Rumor: Marion to CHI for Chandler and #2

[Joe Mama]

It's like talking to a brick wall.

I see why Eric left.

wait a second. I can understand if you want to say that Shawn Marion takes difficult defensive assignments because he's usually guarding much bigger players. However when you make these lists it seems like you are saying that he guards each of these players effectively, which he does not.

Elton Brand for example was killing Shawn Marion. Tim Thomas did a much better job against brand even though he was frequently torched as well. The other thing is that Shawn Marion does not guard any of these players without a significant amount of help defense.

If the Phoenix Suns trade Shawn Marion in the summer (I really don't think they will) and better yet something significant in return, and I'm not talking about a player who is even more overpaid than Marion. they need to get Diaw signed to an extension this summer because I think he's going to blow up even more next year.

I kind of feel the same way about Barbosa as I do about Shawn Marion. I don't think the Phoenix Suns necessarily need him to win a championship, but if the trade him they need to get something valuable in return. I'd rather lose him after next year for nothing than lose a chance at a championship because again nothing to replace him.

Joe Mama

 

[pokerface]

It's like talking to a brick wall.

I see why Eric left.

You forgot the

 

[sly fly]

wait a second. I can understand if you want to say that Shawn Marion takes difficult defensive assignments because he's usually guarding much bigger players. However when you make these lists it seems like you are saying that he guards each of these players effectively, which he does not.

Elton Brand for example was killing Shawn Marion. Tim Thomas did a much better job against brand even though he was frequently torched as well. The other thing is that Shawn Marion does not guard any of these players without a significant amount of help defense.

If the Phoenix Suns trade Shawn Marion in the summer (I really don't think they will) and better yet something significant in return, and I'm not talking about a player who is even more overpaid than Marion. they need to get Diaw signed to an extension this summer because I think he's going to blow up even more next year.

I kind of feel the same way about Barbosa as I do about Shawn Marion. I don't think the Phoenix Suns necessarily need him to win a championship, but if the trade him they need to get something valuable in return. I'd rather lose him after next year for nothing than lose a chance at a championship because again nothing to replace him.

Joe Mama

I didn't say he guarded them effectively. (Hence the "brick wall" comment).

However, Marion was (and has been) PHX's last line of defense (although, you're right, TT had to swich over on Brand.)

Marion has been for as long as I can remember been asked to guard the oppositions most talented offensive player. Don't you think the coaching staff recognizes his attributes?

Bottom line, is that Marion played out-of-position the entire year. So, what did he do? 20-12? Played at an MVP level much of the year.

The core will be back, as adding Amare puts Marion back to his regular position on the floor... AND possibly keeps him rested w/o fading the last 1/4 of the year (which happened this year).

Keeping a talented and winning team together in the NBA is a tough thing to do. When you rotate players in and out every year, you're taking a huge gamble that the moves paid off. Fortunately, PHX caught lightning in a bottle (bringing in Diaw). Let's see how it shakes out before you start playing fantasy basketball again.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

BTW, Elton Brand torched the entire league this year.
.

not to the tune of shooting 75% (or whatever ridiculous number it was) that he got against marion.

 

[George O'Brien]

not to the tune of shooting 75% (or whatever ridiculous number it was) that he got against marion.

It would have been interesting to see if anyone could have dealt with Brand the way he was shooting. Overall I thought TT (who played him the most) did a good job on him, but he kept hitting really difficult shots like spinning fallaways like they were layups.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It would have been interesting to see if anyone could have dealt with Brand the way he was shooting. Overall I thought TT (who played him the most) did a good job on him, but he kept hitting really difficult shots like spinning fallaways like they were layups.

you have to understand our lack of anyone to guard him was why he shot so well. It's not the like the Nuggets were defsnive stoppers, yet Brand only put up 17.8 points per game on 47% shooting veruss the 31 and 60% shooting against us.

Not to mention that the guy only averaged 24 and 52 during the regular season. Branbd's a good player, but our lack of ANYONE to guard made him look to be MUCH better than he actually was.

 

[sly fly]

not to the tune of shooting 75% (or whatever ridiculous number it was) that he got against marion.

Don't put it all on Marion. Brand was a beast, regardless. There were times he was hitting from all angles, especially early in the series.

Brand peaked late, and in my mind was the second best player in the playoffs (behind Wade).

 

[Cheesebeef]

Don't put it all on Marion. Brand was a beast, regardless. There were times he was hitting from all angles, especially early in the series.

