Rumor: Marion to CHI for Chandler and #2

[NastyOne]

If the rumor with Philly about Barbosa and our two first for Dalembert and #13 actually happens, then what happens to this rumor? We can't trade Marion for Chandler if we traded for Dalembert?

I pray to the gods Philly is dumb enough to trade Dalembert and the 13th pick for Barbosa.(Even though hes a good young player)

Does D'Antoni now ask for Ben Gordon and the #2 for Marion? Gordan would be a huge upgrade over Barbosa, and we can still draft Tyrus Thomas/Rudy Gay/Adam Morrison/Brandon Roy.

Nash
Bell
Diaw
Amare
Dalembert

Gordon,#2 Pick,T.Thomas,K.Thomas,Jones,#13 Pick(pg)

 

[JCSunsfan]

If the rumor with Philly about Barbosa and our two first for Dalembert and #13 actually happens, then what happens to this rumor? We can't trade Marion for Chandler if we traded for Dalembert?

I pray to the gods Philly is dumb enough to trade Dalembert and the 13th pick for Barbosa.(Even though hes a good young player)

Does D'Antoni now ask for Ben Gordon and the #2 for Marion? Gordan would be a huge upgrade over Barbosa, and we can still draft Tyrus Thomas/Rudy Gay/Adam Morrison/Brandon Roy.

Nash
Bell
Diaw
Amare
Dalembert

Gordon,#2 Pick,T.Thomas,K.Thomas,Jones,#13 Pick(pg)

First I've heard of Dalembert included in the Philly deal. He certainly hasnt performed up to his contract yet.

 

[Ryanwb]

Why does Chandler only average about 25 minutes a game for his career?

 

[NastyOne]

First I've heard of Dalembert included in the Philly deal. He certainly hasnt performed up to his contract yet.

There is a thread up about some fan calling in saying he heard on the radio about Barbosa/#21/#27 for Dalembert/#13.

Who knows, could be Bull.

Either way i would much rather Dalembert over Chandler.

 

[NastyOne]

Why does Chandler only average about 25 minutes a game for his career?

Cause hes always had back problems, and it limits his minutes on the court.

I would stay away from him and his 9+mil per contract, because if that back gets worse we're screwed.

 

[SunsTzu]

Why does Chandler only average about 25 minutes a game for his career?

Because he is basically a much beter rebounding version of Steven Hunter with a worse offensive game and hands of stone.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Because he is basically a much beter rebounding version of Steven Hunter with a worse offensive game and hands of stone.

I would say that their offensive game is about the same, as are their hands. Both are abysmal on offense

 

[F-Dog]

I can, Marcus Camby.

Me too, Mehmet Okur. Or, if you're looking for someone who's actually available, Kurt or Tim Thomas would do nicely...


Boris Diaw's lack of range was a significant issue in these playoffs. Bring in a guy with no shot at all and the team's half-court offense goes straight down the tubes.

 

[CardNots]

....which is something Marion lacks even after 7 years.

At this point, I'd say he won't be improving this skill...

 

[F-Dog]

I'm going to assume you were drunk when you posted this

So what? I'm catching flak from the baseball fans now?

1. Not even Shawn Marion's relatives believe he is more important to the Suns than Amare. There is no statistical or even ancedotel evidence that Marion was more valuable than STAT in 04 -05.

Well, Marion did have better all-around numbers than Amare that year. He was also the better man and team defender, and the team went into the tank in the one game Marion missed that year, while doing surprisingly well in the games they didn't have Amare.

Obviously, Amare gave the team some things that Marion couldn't, like iso scoring and post presence. That's why there's an argument.

Now if you dont like Chandler because of his health problems well you are onto something...

Well, that and the fact he can't shoot. His $10m/yr price tag doesn't help, either.

 

[F-Dog]

From what I hear Thomas has a pretty money 15-17 foot shot. Add in his drive, rebounding and shotblocking - and he is perfect for the Suns. The biggest hole in his game right now is his ball handling.

For the 15-footer to be a weapon, he's got to shoot it like Frye, KT or McDyess...I don't remember anything like that when I was watching him in the NCAA's this year.

My guess is he's more like Stromile, Kenyon Martin or Diop. I'm sure those three have no problem stroking that shot in an empty gym.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

For the 15-footer to be a weapon, he's got to shoot it like Frye, KT or McDyess...I don't remember anything like that when I was watching him in the NCAA's this year.

I just pulled up his information on our site. We have 11 games for Thomas....

