Rumor-Vince Young scores 6 on Wonderlic Test

[Shane]

It's pretty lonely out there on that limb, huh, Shane?

No there are many people that agree wiht me when it comes to Young. Apparently the word coming out of the combine is many NFL personel as well. SO no I dont feel lonely at all.

 

[Ed Burmila]

No there are many people that agree wiht me when it comes to Young. Apparently the word coming out of the combine is many NFL personel as well. SO no I dont feel lonely at all.

Yeah, and there's no chance that they're just blowing smoke and hoping to snag Young with the 5th or 6th pick? Come on. You can't seriously buy anything they say at this point. Like any team does its internal talent deliberations in public and in front of ESPN's reporters.

Shane, I hereby bet you $1 that Young is a top-3 pick. Please bump this and remind me to pay up if I'm wrong.

 

[kerouac9]

You're all alone in questioning Young's performance as a college player. Very, very alone. Find one NFL personnel guy who thinks that Young just wasn't all that great his last two years at Texas. That think's he's a "one year wonder". Good luck.

There are tons of people--including myself--who are skeptical about whether or not he can translate those abilities that let him shine in college to the NFL gridiron, but no one can possibly denigrate his performance as a Longhorn.

You're very alone in that conversation.

 

[Ed Burmila]

Yeah I still don't understand how Cutler gets a pass but Young is somehow a flash in the pan?

Jesus H Christmas. Look at Cutler's college stats and you'd project him to about the 7th round. If you think any team cares that Young was only terrific as a Junior and Senior but didn't have much of a sophomore year.....

 

[Shane]

Yeah, and there's no chance that they're just blowing smoke and hoping to snag Young with the 5th or 6th pick? Come on. You can't seriously buy anything they say at this point. Like any team does its internal talent deliberations in public and in front of ESPN's reporters.

Shane, I hereby bet you $1 that Young is a top-3 pick. Please bump this and remind me to pay up if I'm wrong.

I'll bet you 20 if your that confident. Im quite certain every NFL person in the NFL isnt always leaking hot air.

 

[ajcardfan]

[/B]

Thats all well and good. But I dont consider a one year wonder very accomplished. Those awards are nice for his trophy case. But they dont show a lengthy history of accomplishment( I guess your definition of accomplished and mine are two different things) . Especially not at the division 1 level. Heck the awards in 03 and 04 are laughable based on his stats alone.

His Honorable Mention at QB in 2004 was behind Jason White and Reggie McNeal.

I bring that up because it shows why some of us thought McNeal was going to be a better QB prospect than Young prior to this last season. McNeal had a very disappointing senior year. But, he had a sensational Shrine game (and week of practice) and did well at the combine. I wouldn't pass on Young at #10, but Reggie McNeal in Rd. 3 would be a nice consolation prize. He's got the talent to make a GM look really, really smart.

 

[Shane]

You're all alone in questioning Young's performance as a college player. Very, very alone. Find one NFL personnel guy who thinks that Young just wasn't all that great his last two years at Texas. That think's he's a "one year wonder". Good luck.

There are tons of people--including myself--who are skeptical about whether or not he can translate those abilities that let him shine in college to the NFL gridiron, but no one can possibly denigrate his performance as a Longhorn.

You're very alone in that conversation.

He is a Qb right? His passing stats in 2004 are pefectly pedestrian. 12 Tds, 11 Ints, and only 1800 yards. Not quite glaring stats for a QB. Now if you want to throw in his 1,000 yards rushing and 14 TD's you may have an argument. Problem is VY will not be a MV in any sense of the word. He will have to be more of a passer first in the NFL something I highly doubt he will be able to do. He doesnt take to well to coaching(right from the mouth of Mack Brown) So like I said as a QB( a guy whos primary responsability is to throw the ball) he is a ONE YEAR WONDER!

 

[kerouac9]

He is a Qb right? His passing stats in 2004 are pefectly pedestrian. 12 Tds, 11 Ints, and only 1800 yards. Not quite glaring stats for a QB. Now if you want to throw in his 1,000 yards rushing and 14 TD's you may have an argument. Problem is VY will not be a MV in any sense of the word. He will have to be more of a passer first in the NFL something I highly doubt he will be able to do. He doesnt take to well to coaching(right from the mouth of Mack Brown) So like I said as a QB( a guy whos primary responsability is to throw the ball) he is a ONE YEAR WONDER!

I'm with you, but he college QBs often run, and what Mao was saying was that Vince Young was a GREAT college quarterback. And he was. There's no disputing it. The fact that you are just demeans all of your other arguements.