Brand peaked late, and in my mind was the second best player in the playoffs (behind Wade).

Sorry, but ONE series against a team with no big men doesn't make you the second best player in the playoffs. Brand's pedestrian 17 points per game and 9 boards in the first round series shouldn't be overlooked just because he absued us. How you can say Brand was better than Lebron or Dirk or Duncan in the playoffs is kind of mind-boggling to me.

Brand's a VERY GOOD player, but people have very short memories and he's not an elite player IMO.

 

[devilalum]

Sorry, but ONE series against a team with no big men doesn't make you the second best player in the playoffs. Brand's pedestrian 17 points per game and 9 boards in the first round series shouldn't be overlooked just because he absued us. How you can say Brand was better than Lebron or Dirk or Duncan in the playoffs is kind of mind-boggling to me.

Brand's a VERY GOOD player, but people have very short memories and he's not an elite player IMO.

So then what you're saying is that Marion/Brand was not a favorable matchup for the SUns?

 

[Cheesebeef]

So then what you're saying is that Marion/Brand was not a favorable matchup for the SUns?

I'd say Brand v. ANYONE on the Suns was an unfavorable matchup.

 

[devilalum]

I'd say Brand v. ANYONE on the Suns was an unfavorable matchup.

I'd include Amare in that assessment but at least a healthy Amare would abuse Brand on defence.

 

[sly fly]

Sorry, but ONE series against a team with no big men doesn't make you the second best player in the playoffs. Brand's pedestrian 17 points per game and 9 boards in the first round series shouldn't be overlooked just because he absued us. How you can say Brand was better than Lebron or Dirk or Duncan in the playoffs is kind of mind-boggling to me.

Brand's a VERY GOOD player, but people have very short memories and he's not an elite player IMO.

Cheese, the only short memory here is you failing to see how Brand was a monster in the PHX series. C'mon... Lebron lasted as long as Brand did. Brand didn't need to put up big numbers in the 1st round because they absolutely detroyed the Nuggets will to win. Do you remember how many games that series went? And, Brand got tons of rest that series. He could of put up bigger #'s if they needed them.

Dirk will always have a "bugaboo" in my mind because he has the worst defensive footwork/desire I've ever seen. Dirk has warts, and Miami exposed them in Games 3,4,5, and 6. PHX should of went right at the SOB.

Duncan was good, granted. But, the defending champs lost on their own floor in Game 7. That lies on Duncan.

Brand proved to be one of the best interior defenders in the league, and is a beast anywhere within 17 feet. Please tell me you were watching the same Brand I was watching. He IS an elite player, and I'll guarantee you he dominates at the next Olympics.

 

[devilalum]

Cheese, the only short memory here is you failing to see how Brand was a monster in the PHX series. C'mon... Lebron lasted as long as Brand did. Brand didn't need to put up big numbers in the 1st round because they absolutely detroyed the Nuggets will to win. Do you remember how many games that series went? And, Brand got tons of rest that series. He could of put up bigger #'s if they needed them.

Dirk will always have a "bugaboo" in my mind because he has the worst defensive footwork/desire I've ever seen. Dirk has warts, and Miami exposed them in Games 3,4,5, and 6. PHX should of went right at the SOB.

Duncan was good, granted. But, the defending champs lost on their own floor in Game 7. That lies on Duncan.

Brand proved to be one of the best interior defenders in the league, and is a beast anywhere within 17 feet. Please tell me you were watching the same Brand I was watching. He IS an elite player, and I'll guarantee you he dominates at the next Olympics.

Who did the Suns have that they could have sent at Dirk?

 

[lobo]

tyson chicken

i accidentally came across this as i am not a nba fan...but know enough since i live in chicago to tell all of you who do root for the suns...pray that you don't get this guy...a real 7 foot stiff who for ANY money, yet alone what he is being paid...which is totally incredible....hope this is only a rumor....the nba ain't for me...but i have been a cardinal fan since their chicago day...bye everyone

 

[JCSunsfan]

Sorry, but ONE series against a team with no big men doesn't make you the second best player in the playoffs. Brand's pedestrian 17 points per game and 9 boards in the first round series shouldn't be overlooked just because he absued us. How you can say Brand was better than Lebron or Dirk or Duncan in the playoffs is kind of mind-boggling to me.

Brand's a VERY GOOD player, but people have very short memories and he's not an elite player IMO.

