Rumor: Marion to CHI for Chandler and #2

[Cheesebeef]

actually, when I think about it... crap - it's all dependent on Amare's health. But if we were to trade Marion for the number 2 and Chandler and it meant we'd be able to get TT back, I think maybe I WOULD do it. If Amare's healthy and Kurt Thomas are starting, those guys make up for the loss of Marion's rebounding.

A team of:

Nash
Bell
Diaw
Amare
Thomas

Bench:
Barbosa
Tim Thomas
Jr.
#2
Chandler

That's a pretty freaking good team. Not to mention that if we got Tyrus Thomas, the possible front line moving into the future of:

Amare, Boris, Thomas would be freaking unstoppable.

AND - we still get the Hawks pick next year? We could completely bridge the gap from one era to another without missing a beat.

 

[JCSunsfan]

actually, when I think about it... crap - it's all dependent on Amare's health. But if we were to trade Marion for the number 2 and Chandler and it meant we'd be able to get TT back, I think maybe I WOULD do it. If Amare's healthy and Kurt Thomas are starting, those guys make up for the loss of Marion's rebounding.

A team of:

Nash
Bell
Diaw
Amare
Thomas

Bench:
Barbosa
Tim Thomas
Jr.
#2
Chandler

That's a pretty freaking good team. Not to mention that if we got Tyrus Thomas, the possible front line moving into the future of:

Amare, Boris, Thomas would be freaking unstoppable.

AND - we still get the Hawks pick next year? We could completely bridge the gap from one era to another without missing a beat.

I think we'd be over the league "Thomas-cap" but I am sure someone in NY would make an exception if took Isiah.

But in your scenario, remember also that we would have the #21 and #27 picks. So we trade both of those to Philly for #13 (as is rumored) and take the best pg available. Gotta admit that it is intriguing.

You would be 10-11 QUALITY players deep. We would lose Marion's speed, but could make up for it in minutes spread more.

My big problem is that the Suns always tend to tinker too much when they are right on the brink of winning it all.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think we'd be over the league "Thomas-cap" but I am sure someone in NY would make an exception if took Isiah.

But in your scenario, remember also that we would have the #21 and #27 picks. So we trade both of those to Philly for #13 (as is rumored) and take the best pg available. Gotta admit that it is intriguing.

You would be 10-11 QUALITY players deep. We would lose Marion's speed, but could make up for it in minutes spread more.

My big problem is that the Suns always tend to tinker too much when they are right on the brink of winning it all.

I can almost agree with your last statement, but they blew the team, up last year and I think everyone can agree that it worked out for the best and gave us more depth and a better roster to match up with everyone than the previous year.

It's tough with Marion - while at first I thoguht no way, I really do think that his effectiveness is going to be limited with Amare coming back and the emergence of Boris this last season. And basically, it's always bets to sell high and there's really no doubt that if they didn't win the title, Marion would be sent packing next year, mostly for salary concerns and at that point, his value would be somewhat diminished.

BUT - if Sarver were willing to spend the money and keep Boris, Leo AND TT AND KT - I'd be all for keeping Marion to give one more run at it with the deepest team we've ever seen.

 

[Cheesebeef]

My other big problem is this - at the end of games, does anyone REALLY want to see Marion in there at the expense of Amare, Diaw or TT? Amare draws doubel-teams/goes to the foul line... Boris has shown the ability to be pretty clutch/create shots for others and TT is a MUCH better shooter than Marion is standing in the corner doing nothing (which is what he does in the half-court set). Would be be losing his defense? Yeah, but I'm not of the opinion that means much considering I don't hold him in as high of regard as most of you do defensively. Bottom linbe, the most effective lineup, scoring wise - which is what DA preaches, at the end of games, doesn't include a guy who's anot a very good outside shooter and can't create for others. And for that guy to be making 16 million dollars just doesn't cut it if we have to suffer depth problems because of his contract.

 

[cepstrum]

I can almost agree with your last statement, but they blew the team, up last year and I think everyone can agree that it worked out for the best and gave us more depth and a better roster to match up with everyone than the previous year.

What you wrote is right, but im of the opinion that we got lucky more than anything. I dont expect the same thing to happen again and the fans are gonna be pretty pissed if Sarver doesnt keep everyone again. We are right there, closer then we have ever been. I guess this summer is when we find out how much Sarver wants to win!

 

[Arizona's Finest]

My other big problem is this - at the end of games, does anyone REALLY want to see Marion in there at the expense of Amare, Diaw or TT? Amare draws doubel-teams/goes to the foul line... Boris has shown the ability to be pretty clutch/create shots for others and TT is a MUCH better shooter than Marion is standing in the corner doing nothing (which is what he does in the half-court set). Would be be losing his defense? Yeah, but I'm not of the opinion that means much considering I don't hold him in as high of regard as most of you do defensively. Bottom linbe, the most effective lineup, scoring wise - which is what DA preaches, at the end of games, doesn't include a guy who's anot a very good outside shooter and can't create for others. And for that guy to be making 16 million dollars just doesn't cut it if we have to suffer depth problems because of his contract.