 

[Ed Burmila]

Shane, aren't a whole lot of the players who get picked high in the draft basing their status on one really good season? There aren't a whole lot of guys who have 4 years of stardom on their resumes. The whole idea behind coming out as a junior (when players elect to do so) is to strike while the iron is hot.

And I'm still slayed by the arguments here. To recap:

Cutler = a half-decent senior season preceded by a bunch of mediocre ones = he made "progress" or "grew" as a Senior = a good thing.

Young = a phenomena senior season preceded by average ones = one year wonder = a bad thing.

 

[BW52]

Shane, aren't a whole lot of the players who get picked high in the draft basing their status on one really good season? There aren't a whole lot of guys who have 4 years of stardom on their resumes. The whole idea behind coming out as a junior (when players elect to do so) is to strike while the iron is hot.

And I'm still slayed by the arguments here. To recap:

Cutler = a half-decent senior season preceded by a bunch of mediocre ones = he made "progress" or "grew" as a Senior = a good thing.

Young = a phenomena senior season preceded by average ones = one year wonder = a bad thing.

Cutler career,
FR ATT 212 CP 103 YDS 1433 TD 10 INT 9
Soph 327 187 2347 18 13
JR 241 147 1844 10 5
SR 462 273 3073 21 9

Senior ywar All-SEC,SEC offensive player of year,4 year starter.


Young`s career
FR ATT 143 CP 84 YDS 1155 TD 6 INT 7
Soph 250 148 1849 12 11
JR 325 212 3036 26 10


Both players have outstanding qualities that would be assets to the Cards.Young will probably be drafted before the 10th pick and I have doubts that DG will draft a QB in RD 1.I don`t agree with the statement that Cutler had mediorce years before his senior year.If either player ended up in AZ i would be pleased to have the QBOF .

 

[Redsz]

Those passing stats are in addition to something like 1,000 yds and 10 TD's rushing for Young.

Young has all the intangibles that Cutler and Leinart have. But he has more upside than ether based on his athletic ability. That's why I would be thrilled if he slid to #10.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I am not bashing anyone. It is a discussion about his whole elevated status and possible slide. I thought he was over rated all along, before the test rumor.

Frank Gore didn't slide. The guy is learning disabled. Do you know what that means? So, who is bashing?

Frank Gore succeeded in getting a degree in 4 years at U of Miami, despite being dyslexic big time. He managed to qualify with higher than NCAA SAT score and GPA, out of High School. Yes, Miami has higher standards than U of Texas. All of that despite publically stated dyslexia. If you know anything about dyslexic students, they test in a controlled but fair unbiased environment, not something like the Combine administered Wunderlic test. If you want to bash Gore , as you have constantly done in the past, do it. The guy has had 3 major knee reconstructions , is learning disabled, lived in abject poverty his whole life got drafted in the 3rd round yet somehow ended up the starting RB for San Francisco 49ers and will be their RB next year. Hope you feel better now.

So stick your personal vendetta in your ear. Find a bad guy to bash from U of Miami with your Miami hate and let me know when you want to debate anything related to football.

First off I am not bashing him. Just stating that it was "rich" that you defend anyone to the teeth if they are U of Miami yet bash VY on a wonderlic score that wasnt even true. So you can put your holier-than-thou crap to rest.

I am glad Frank Gore got through hard times, ask VY where he grew up.. Ninth Ward ghetto in Houston....think he didnt have it tough?

And U of Miami does have higher standards than Texas. In terms of you have to be a 2-time felon before they let you in!

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Tell that to Alex Smith. Yeah, he was a rookie, but he was still having problems getting into ande out of his drop in Week 17.

In a more advanced case, look at Jaguars' QB Byron Leftwich. He's still having problems adjusting to playing under center, to the detriment of his running game. This had been reported multiple times this season.

You can say that it's not a concern, but there are a lot--a LOT--of question marks about this guy. Eventually, they have to accrue.

Look I am not syaing there arent many question marks about VY but if you cant see the talent, leadership, confidence and ability that he has, I dont know what to tell you.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

How so? One Great year and title in college in a game that requires 22 players doesnt make you all that accomplished. His other two season at TX were nothing to glow about.

Did you happen to see his performance against Michigan last year in the Rose Bowl? He completed 60% of his passes in 04' with a 128 QB rating. yeah he is a one-hit wonder....

 

[JeffGollin]

I Want to Chime in on Cutler

Yeah I still don't understand how Cutler gets a pass but Young is somehow a flash in the pan?
I keep hearing Mike Mayock sing Cutler's praises (with others concurring). And I see him describing Cutler on tape (i.e. "Did you see the way that ball zipped to the sideline!") But I don't see the ball zipping to the sideline.

