Rod Graves

[joeshmo]

So did Graves say something about keeping the powder dry in the context we are talking about? I would have to believe it is in print somewhere, but funny how no one seems to be able to find it and on this board because if it's available, I'll guarantee you someone will find it.

Or he said it in a radio interview.

Edit - Coworker just said the "Keep the Powder dry" comment was actually from Michael Bidwill back in Sept of 2006.

http://forums.helmet2helmet.net/lofiversion/index.php/t17604.html

 

[nidan]

If we must have a continual Rod Graves Sucks thread so be it

 

[cardsfanmd]

Thats gotta be the dumbest thing I have ever read. Because two guys pout and bark at each other about something that was said over a year ago.........that makes them passionate?

Arguing in the above manner is not passionate.....its juvenile. geez

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[Stout]

If we must have a continual Rod Graves Sucks thread so be it

Not the issue at all. The issue is that he's in danger of failing in the plan that he laid out last year, and someone is adamantly refusing to recall the truth. The only reason I keep arguing is because a select few are willing to defend a 17 million dollar cap figure as smart thinking and foresight. Should Fitz be extended in the next few days, I'll dance for joy.

 

[40yearfan]

Thats gotta be the dumbest thing I have ever read. Because two guys pout and bark at each other about something that was said over a year ago.........that makes them passionate?

Arguing in the above manner is not passionate.....its juvenile. geez

Juvenile for you and fun for me. Something has to keep this board going during off-season and make it interesting. I'm glad some of the guys on here appreciate the non-sense. If we didn't have passionate fans, we wouldn't have arguments, no matter how banal you think they may be. I'll argue with just about anyone on this board just to be argumentative. Probably from my fantasy of being a damned good attorney.

 

[40yearfan]

Not the issue at all. The issue is that he's in danger of failing in the plan that he laid out last year, and someone is adamantly refusing to recall the truth. The only reason I keep arguing is because a select few are willing to defend a 17 million dollar cap figure as smart thinking and foresight. Should Fitz be extended in the next few days, I'll dance for joy.

Ahhh, but is it the truth or only Stout's faulty recollection?

 

[Darth Llama]

I was confused about this same Topic. I clearly remember Rod saying last season that we were structuring contracts to get all the cap hit out of the way so that we could really open it up this year. Now this offseason comes, this whole year, I am reading up on free agents expecting us to be a major player, and the season ends, and we have no money?

How can an 8-8 team with only a few "high dollar" players and a bunch of front loaded contracts be strapped for cash? I have gone over it time and again, and even Fitz contract alone shouldn't be enough to put us in the position we're in. I'll usually defend Graves because I feel he sometimes gets an unfair amount of crap from people, but this is one I don't know if anyone can defend. The Cardinals don't have a lot of stars, and our depth in most cases are players that wouldn't even make the roster on a few other teams, yet we have no cap room? I just don't see how that's possible. Where is all this money going?

 

[Stout]

Juvenile for you and fun for me. Something has to keep this board going during off-season and make it interesting. I'm glad some of the guys on here appreciate the non-sense. If we didn't have passionate fans, we wouldn't have arguments, no matter how banal you think they may be. I'll argue with just about anyone on this board just to be argumentative. Probably from my fantasy of being a damned good attorney.

Aha, I knew it...just to be argumentative!

Seriously, I'm glad we do have disagreements. I may get frustrated with perceived hardheadedness, but if everyone just loved Graves, or everyone just hated him, well, where'd the fun be in that?

 

[SuperSpck]

I was confused about this same Topic. I clearly remember Rod saying last season that we were structuring contracts to get all the cap hit out of the way so that we could really open it up this year. Now this offseason comes, this whole year, I am reading up on free agents expecting us to be a major player, and the season ends, and we have no money?

I liked the plan when I heard it last year.

 

[red desert]

C'mon Stout. At least get it right. You said Graves stated he was handling the cap the way he did because he wanted to have a lot of cap space left for this year. I said I don't recall him ever saying anything to that effect and I don't.

Isn't that our argument?

But he did say that. I think. Maybe. Or did he? Hmmm.



Yeah, he did.






I think.

 

[Duckjake]

Looks like this article can go here also.

From last year:

Cardinals eating up cap space
Darren Urban, Tribune
The Cardinals are choosing to eat up salary cap room quicker than in past years for one simple reason: The players still available as free agents aren’t worth saving space.

The Cards decided to make free agent center Al Johnson’s $3.5 million initial payout a roster bonus instead of a signing bonus, meaning the entire amount (along with Johnson’s $3.5 million salary) goes on this year’s cap as a $7 million hit.