His Spot-Up FG percentage was 44.4%. That is pretty good for a big man.

Comparison -

KT Spot Ups - 46.21%
Frye Spot Ups - 39.86%
Dice Spot Ups - 46.41%

 

[Cheesebeef]

Me too, Mehmet Okur. Or, if you're looking for someone who's actually available, Kurt or Tim Thomas would do nicely...


Boris Diaw's lack of range was a significant issue in these playoffs. Bring in a guy with no shot at all and the team's half-court offense goes straight down the tubes.

Boris' lack of range? Are you kidding me? The guy's shot from 15-17 feet was pretty weak at the beginning of the season, but he was pretty dead on once the playoffs rolled around and even hit a few threes in there as well.

And to say Marion was arguably BETTER and MORE IMPORTANT than Amare in 2004-5 is just flat out laughable. With Amare, we put the wood to the Mavs, without him, we got handled - not with ease - but two blowout losses in the last two games hardly shows we were THAT close to beating them. And if you want to bring up the injury card with Raja - well, I'll throw JJ right back at ya. And if you want to bring up that Amare had Marion in that series, well Marion had Diaw in this series who played the role of Amare, averging 26 points a game, 7 boards and 5 assists... and if you want to say we got further without Stoudamire, well you can thank the scheduling gods for that one. PLaying the weak-ass Lakers, then the Clippers hardly compares to playing the Mavs in the 2nd round and the Spurs in the 3rd.

Marion, more important than Amare, that's a good one.

 

[F-Dog]

I just pulled up his information on our site. We have 11 games for Thomas....

His Spot-Up FG percentage was 44.4%. That is pretty good for a big man.

Comparison -

KT Spot Ups - 46.21%
Frye Spot Ups - 39.86%
Dice Spot Ups - 46.41%

First, you're comparing college to the pros. Second, you're comparing known shooters against a player who's not going to shoot unless he's wide open. Third, you're comparing the 18-to-20-footers the other three take against the spot-up shots Tyrus got. Who's to say those aren't all 8-footers?

Even so, I'm surprised Tyrus shot that well. I'm tempted to say that it's 11 games worth of anomoly, and his percentage would be lower next year even if he stayed in college.

 

[slinslin]

Boris does lack range, he is scared to take the jumper. You can see it, he is not comfortable taking it.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Boris does lack range, he is scared to take the jumper. You can see it, he is not comfortable taking it.

Quit living in the past, clearly Boris improved exponentially last year, and his shot became more than adequate as the year went on. The guy is unbelieveably talented and young, and will only get better...

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Boris' lack of range? Are you kidding me? The guy's shot from 15-17 feet was pretty weak at the beginning of the season, but he was pretty dead on once the playoffs rolled around and even hit a few threes in there as well.

When Diaw has nobody within ten feet from him he's a pretty good shooter right now but so is every SF in the NBA. I would not say his shot is dead-on.

But you're right though, his shot is developing nicely and he's already got the form down which is half the battle.

 

[SunsTzu]

I would say that their offensive game is about the same, as are their hands. Both are abysmal on offense

I disagree. While not great Hunter wasn't nearly as bad as Chandler handling the ball and could suprise you with a pass every once in awhile. Both their offensive games rely on being within 2ft of the hoop yet Chandler has only shot over 50% twice while Hunter has only shot below %50 once(his rookie year). I also do feel Hunter has better hands and infact thought he had better hands than Chandler even when he was playing with a thumb injury with the Suns most of the year. Hunter isn't quite the TO machine Chandler or foul magnet Chandler has become either.

Chandler is an elite rebounder(which I do feel is the Suns biggest weakness) who is a decent too good shot blocker. But he offers pretty much nothing else, and I'm not a fan of his overall defense despite his shot blocking.

 

[Cheesebeef]

First, you're comparing college to the pros. Second, you're comparing known shooters against a player who's not going to shoot unless he's wide open. Third, you're comparing the 18-to-20-footers the other three take against the spot-up shots Tyrus got. Who's to say those aren't all 8-footers?

Even so, I'm surprised Tyrus shot that well. I'm tempted to say that it's 11 games worth of anomoly, and his percentage would be lower next year even if he stayed in college.

wow - so you expect Tyrus Thomas' game to get WORSE as he gets older, yeah, that happens a lot with kid's of his kind of talent/motor.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

First, you're comparing college to the pros. Second, you're comparing known shooters against a player who's not going to shoot unless he's wide open. Third, you're comparing the 18-to-20-footers the other three take against the spot-up shots Tyrus got. Who's to say those aren't all 8-footers?