My question (and concern) - Are we falling prey to the power of suggestion? Or is Cutler, in fact, actually making those throws in superlative fashion?

I have a lot of respect for Mayock, but I still trust my eyes more than anyone. And right now my eyes aren't telling me to go: "Wow!"

Anyone else have the same feeling? Disagree? (Buehler?)

 

[ajcardfan]

Yeah I still don't understand how Cutler gets a pass but Young is somehow a flash in the pan?
I keep hearing Mike Mayock sing Cutler's praises (with others concurring). And I see him describing Cutler on tape (i.e. "Did you see the way that ball zipped to the sideline!") But I don't see the ball zipping to the sideline.

My question (and concern) - Are we falling prey to the power of suggestion? Or is Cutler, in fact, actually making those throws in superlative fashion?

I have a lot of respect for Mayock, but I still trust my eyes more than anyone. And right now my eyes aren't telling me to go: "Wow!"

Anyone else have the same feeling? Disagree? (Buehler?)

I agree with you Jeff. I did see some Vandy games this year and I did think Cutler would be an interesting third round pick. I never said "Wow! This guy is a top five player!" The hype around this guy, based, really, on so little information in the postseason is like nothing ever seen IMO. It's way beyond what happened with Philip Rivers IMO.

 

[Ed Burmila]

Yeah I still don't understand how Cutler gets a pass but Young is somehow a flash in the pan?
I keep hearing Mike Mayock sing Cutler's praises (with others concurring). And I see him describing Cutler on tape (i.e. "Did you see the way that ball zipped to the sideline!") But I don't see the ball zipping to the sideline.

My question (and concern) - Are we falling prey to the power of suggestion? Or is Cutler, in fact, actually making those throws in superlative fashion?

I have a lot of respect for Mayock, but I still trust my eyes more than anyone. And right now my eyes aren't telling me to go: "Wow!"

Anyone else have the same feeling? Disagree? (Buehler?)

Jeff, it is absolutely a hype storm with Cutler. Scouts and pundits can start believing the hype just as easily as fans. Whoever drafts Cutler certainly wouldn't be the first to convince themselves that a guy is a superstar contrary to facts.

I've said the same thing all along - great 3rd round pick. His arm is strong, he's big, and he likes to play. Sounds like McCown. He also lack accuracy, makes decisions very poorly, and doesn't have nearly as strong of an arm as the press have led themselves to believe.

I sincerely pity any team that takes this guy in the top 5, and I pity Cutler as well if that happens. He will get money and expectations that he is not prepared to meet. Never, ever, ever believe the hype when a guy goes from a middling prospect to a gotta-have-it superstar on the basis of workouts. Anyone who watched him lay an egg in the Senior Bowl or play as a senior can't seriously delude themselves into thinking this guy is the 3rd pick in the draft.

And as for Young, I agree with the last statement. If you can't see the talent, I don't know what to tell you. I said the same thing about Suggs a couple years ago. It just comes down to that. If you can't look at a guy like that and say "He has talent" then maybe football isn't your forte.

 

[Southpaw]

First off I am not bashing him. Just stating that it was "rich" that you defend anyone to the teeth if they are U of Miami yet bash VY on a wonderlic score that wasnt even true. So you can put your holier-than-thou crap to rest.

I am glad Frank Gore got through hard times, ask VY where he grew up.. Ninth Ward ghetto in Houston....think he didnt have it tough?

And U of Miami does have higher standards than Texas. In terms of you have to be a 2-time felon before they let you in!

Hard to tell through your pompous attitude. Like I said , stick it. That fake smiley doesn't mean Jack. It wasn't my thread and I didn't rip Vince Young . Just you and your predictable ripping. Have a nice football season. Posting on the Cards site is a chore I will remember to avoid.

 

[Duckjake]

He is a Qb right? His passing stats in 2004 are pefectly pedestrian. 12 Tds, 11 Ints, and only 1800 yards. Not quite glaring stats for a QB. Now if you want to throw in his 1,000 yards rushing and 14 TD's you may have an argument. Problem is VY will not be a MV in any sense of the word. He will have to be more of a passer first in the NFL something I highly doubt he will be able to do. He doesnt take to well to coaching(right from the mouth of Mack Brown) So like I said as a QB( a guy whos primary responsability is to throw the ball) he is a ONE YEAR WONDER!

Shane where did Mack Brown say that Vince Young doesn't take well to coaching? I'd like to see that quote.