New free agent safety Terrence Holt also got a $4 million roster bonus split over two seasons instead of a signing bonus, helping put Holt’s salary cap number at approximately $5 million this season.

The Cards have around $8 million to $9 million left in cap room — and that’s how it was planned.

They need money for the rookie pool and at least one contract extension — linebacker Karlos Dansby is going into the final year of his deal — and vice president of football operations Rod Graves emphasized the team is not going to overspend just to sign bodies in free agency.

“I would rather re-invest that money in Anquan Boldin or Larry Fitzgerald or players of that nature,” Graves said. “I’d see that rather than chasing guys who you don’t even know if they will line up for you but yet they are getting multi-million dollar deals.”

That’s one of the reasons negotiations have been slow with free agent targets such as cornerback Roderick Hood and offensive lineman Mike Gandy. Neither are considered locks to start if they came to the Cardinals.

The Cardinals are still hoping to sign both players, however, and negotiations are ongoing.

Graves said the team would rather “take the medicine now” instead of having dead money later, which would make managing cutting a player easier. It would also help when players such as Boldin, Fitzgerald, safety Adrian Wilson and quarterback Matt Leinart come up for contract extensions.

 

[red desert]

I'd rather not fight, but you won't admit reality, bro. We were supposed to be using up cap space next year so we had cap space this year. Now Graves is in danger of failing to deliver. I marvel that you can't admit that.

Okay, now I remember for sure. He DID say that.

 

[red desert]

It wasnt a bad contract.

I tend to disagree. However, before determining that, I'd like to know exactly what achievments triggered the incentives.

Four years ago looking ahead, how difficult/easy was the incentive to be reached? And what amount was the bonus earned for reaching said goal?

 

[Buckybird]

STUPID GM!!! 1999 all over.

 

[joeshmo]

I tend to disagree. However, before determining that, I'd like to know exactly what achievments triggered the incentives.

Four years ago looking ahead, how difficult/easy was the incentive to be reached? And what amount was the bonus earned for reaching said goal?

It is stupid in the sense that Rookies are aloud to get contracts like that but it is no different in style, structure or ease of reaching incentives when compared to other top 5 picks over the last 5 years.

2 Pro bowls the first 2 years of the contract is how he reached his incentive. Calvin Johnons for example has the same incentive.

 

[nidan]

I guess I simply don't see what you are complaining about Red and others.

As usual Stout is exacterating and twisting the words.

I see nowhere that RG promised an active FA season this year. in fact it appears he planned things reasonably well, so that he could handle the Larry situation if it arose.

I love the Stupid GM 1999 all over again. First I'd like to point out NOTHING has happened yet but heck never let facts get in the way.

Secondly we are in some danger of losing a backup, a good one for sure but he wasn't slated to start.

We aren't losing Larry or Dansby so where is the comparison to 1999 ?

So what are folks pissed off about ? Remember NOTHING has happened yet

 

[WildBB]

Pace is no longer a b/u. And he's in his prime.

 

[cardsfanmd]

I guess I simply don't see what you are complaining about Red and others.

As usual Stout is exacterating and twisting the words.

I see nowhere that RG promised an active FA season this year. in fact it appears he planned things reasonably well, so that he could handle the Larry situation if it arose.

I love the Stupid GM 1999 all over again. First I'd like to point out NOTHING has happened yet but heck never let facts get in the way.

Secondly we are in some danger of losing a backup, a good one for sure but he wasn't slated to start.

We aren't losing Larry or Dansby so where is the comparison to 1999 ?

So what are folks pissed off about ? Remember NOTHING has happened yet

Please tell me you are talking about BJ and not Pace.

 

[joeshmo]

Secondly we are in some danger of losing a backup, a good one for sure but he wasn't slated to start.

I keep hearing this arguement. Who cares if he wasnt slated to start he did and he played damn well. Him being a backup 6 months ago has no baring on the situation at all. I am not sure why it applies. Levi Brown was technically just a backup as well. He only started becuase of injury are you discounting his play as well. Who cares what their standing on the depth chart was 6 Months ago. What is he right now. What did he do as a starter. That is all that matters.

I think it is a defense mechanism for when we eventually do lose him(Maybe?). What ever makes yourself better about it.

 

[Duckjake]

I keep hearing this argument. Who cares if he wasnt slated to start he did and he played damn well. Him being a backup 6 months ago has no baring on the situation at all. I am not sure why it applies. Levi Brown was technically just a backup as well. He only started because of injury are you discounting his play as well. Who cares what their standing on the depth chart was 6 Months ago. What is he right now. What did he do as a starter. That is all that matters.

