Rumors SWIRLING in Cleveland Tonight

[NYCCavsFan]

Cavs fan here, just joined the forum to give everyone an update on what's been going on in Cleveland tonight. We've obviously been caught up in the Amare news storm just like everyone else it seems.

This afternoon on one of the Cavaliers forums from a poster named "Wine and Gold" discussed some recent news he's heard regarding Amare. W&G is a VERY well respected poster on the Cavaliers forum as he is connected to the organization and typically has very good information from the inner circles.

Unfortunately since I just joined I can't post any links, but the post to which I'm referring is at RealCavsFans (dot com) titled "Amare Watch '09", specifically post #1 and #830 by W&G.

For those not interested in googling to find the thread I can summarize quickly:
- W&G originally did not think the Cavs had much interest in Amare
- Today W&G received a call from JJ Hickson's representative asking if he had any info on a potential move involving JJ to the Suns
- As he hears it, the Cavs have been in discussions with several teams including the suns on multiple trade scenarios, including a deal for Amare that would likely be Wally Szczerbiak's expiring 12+ MM contract, JJ Hickson and a 1st rounder (all this info is from earlier in the thread posted above)

Tonight W&G provided more info on the deal as it appears the discussions around Amare to the Cavs are heating up
- There is currently no "handshake deal"
- Lebron and Amare have talked and there may be serious interest within the front office to bring the two together on the Cavs
- It's believed that Amare wouldn't want to come to Cleveland for a short term deal and would potentially want to hear from Lebron that it would be a long term gig (this has several implications, including potentially laying the groundwork for Lebron to sign an extension this off season which has been rumored in Cleveland)
- It's by no means a done deal, but it appears to be a very real discussion with interest from both sides

Anyways, just thought I'd pass along what we've heard tonight in Cleveland. If you're interested, I would encourage people to check out the thread. The posts by Wine and Gold are typically a pretty good read. By no means trying to imply that I'm breaking any news here, just filling everyone in PHX in on what some of the respected Cavs forum members are hearing.

Regards,
NYCCavsFan

 

[arwillan]

I posted it over in the other amare thread. I'm part of all the madness on RCF now as well.

 

[JerkFace]

Thanks for the info...... I am always looking for other boards so I can get the other teams perspective......good stuff. I really hope we don't deal Stat to Cleveland though, I just don't like what we would be getting in return. I would much rather move Shaq to Cleveland, but I doubt that is likely.

 

[NYCCavsFan]

I posted it over in the other amare thread. I'm part of all the madness on RCF now as well.

Ah my fault. Guess I haven't checked that thread in a few hours, so I must have missed the update.

 

[DiamondBacks5117]

could MO Williams be involved in the deal for Amare? If so that would be awesome!

 

[Chaplin]

could MO Williams be involved in the deal for Amare? If so that would be awesome!

No. If you go to any of the multitude of trade checkers, there really is no possible trades except JJ Hickson and Wally for Amare. A first round pick is worthless from Cleveland.

 

[DiamondBacks5117]

No. If you go to any of the multitude of trade checkers, there really is no possible trades except JJ Hickson and Wally for Amare. A first round pick is worthless from Cleveland.

O thanks for lettin me know. I dont think thats woth it we can get much more than that for Amare.

 

[Blackification]

There is no denying that the Suns are exploring trade options with Stoudemire. That is particularly true now that the team is finding out how fleeting glory can be as it sits outside the playoff picture in the West and faces economic issues, such as paying luxury tax into 2010. Chicago and Houston are at the forefront of negotiations with the Suns, who would want the expiring contracts of Chicago's Drew Gooden and Houston's Ron Artest included. A Bulls deal could include Tyrus Thomas and Thabo Sefolosha, players they coveted in past drafts.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2009/02/13/20090213spt-allstarsuns.html

rumor is false. the same guy who leaked the j-rich and shaq trade said yesterday that it was just between the bulls and a western conference contender and now azcentral just posted this saying its the rockets. Cleveland deal is dead.

 

[green machine]

Yeah, trading him to Cleveland would be the worst thing ever.

 

[NYCCavsFan]

Thanks for the info...... I am always looking for other boards so I can get the other teams perspective......good stuff. I really hope we don't deal Stat to Cleveland though, I just don't like what we would be getting in return. I would much rather move Shaq to Cleveland, but I doubt that is likely.

That seems to be the prevailing sentiment here from what I've read. Personally I don't think Shaq fits with the Cavs, but you never know. I also think his contract would be pretty tough to swallow (20MM with 2 years left if I remember correctly?). Hickson would also be excluded from any deal not involving Stoudemire is my guess.

In my view Hickson is a solid young PF project. I think his raw talent and upside is a under appreciated by most non-Cleveland fans, but in the same breath I think some Cleveland fans definitely over estimate his value. He's still learning the game and shows flashes, but he's far from a finished product. So it's no secret that a major key to the Cavs proposal is Szczerbiak's expiring contract, so the owner's desire to cut salary will definitely be a key factor if a deal with the Cavs gets done.