Carson Palmer only had one good season at USC. He didn't turn out too bad.

 

[Shane]

Shane where did Mack Brown say that Vince Young doesn't take well to coaching? I'd like to see that quote.

Carson Palmer only had one good season at USC. He didn't turn out too bad.

You wont see a quote in print. He was being interviewed live on Collin Cowherd on ESPN radio this AM. Cowherd kept replaying the soundbite from it because he thought it was very telling. He stated that once they quit coaching him he performed better.

 

[perivolaki]

Thats Not Fair

Thats not fair Shane. I've heard the Mack Brown quote and what he was trying to get across is that sometimes coaches over coach players. In this case hes saying that at some point VY started doing better without coaches trying to fix his throwing motion, telling him not to run, and basically coaching him to not do what he does best.

Sometimes a great player just makes plays. It might not be the way the coach wants it done exactly but it gets done. VY is one of these types of players. Mack Brown found that VY excelled when they stopped trying to fix every little thing about him and he could just concentrate on playing football.

 

[Duckjake]

You wont see a quote in print. He was being interviewed live on Collin Cowherd on ESPN radio this AM. Cowherd kept replaying the soundbite from it because he thought it was very telling. He stated that once they quit coaching him he performed better.

Coaches.

Here's a quote from Brown on FoxSports:

I told Vince when he left that he'll be treated more poorly in the next month or two than ever because he's so high profile.

Secondly, I know for a fact he didn't make 6 on the test because I was told specifically, & I was also told the test was graded wrong when he took it. Anyone reporting he did that poorly is wrong. Point blank. I was told that was the truth, so it's unprofessional & it's really poor for somebody to report a number they don't know is factual and I know is not factual when a young guy has so much riding on it in the future.

Other thing I would like to say about VY is that he just had the highest efficiency rating of any qb in the country. We are very complicated with what we do offensively and he's won 30 games & lost 2. He also would have graduated last fall w/ only three hours to take at UT, where you can't hide an athlete. Vince is very bright. I hate that people had to take a shot like that, that's unfair and untrue.

They must go to the same seminars that the politicians attend. "How to speak out of both sides of your mouth" 1:15 in the Vinyard Room.

 

[Shane]

Thats not fair Shane. I've heard the Mack Brown quote and what he was trying to get across is that sometimes coaches over coach players. In this case hes saying that at some point VY started doing better without coaches trying to fix his throwing motion, telling him not to run, and basically coaching him to not do what he does best.

Sometimes a great player just makes plays. It might not be the way the coach wants it done exactly but it gets done. VY is one of these types of players. Mack Brown found that VY excelled when they stopped trying to fix every little thing about him and he could just concentrate on playing football.

Actually its completey fair. You arent goiing to be able to go out and "just make plays" in the NFL. You can bet you are going to be coached and coached some more. If it is somehting Young dosnt take to well then it is a serious red flag. It was concerning enough for two major sports professionals to call it into question.

 

[Shane]

Coaches.

Here's a quote from Brown on FoxSports:

I told Vince when he left that he'll be treated more poorly in the next month or two than ever because he's so high profile.

Secondly, I know for a fact he didn't make 6 on the test because I was told specifically, & I was also told the test was graded wrong when he took it. Anyone reporting he did that poorly is wrong. Point blank. I was told that was the truth, so it's unprofessional & it's really poor for somebody to report a number they don't know is factual and I know is not factual when a young guy has so much riding on it in the future.

Other thing I would like to say about VY is that he just had the highest efficiency rating of any qb in the country. We are very complicated with what we do offensively and he's won 30 games & lost 2. He also would have graduated last fall w/ only three hours to take at UT, where you can't hide an athlete. Vince is very bright. I hate that people had to take a shot like that, that's unfair and untrue.

They must go to the same seminars that the politicians attend. "How to speak out of both sides of your mouth" 1:15 in the Vinyard Room.

You know coaches and their players. He probably didnt realize how damning his comments on a national radio show could possibly be. Now hes likely back peddaling trying to help his boy out.

 

[kerouac9]

I was with Mack until he said that they run a complicated offense at UT. Um... okay, Mack. I'm sure that Virginia wonders what on earth you're doing when they break film on you guys.

I can see that Young's massively talented, but he's got the same--if not more--question marks around him that Michael Vick does, only he doesn't seem to have the measureables that vaulted Vick from "electrifying collegate player" to #1 pick in the draft: mainly foot speed and arm strength. If Young doesn't run a 4.6 40 or better at UT's Pro Day, I'll bet that he floats down to the Cards at #10.