Pace is far more valuable to the Cards now than he was under Mac or Green. Calvin has the exact physical traits as the Patriots LBs we saw at SDS in 2004.

The Cards must have guys like that to run the D they are now.

 

[cardsfanmd]

I keep hearing this arguement. Who cares if he wasnt slated to start he did and he played damn well. Him being a backup 6 months ago has no baring on the situation at all. I am not sure why it applies. Levi Brown was technically just a backup as well. He only started becuase of injury are you discounting his play as well. Who cares what their standing on the depth chart was 6 Months ago. What is he right now. What did he do as a starter. That is all that matters.

I think it is a defense mechanism for when we eventually do lose him(Maybe?). What ever makes yourself better about it.

Exactly. Holt and Mike Barr were starters going into last year. Does that mean that losing them hurt us bigtime??

 

[Stout]

I guess I simply don't see what you are complaining about Red and others.

As usual Stout is exacterating and twisting the words.

I see nowhere that RG promised an active FA season this year. in fact it appears he planned things reasonably well, so that he could handle the Larry situation if it arose.

I love the Stupid GM 1999 all over again. First I'd like to point out NOTHING has happened yet but heck never let facts get in the way.

Secondly we are in some danger of losing a backup, a good one for sure but he wasn't slated to start.

We aren't losing Larry or Dansby so where is the comparison to 1999 ?

So what are folks pissed off about ? Remember NOTHING has happened yet

Really, Nidan? I mean, really? You're going to jump on that awfully small boat too and claim this is foresight by Graves? Graves NEVER planned on carrying a 17 million dollar cap figure into this season for Fitz. Never. No idiot would ever plan on doing that because it would be, well, idiotic. Placing 1/6 of your cap in one player is stupid, no matter who that player is. You don't recall (like, in the above article) that Graves set us up to use cap space last year so we would have a healthy cap this year? Well, if you don't recall it, you must have amnesia. That was the plan sold to us last offseason. It'd be fine, too, if he can manage an extension with Fitz. If not, we saved all kinds of cap space for NO REASON. Yeah, we get to keep Fitz...at 17mill and not sign anyone and not even bring Pace back. Whoop-de-doo.

Look, if he gets the deal done, that's great. I'll be thrilled and we'll hopefully go out and use that cap space effectively this year. The only reason people are getting upset right now, myself especially, is because some people are actually trying to paint over Graves' plan from a year ago, and some people are actually HAPPY that we might spend 17 million dollars on one player. It's an outlandish idea that I cannot believe anyone in their right mind would be on board with. My goodness!

 

[red desert]

It is stupid in the sense that Rookies are aloud to get contracts like that but it is no different in style, structure or ease of reaching incentives when compared to other top 5 picks over the last 5 years.

2 Pro bowls the first 2 years of the contract is how he reached his incentive. Calvin Johnons for example has the same incentive.

Comparing the Graves to Millen is not helping your argument.

 

[red desert]

I guess I simply don't see what you are complaining about Red and others.

As usual Stout is exacterating and twisting the words.

I see nowhere that RG promised an active FA season this year. in fact it appears he planned things reasonably well, so that he could handle the Larry situation if it arose.

I love the Stupid GM 1999 all over again. First I'd like to point out NOTHING has happened yet but heck never let facts get in the way.

Secondly we are in some danger of losing a backup, a good one for sure but he wasn't slated to start.

We aren't losing Larry or Dansby so where is the comparison to 1999 ?

So what are folks pissed off about ? Remember NOTHING has happened yet

It's really very simply, IMO.

What is our record since Graves took over a leadership role in the organization? That is to say, since he had a major role in signing or not signing players. In signing coaches. In firing coaches. In restructuring contracts, yada yada yada...

How well has he performed the job he was hired to accomplish? What is the team's overall record? Any playoff appearances? Heck, I'd even settle for some second place division finishes. Any of those?

So I ask you this: why shouldn't Graves be subject to yearly criticzm by fans of the Cardinals as long as the team keeps coming up short?

 

[nidan]

I NEVER SAID I DIDN'T WANT TO KEEP PACE OR THAT I THINK HE IS EXPENDABLE.

But listening to the hand wringing here you would think he had just been awarded a free pass to the HOF when he retires.

Its also interesting that I get all this heat and nothing has actually happened yet. Lighten up a little folks.

It is allowed to not think the world will end if [and it is still and if] we don't resign Pace. Is he better than CO ?

My point was and still is. Stout exaggerated to get this recent 'Rod Graves sucks' thread going. Now if we had just lost Larry and Dansby I'd be pretty ticked off but as yet we haven't lost anybody or did I miss it ?