Deal

 

[Sandan]

Where are you a coach, if it's in town I'd love to compare notes sometime. That is something I've wanted to do for a while.

I think you might be very surprised at the level of overlap between football and karate. Obvioulsy I'm talking about the phsyical issues not plays, running routes tactics etc.

While I know something (not much admitedly) about coaching football, doubt you know very much about martial arts or how it is taught particulary at the level I work at.

I also was not trying to say that native speed ot strength is not important, it's just that is is possible to significantly enhance whatever you have by technique. If you have great speed you can make it moore effective with training.

One of the things I have wondered for many years is how "explicit" is the technique coaching in football. I know a guy who an if standing 3 ft in front of me, can cover the first ft or 2 before I notice him moving (I use the word notice as this far more complex than pure speed).

If you are in town it might be interesting to explore this a little with real players.

 

[kerouac9]

Wow! This is a really great thread. Let me add my two cents and hope that it doesn't kill the discussion, as my posts seem to...

We're agreed that the Cards need a better pass rush. We have one guy where we pretty much know to expect decent play: Vanden Bosch. We have two player who should become good players, especially in the pass rush: Bryant and DJ. You have to hope Mac, Green, and Co. will do their jobs and help them make The Leap. If not, they'll be gone next season.

It seems to be that the weakest point in the line is right in the middle: Barron Tanner. He's a good backup, but a horrible starter and run-stuffer. I don't think that KGB is worth the #6 pick, especially at the price a "poison pill" contract would demand, but I know that we can get a contributor in the middle or T. Suggs with that pick.

The top 2 prospects at DT in the Draft are Kennedy and D. Robertson. Kiper says that the two are basically equivalent in his book, and Robertson might even be better. Both are good players.

That leaves three D-Line stars that will probably be taken in the Top 10. Of the three, at least 2 should fall to us at #6. I'm figuring that it'll be Kennedy and Robertson, but CHI may take one of the tackles, and if Suggs makes it down to us, it's a no-brainer.

Anyway, the biggest problem with the pass rush that I noticed watching the 16 games was that there were only 2 good players on the D-Line on passing downs: Bryant and KVB. They took double teams, and then Wakefield and Tanner were either stood up by single blocks or pancaked. If we have another top-flight D-Tackle, that'll leave single blocking on at least one player that's also good, be it KVB (most likely), DJ, or Wendell.

I think it's pre-emptory to trade such a high #1 for a player that was undrafted or taken really low three years ago. I also think that it's foolhardy to trade a high draft pick when you've already solidified major "need" areas in free agency. WRs take a while to develop, whether it's Charles Rogers or Andre Johnson or whomever. This is a WR-rich draft, and you'll be able to get a quality prospect with the second-rounder. If you can get a bona-fide tackle in the Ted Washington mold with the #6 pick, which I believe these two guys are, you take him.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I disagree. The single weakest position on this team last year was defensive end. Our best defensive end only got 3 sacks last year, which many teams have 2-3 backup ends that got that many.

 

[AZCB34]

DE was the weakness followed closely by no middle push/run stuffing. Overall, I have no problem draft DT in round 1 since it would likely solidify the run defense and create more bonafide passing situations where the glamor boys outside could get their numbers. The only way I believe the Cards draft DT is if Suggs and Newman are gone at #6. I personally believe they are at the top of the Cards board...maybe followed by Kennedy. I think their top 3 prospects on their draft board have got to be defense.

I just think you take alot of the risk...and guesswork...out of the equation if you use your #1 on a RFA. There is always risk but, using KGB as our continued example, he should be expected to continue at close to the same production as he has up to this point....he has proven it to be real. Can anyone say...without a single ounce of doubt the Cards could expect that from Suggs next year? See, to that I say a firm NO.

Not questioning you thought but I was under the impression this was a WR poor draft and the dropoff after the top 2 was quite large. Maybe I misunderstood that.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by AZCB34


Not questioning you thought but I was under the impression this was a WR poor draft and the dropoff after the top 2 was quite large. Maybe I misunderstood that.

Very true. After Johnson and Rogers (and maybe Washington) no receiver is really all that.