 

[AceP]

could MO Williams be involved in the deal for Amare? If so that would be awesome!

I had a look at their roster, found it extremely hard to believe. How could they assemble an offer attractive enough?

1. They got to convince Kerr that JJ Hickson is a better young talent than Tyrus Thomas or Noah or Maxiell or Amir Johnson. Or, more ready to contribute? Come on, this guy has little NBA experience.

2. It is extremely unlikely to be Szczerbiak as expiring contract. Why the hell do we add an old, injury prone, useless SG to our already crowded back court? We can have Rasheed for the same but plays the right position. It might be Varejao + Snow, but still, Sheed >> Varejao.

3. IT IS TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE for them to give up Mo Williams, even for Amare. Mo has been a great running partner with Lebron. That move will destroy their chemistry.

4. Their draft pick is useless.


I'm very curious to see what kind of package it is. Maybe Dalonte West includes, maybe a third team involves? Waiting to see.

 

[NYCCavsFan]

rumor is false. the same guy who leaked the j-rich and shaq trade said yesterday that it was just between the bulls and a western conference contender and now azcentral just posted this saying its the rockets. Cleveland deal is dead.

While I appreciate the article, I'm still sticking with a source inside the Cavs organization saying discussions with Phoenix are ongoing as of this evening. Who is the guy that leaked the richardson and o'neal deals? What is his position within the organization?

All reports I've seen have the Suns asking for expiring contracts and youth/picks. While Artest has a $7.4 MM expiring contract who else would PHX be looking for from Houston?? Just taking a quick look at their roster the only guys I see as possibilities are Aaron Brooks, Luis Scola or Carl Landry. Any idea what the potential deal could be?

Like I said, any deal with Cleveland would be focused mostly around a salary dump, so I think it's hard for anyone but Kerr and Sarver to know how much of a possibility such a deal really is.

 

[NYCCavsFan]

I had a look at their roster, found it extremely hard to believe. How could they assemble an offer attractive enough?

1. They got to convince Kerr that JJ Hickson is a better young talent than Tyrus Thomas or Noah or Maxiell or Amir Johnson. Or, more ready to contribute? Come on, this guy has little NBA experience.

2. It is extremely unlikely to be Szczerbiak as expiring contract. Why the hell do we add an old, injury prone, useless SG to our already crowded back court? We can have Rasheed for the same but plays the right position. It might be Varejao + Snow, but still, Sheed >> Varejao.

3. IT IS TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE for them to give up Mo Williams, even for Amare. Mo has been a great running partner with Lebron. That move will destroy their chemistry.

4. Their draft pick is useless.


I'm very curious to see what kind of package it is. Maybe Dalonte West includes, maybe a third team involves? Waiting to see.

1) As I said before I think you're really selling Hickson short. But obviously that's just a point of opinion. And I would not disagree that currently Thomas is a better player than Hickson. But you're not dealing Stoudemire to get the best possible player at this moment...otherwise you'd just keep Stoudemire.

2) Sure Snow could obviously be included in the deal, but I think you're looking at it the wrong way. The idea with Szczerbiak's expiring is that the Suns would buy him out as soon as the trade went through so they could cut salary from their books this year...at least that's my limited understanding. As you say though, it could be Snow + Varejao, but in that case it's probably something like Snow, Varejao, Gibson and a pick instead of Hickson. Don't think the Cavs will give up their two young bigs for 1 in return.

3) Guarantee Mo Williams hasn't been included in any serious trade discussions. He's probably on the untouchable list.

4) Not sure how the pick is useless. Plenty of star players are drafted late in the 1st round and in the 2nd round. It's definitely not a signifcant piece, but it's a pick none the less.

As far as Delonte West goes I would also guess he's not going to be included. Before his injury the Cavs were rolling along. His defense and 3 pt shooting have been greatly missed. Like you said about Mo, dealing Delonte would be a blow to the team chemistry and I doubt Ferry will go in that direction.

 

[hsandhu]

Tell cleveland fans to keep their garbage trade proposals in the section marked "fantasy"

 

[Blackification]

While I appreciate the article, I'm still sticking with a source inside the Cavs organization saying discussions with Phoenix are ongoing as of this evening. Who is the guy that leaked the richardson and o'neal deals? What is his position within the organization?

All reports I've seen have the Suns asking for expiring contracts and youth/picks. While Artest has a $7.4 MM expiring contract who else would PHX be looking for from Houston?? Just taking a quick look at their roster the only guys I see as possibilities are Aaron Brooks, Luis Scola or Carl Landry. Any idea what the potential deal could be?

Like I said, any deal with Cleveland would be focused mostly around a salary dump, so I think it's hard for anyone but Kerr and Sarver to know how much of a possibility such a deal really is.

He has a friend in the front office. Suns are just using the cleveland thing to get Noah added on to the Bulls deal.

 

[NYCCavsFan]

Tell cleveland fans to keep their garbage trade proposals in the section marked "fantasy"

Well that was constructive...thanks for contributing

 

[NYCCavsFan]

He has a friend in the front office. Suns are just using the cleveland thing to get Noah added on to the Bulls deal.