IMHO if you give Tyrus Thomas two years with the SUNS STAFF (i cant say what will happen if he goes to say Charlotte) he will be a better player than Marion. Maybe i am underatting Marion but Thomas has the same hops, is a better shot blocker and already has a better touch than Marion.

More i think about it - the more i like it. If Thomas develops at 75% of Amare's capacity than we have quite the team going into the next decade.....

 

[Cheesebeef]

To be honest, I'm pretty leery of getting rid of Kurt Thomas. The great thing about the team as assembled right now - assuming EVERYONE comes back, is that they can match-up with ANYONE - not just the Mavs and Miami, we can finally matchup with SA and Detroit as well. And as far as Marion goes, well, with rougher bigger teams, we've seem him literally dissappear against SA two years ago, we saw him play a pretty poor first round series againstt eh Lakes this year and it is JMHO, that TT would be more a threat out there against a SA or a Detroit than Marion would be. I mean who is Marion supposed to guard on SA? He can't guard Manu - we've seen Manu just eat him alive, same with Parker and he gets pushed around by Mohammed (as well he should considering the height difference).

Dallas ain't squat - they got lucky this year - we know we can beat them when healthy - but we still haven't gotten that SA monkye off our backs and anyone who doesn't think we'll have to go through them next year is kidding themself and when we do meet them, do we really want to hope with all our might that Marion will somehow be able to play against them for the first time in his career? I don't know, that scares the beejezus out of me

 

[JCSunsfan]

So what would the worst case scenario (within reason) be in this situation:

1. Amare comes back, but at significantly less than his former play.
2. Tyrus Thomas is not ready for prime time.
3. Chandler spends the season on and off the injury list because of his back.

Would still have Tim Thomas. KT would be pulling down rebounds and defending.
Amare would be playing, but would have more of a Shawn Marion type of effect on the game rather than an Amare effect.

Is it fair to say that Amare at 85% = Shawn Marion at 100% as far as overall impact on the game over a season.

Hmm.

Id still try to get Heinrich over Chandler.

 

[Joe Mama]

I like the idea of moving out to get someone like Tyrus Thomas, but I wouldn't touch Chandler right now. A year or two ago I thought he would be a great fit on this team. Now I don't believe that. The guy has almost no offensive game, and he is constantly injured. At one thing we frequently forget about Shawn Marion. He is a workhorse.

I really think this rumor is BS.

Joe

 

[JCSunsfan]

I really think this rumor is BS.

Joe

You're probably right, but it is one of those rare rumors that really has the potential to make sense for both teams. I guess that's why its getting traction here.

 

[goldseraph]

I love this idea. We need to sell high on Marion. With the emergence of Diaw, Marion is more expendable than ever, and his contract is really going to hurt us in the future IMO. Here's how I see this -

Lose: Marion

Gain: Tyrus Thomas, ability to re-sign Diaw and TT, possibly Barbosa. Then, if Chandler can be motivated we keep him, and have a great shot blocker and rebounder. If it doesn't work, he can at some point probably be dumped to the Knicks or another rich team that just needs a big body.

Lineup:

C - Kurt/Chandler
PF - Amare
SF - Diaw
SG - Bell
PG - Nash

Bench:

Tyrus
TT
Barbosa
Kurt/Chandler


That looks pretty damn fun to me...

 

[F-Dog]

Is it fair to say that Amare at 85% = Shawn Marion at 100% as far as overall impact on the game over a season.

Not to Shawn Marion. Even two seasons ago (when Amare was 100%), you could argue that Marion had more impact than Amare did.

As fondly as I remember the Steven Hunter experience, I don't think Chandler fits well with the Suns. Neither does Tyrus Thomas, for that matter...my guess is, the only way the Suns even try to move to #2 is if there's a chance for them to screw BC out of Bargnani.


Most likely, this is more of the usual garbage the Chicago press throws out whenever there's a chance for it. The main thing I get from this is that Kevin McHale finally convinced everybody he won't trade KG.

 

[pokerface]

As fondly as I remember the Steven Hunter experience, I don't think Chandler fits well with the Suns. Neither does Tyrus Thomas, for that matter...my guess is, the only way the Suns even try to move to #2 is if there's a chance for them to screw BC out of Bargnani.

Chandler can run with the Suns...I cant think of a better fit. Him or Dalembert.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

As fondly as I remember the Steven Hunter experience, I don't think Chandler fits well with the Suns. Neither does Tyrus Thomas, for that matter...my guess is, the only way the Suns even try to move to #2 is if there's a chance for them to screw BC out of Bargnani.

Chandler can run with the Suns...I cant think of a better fit. Him or Dalembert.

I can, Marcus Camby.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Not to Shawn Marion. Even two seasons ago (when Amare was 100%), you could argue that Marion had more impact than Amare did.