Brand was the most creative prolific scorer of the playoffs outside of Wade. It was NOT poor defense that allowed Brand to score in the Suns series, he scored from all angles with heavy double-teams. Brand does not have the supporting cast that Wade, Dirk, or Duncan has, but his team played very tough in the playoffs. He is a top 5 league player IMO.

 

[devilalum]

i accidentally came across this as i am not a nba fan...but know enough since i live in chicago to tell all of you who do root for the suns...pray that you don't get this guy...a real 7 foot stiff who for ANY money, yet alone what he is being paid...which is totally incredible....hope this is only a rumor....the nba ain't for me...but i have been a cardinal fan since their chicago day...bye everyone

Of course this is why Bulls fans made up this rumor. Fans are always trying to figure out how to trade their garbage for good players. The only way I could see anything like this happening is if the Suns truly believe that they can get an All Star with the seond pick.

The last time the SUns picked #2 they took Armon Gilliam.

 

[Errntknght]

I'm with JCSunsfan and sly fly on this one... Brand was spectacular on both ends of the floor against us. We could run Kamen off the floor but with Elton rebounding and blocking shots we still had to beat them with our long range shooting.

I didn't watch much of the Nuggets series and I'm sure Camby did a far better job defending Brand than any Sun did but the Clips romped over the Nugs so he got the job done.

 

[sly fly]

Who did the Suns have that they could have sent at Dirk?

Good question. I'm sure the coaching staff is still trying to figure that out. It would have been nice to see Marion try and take advantage of him, but it wasn't meant to be, I guess.

That being said, if Dirk scores on me... I'm taking it right back through his chest.

Best way to counter-attack an offensive-first player like him is to make him work on D. He wants no part of that, especially if he's going to play 48 minutes. Wonder why Dirk was a no-show in the 4th against Miami?

I can't remember how many times I saw Dirk lose his man in the PHX and Miami series. The guy is a back-door defender if I ever saw one. Dirk is already out of position on most defensive series. And, he's too slow to recover once he does get beat. Pat Riley figured it out.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Brand was the most creative prolific scorer of the playoffs outside of Wade. It was NOT poor defense that allowed Brand to score in the Suns series, he scored from all angles with heavy double-teams. Brand does not have the supporting cast that Wade, Dirk, or Duncan has, but his team played very tough in the playoffs. He is a top 5 league player IMO.

Brand doesn't have the supporting cast? Are you kidding me? Sam Cassel - great PG/playoff performer, elevates EVERY team he goes to, Mobley - solid 2 guard, Kaman, top 10 C in the league, Quinton Ross, solid defensive player - so, basically a REALLY well rounded starting lineup, with Maggette - a fireplug off the bench who can drive and pick up fouls by the bunches, Livingston - a playmaker and a dead-eye three point shooter with Vlad - and that supporting cast isn't better than Wade who had a team full of HAS-BEENS and a broken down Shaq? Or Lebron who's got NOTHING on his team? H emight not have the supporting cast Duncan or Dirk do, but the Clippers are about as solidly built as any team int he league this past year and to think otherwise is pretty damn foolish.

As far as Sly' comment about Lebron only getting as far as Brand - yeah, but you fail to mention that Bron has NOTHING on his team, whereas Brand has a very good supporting cast AND Bron took that team within a OR of beating the best team in the regular season, completely healthy, rather than Brand losing in the same round to a team who was missing two starters and had Nash beaten down as much as we've ever seen him. Not to mention that Bron's stats are much superior to Brand's in the playoffs.

Brand - a TOP 5 PLAYER? Wow - people don't realize there IS basketball outside the Phoenix Suns and how people light us up.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I have no idea why most people on this board have such a hard time admitting the Suns are a very poor defensive team.

 

[HooverDam]

Kaman, top 10 C in the league

Thats not saying much (or anything actually) with the state of centers in the league. When Ming and Big Z are some of the best centers going, its certainly a dry time for the position.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Thats not saying much (or anything actually) with the state of centers in the league. When Ming and Big Z are some of the best centers going, its certainly a dry time for the position.

yeah, top 10 is actually being a bit harsh - I actually think Kama's one of the top 6 C's int he NBA and is young and improving. The guy rebounds well, is a big body and has some offensive game. If you watch Clippers games (I live in LA so I get to see most of them) you'd see the guy has game, but if you just watche dhim against the Suns, well, you wouldn't know it. Buthey, if you watched Shaq against the Suns, you'd think he had no game either.