Even so, I'm surprised Tyrus shot that well. I'm tempted to say that it's 11 games worth of anomoly, and his percentage would be lower next year even if he stayed in college.

I will give you the pros versus college game.

But in terms of the distace, the manner in which we log pretty much dictates that a spot up is at least 15 feet away. Anything closer usually fits into a sub catagory of another root play type.

I definitely wish we had more games for him - LSU wasn't on TV a ton until the tourney. But those games do include all the tourney games.

I do think that he will have a very respectable mid range spot up game in the pros off the bat, similar to what Frye did this year. The nature of the Suns offense will get him open looks from 15-17 feet. Plus I know that he is working very hard on his perimeter game this summer, instead of his post moves. Like I said, his ball handling needs vast improvement - but it appears he is very commited to developing that kind of game.

 

[F-Dog]

Boris' lack of range? Are you kidding me? The guy's shot from 15-17 feet was pretty weak at the beginning of the season, but he was pretty dead on once the playoffs rolled around and even hit a few threes in there as well.

Boris couldn't shoot well enough to get Sagana Diop off the floor, and Diop's presence was probably the #2 reason the Suns lost that series, after Raja's injury. (He had the same problem with Kwame Brown in the Lakers series, and it nearly turned out to be fatal then, too.)

And to say Marion was arguably BETTER and MORE IMPORTANT than Amare in 2004-5 is just flat out laughable. With Amare, we put the wood to the Mavs, without him, we got handled - not with ease - but two blowout losses in the last two games hardly shows we were THAT close to beating them.

Apples and oranges--you're equating the 2004-5 Mavs to the 2005-6 version here, and 2005-6 Diaw to 2004-5 Amare (a comparison I wouldn't even touch, btw), and "healthy Nash" to "exhausted Nash". Also, the Suns "put the wood to the Mavs" in OT of game 6, after Amare had fouled out, by relying exclusively on the two-man game with Nash and Marion.

I won't question your credentials as a Suns fan, though.

 

[F-Dog]

wow - so you expect Tyrus Thomas' game to get WORSE as he gets older, yeah, that happens a lot with kid's of his kind of talent/motor.

If you'll go back and read that quote again, you'll see that I didn't say that at all.

What I said was that his current shot is much worse than the numbers suggest.

 

[F-Dog]

I do think that he will have a very respectable mid range spot up game in the pros off the bat, similar to what Frye did this year.

That's a huge leap of faith IMO. Frye was a tremendous shooter in college--you could even argue that mid-range shooting was his primary skill as an NBA prospect.

To me, Tyrus' closest comp coming into the NBA is Kenyon Martin. Just out of curiousity, what's K-Mart's spot-up shooting percentage the last few years?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Boris couldn't shoot well enough to get Sagana Diop off the floor, and Diop's presence was probably the #2 reason the Suns lost that series, after Raja's injury. (He had the same problem with Kwame Brown in the Lakers series, and it nearly turned out to be fatal then, too.)


Apples and oranges--you're equating the 2004-5 Mavs to the 2005-6 version here, and 2005-6 Diaw to 2004-5 Amare (a comparison I wouldn't even touch, btw), and "healthy Nash" to "exhausted Nash". Also, the Suns "put the wood to the Mavs" in OT of game 6, after Amare had fouled out, by relying exclusively on the two-man game with Nash and Marion.

I won't question your credentials as a Suns fan, though.

Ah yes - it was the play of Boris Diaw that ultimately proved fatal in the Mavs series and almost against the Lakers. How dare we expect anything more of a guy who averaged 13, 7 and 6 during the regular season to get 18/5/6 against the Lakers and then 24/8.5/3 against the Mavs. I'd much rather he had played like Marion in those series, you know a guy you can count on in the regular seaosn to put up 22 points a game and then shrink to 18 and 16.8 respectively, all the while getting crushed by whoever he played on defense, whether it was Odom, Dirk or even, GASP, a SF in Howard who scored 20 or more 5 times against, even though he had only managed to do so 20 times in the previous, oh, what 90 games? But yeah, those series we lost or almost lost should definitely be laid at the feet of Boris...

Wow man, I don't question your credentials as a Suns fan, but with the above statement and the statement about Marion > Amare in terms of importance I certainly question your sanity.

 

[hsandhu]

Does anyone know if tyrus thomas can guard small forwards? Is he quick enough laterally to stay in front of a Josh Howard?