As fondly as I remember the Steven Hunter experience, I don't think Chandler fits well with the Suns. Neither does Tyrus Thomas, for that matter...my guess is, the only way the Suns even try to move to #2 is if there's a chance for them to screw BC out of Bargnani.

I'm going to assume you were drunk when you posted this -

1. Not even Shawn Marion's relatives believe he is more important to the Suns than Amare. There is no statistical or even ancedotel evidence that Marion was more valuable than STAT in 04 -05. I would say he was our fourth best player behind Nash, Amare, and JJ.

2. Chandler is MUCH better than Hunter. Because they are long, skinny and block shots does not make them the same player. Go look at the Rebounds per minute for each guy over the last two seasons. Now if you dont like Chandler because of his health problems well you are onto something...

3. Tyrus Thomas fits the Suns better then he fits any other team in the NBA (as do 80% of the players as the way you play growing up is the way the Suns play). If you are long, athletic, and can run the floor no ones going to utilize you better than Mike D'Antoni. This becomes doubly true if we moved Marion and had a void at 'athletic SF who can jump out of the gym'

4. BC has the first pick. Unless you are referring to Portland moving up to #1 and BC trading down a couple spots than no matter what we do, if BC wants the Euro - hes going to get him. I am more worried BC discovers our infatuation with Thomas and rethinks his position on the kid.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

As fondly as I remember the Steven Hunter experience, I don't think Chandler fits well with the Suns. Neither does Tyrus Thomas, for that matter...my guess is, the only way the Suns even try to move to #2 is if there's a chance for them to screw BC out of Bargnani.

I can, Marcus Camby.

That is exactly what i was thinking. Chandler is a younger version of Marcus Camby. Good and Bad

 

[boisesuns]

If we do trade Marion, we need to get Deeper. Diantoni will only play guys that will contribute, as evidence this year. We need to get some guys on the end of the bech that WILL ACTAULLY PLAY and get mins. Having fresh guys to come in and spell the team will help put us over the top.

 

[pokerface]

As fondly as I remember the Steven Hunter experience, I don't think Chandler fits well with the Suns. Neither does Tyrus Thomas, for that matter...my guess is, the only way the Suns even try to move to #2 is if there's a chance for them to screw BC out of Bargnani.

I can, Marcus Camby.

Camby is on the blocks??

 

[JoRain]

on Denver everybody is available exept Melo !

 

[dreamcastrocks]

That is exactly what i was thinking. Chandler is a younger version of Marcus Camby. Good and Bad

I think that Chandler's potential is Camby. Camby has a better offensive game, mainly because Chandler's is non-existant.

Both of them have injury problems, but Camby, unlike Chander does not take nights or weeks off.

 

[sunsfn]

I am not sure Chandler fits the suns. He can run, but he needs to play away from the basket on offense so Amare has room to work. Chandler only gets points from put backs and if he can not hit a 10-15 footer D'Antoni is not going to start him. He makes $9 mil this year and I do not think the suns will pay him that much to come off the bench. To say nothing about missing a part of every season with back injuries.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Neither does Tyrus Thomas, for that matter...my guess is, the only way the Suns even try to move to #2 is if there's a chance for them to screw BC out of Bargnani.

From what I hear Thomas has a pretty money 15-17 foot shot. Add in his drive, rebounding and shotblocking - and he is perfect for the Suns. The biggest hole in his game right now is his ball handling.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

....which is something Marion lacks even after 7 years.

 

[scoutmasterdave]

From what I hear Thomas has a pretty money 15-17 foot shot. Add in his drive, rebounding and shotblocking - and he is perfect for the Suns. The biggest hole in his game right now is his ball handling.

Wow - that sounds like Marion.

 

[Gaddabout]

Camby is on the blocks??

More likely on the stretcher.

People who think Chandler is one-tool player with no business in the Suns rotation are seriously undervaluing what Chandler can do. People who think all of Chandler's tools will suddenly become available and utilized in the Suns system are seriously overvaluing Chandler's ability to stay focused for 82 games.

Financially speaking, for $9 mil next year you'd have a 7-1 center with a questionable back. However, $9 mil is not a horrible contract for a legimate starting center, and he has averaged 27 minutes a game in 159 games the past two seasons, so his back seems more of a subjective concern and not directly affecting his current play. While he's not the offensive guy you want, he did average over 3 offense rebounds per game last year, and was right at 9 per game. He also averages about 1.5 blocks per game for his career, so you can pretty much count on that.

The question mark for Chandler as a member of the Suns is pretty much the same for any man his size: Do the Suns want a center incapable of playing the high-post and is probably not effective in the two-man game? Chandler is neither someone who can handle the ball nor pass the ball well, although he's better than, say, Chris Kaman. At the very least, he would have to develop a 15-foot shoot from the baseline to stay on the floor -- anything that would make defenses feel obligated to guard him.