Interesting. Really they're trying to get Noah added? Do you guys see that as an important piece to the deal? Can't say I've ever been that impressed with his game, though he's obviously still pretty young.

 

[Andrew]

Amare will not go to the Cavs, mark it.

 

[Blackification]

Interesting. Really they're trying to get Noah added? Do you guys see that as an important piece to the deal? Can't say I've ever been that impressed with his game, though he's obviously still pretty young.

Well thats what I think they are doing. Kerr said that the GM of bulls needs to add noah to the deal if he wants to complete it. So this is his best way of tricking him into it or leaving him no choice.

 

[NYCCavsFan]

Well thats what I think they are doing. Kerr said that the GM of bulls needs to add noah to the deal if he wants to complete it. So this is his best way of tricking him into it or leaving him no choice.

Ah I see. To be honest I still think the Bulls offer is the best out there and if a trade does happen it would not surprise me in the least to see it happen with Chicago. Going to be an exciting few days leading up to the deadline.

 

[Blackification]

Ah I see. To be honest I still think the Bulls offer is the best out there and if a trade does happen it would not surprise me in the least to see it happen with Chicago. Going to be an exciting few days leading up to the deadline.

No trades can be made until after the all star game so Presidents day is going to be crazy, just plain crazy.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Cavs fan here, just joined the forum to give everyone an update on what's been going on in Cleveland tonight. We've obviously been caught up in the Amare news storm just like everyone else it seems.

...

Tonight W&G provided more info on the deal as it appears the discussions around Amare to the Cavs are heating up
- There is currently no "handshake deal"
- Lebron and Amare have talked and there may be serious interest within the front office to bring the two together on the Cavs
- It's believed that Amare wouldn't want to come to Cleveland for a short term deal and would potentially want to hear from Lebron that it would be a long term gig (this has several implications, including potentially laying the groundwork for Lebron to sign an extension this off season which has been rumored in Cleveland)
- It's by no means a done deal, but it appears to be a very real discussion with interest from both sides

...

Regards,
NYCCavsFan

So let me summarize.

• There is no official deal and no handshake deal. So, no deal of any sort.
• Two allstars have talked on the phone during the allstar break
• Amare (and every other nba player) would like to be on a team with LeBron, who will be courted by every GM in the nation in 2010 and he still has yet to publicly state where he vows to play
• Two GMs are discussing a deal for a player who has been shopped for the past two weeks, adding Cleveland to a list that includes: Detroit, Portland, Houston, New Jersey, Golden State, Chicago, New York, Oklahoma, Miami, Toronto, Memphis, Sacramento, Atlanta, Washington, and possibly a few others...
• The proposed trade is pretty much the worst one being discussed so far.

I miss anything?

 

[simply_amare]

Oh hell no! Next please....

 

[boisesuns]

So let me summarize.

• There is no official deal and no handshake deal. So, no deal of any sort.
• Two allstars have talked on the phone during the allstar break
• Amare (and every other nba player) would like to be on a team with LeBron, who will be courted by every GM in the nation in 2010 and he still has yet to publicly state where he vows to play
• Two GMs are discussing a deal for a player who has been shopped for the past two weeks, adding Cleveland to a list that includes: Detroit, Portland, Houston, New Jersey, Golden State, Chicago, New York, Oklahoma, Miami, Toronto, Memphis, Sacramento, Atlanta, Washington, and possibly a few others...
• The proposed trade is pretty much the worst one being discussed so far.

I miss anything?

You missed: "A deal is going down SOON!"

 

[NYCCavsFan]

So let me summarize.

• There is no official deal and no handshake deal. So, no deal of any sort.
• Two allstars have talked on the phone during the allstar break
• Amare (and every other nba player) would like to be on a team with LeBron, who will be courted by every GM in the nation in 2010 and he still has yet to publicly state where he vows to play
• Two GMs are discussing a deal for a player who has been shopped for the past two weeks, adding Cleveland to a list that includes: Detroit, Portland, Houston, New Jersey, Golden State, Chicago, New York, Oklahoma, Miami, Toronto, Memphis, Sacramento, Atlanta, Washington, and possibly a few others...
• The proposed trade is pretty much the worst one being discussed so far.

I miss anything?

Yeah I guess you missed the fact that the list of list of teams interested in a deal seem to have been pruned back to 3. Chicago, Cleveland and it sounds like now Houston are the only teams still discussing deals. We've been over the Chicago offer, so I figured the Suns fans might be interested in hearing what the Cavs offer is that's being discussed and the status of that offer.

Like I said, I'm not trying to claim that I'm breaking any news, so I'm not sure why all the hostility. Sure, you don't like the Cavs offer, but many of you seem to significantly over value Stoudemire (the discussion of the memphis trade including Gay and Connolly was especially hilarious). Stoudemire is a great player, don't get me wrong. It's the uncertainty surrounding his contract and his future plans, as well as the history of knee injuries, that make him a bit more of a gamble (not to mention Sarver's desire to shed salary knocking down his value as well).