Rush End - Of the Every Down Variety

[SECTION 11]

Why is everyone so intent on giving up on KVB?

It's amazing that a guy like Patrick Kerney from Atlanta can get 2.5, 2.5 sacks his first two years, then break out for 10 and 12 the next two, and STILL play every down against the run, but KVB gets no slack because he didn't go J Peppers on the league.

I think we're making a big mistake if we don't project out what kind of players we have and what kind of development they're going to show [Shipp, KVB (?)] and instead go for a quick-fix, 'sexy' pick.

 

[CardinalChris]

The knock has always been closing speed for KVB. He just can't quite get there to make the sacks, but creates a lot of hurries. It would be wrong to "Hope" he produces 12 sacks next year. It is the curse of the Cardinal Fans to think we have the answer on our roster when a superior player is around in the draft. It is not haste to draft Suggs IMO. At #6 I think he'd be the best player available at our biggest need.

I love KVB, but don't think he'll be a 10 sack guy ever. I would like to see him play the left ide. I think he could turn into a very good player. But one who gets 10 sacks? I'd be surprised.

Besides, Kerney was switching from LB in college to DE in the NFL. Big jump.

 

[BW52]

KVB should be recovered from his knee injury and hopefully will step up and we can really see the type of player he can be.I like his hustle and think he will be a solid 6 to 8 sack man a year.Not a star but a good solid Pro.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Why is everyone so intent on giving up on KVB?

It's amazing that a guy like Patrick Kerney from Atlanta can get 2.5, 2.5 sacks his first two years, then break out for 10 and 12 the next two, and STILL play every down against the run, but KVB gets no slack because he didn't go J Peppers on the league.

I think we're making a big mistake if we don't project out what kind of players we have and what kind of development they're going to show [Shipp, KVB (?)] and instead go for a quick-fix, 'sexy' pick.

Kearney was an undersized speed-rusher in college like Suggs or someone in that mold.

KVB is just never going to be that kind of player. 8 sacks a year, maybe. Dominant pass rusher, never.

But he'll be better against the run than a guy like Kearney ever will.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by CardinalChris
Kerney was switching from LB in college to DE in the NFL. Big jump.

???

 

[JeffGollin]

Why is everyone so intent on giving up on KVB?
It's not a matter of giving up on him. It's a matter of not being able to assume he's going to get the job done rushing the passer - because he hasn't been effective doing that to date.

VDB remains a questionmark as a pass rusher. And you never want to go into the season with a pile of questionmarks. You'd prefer to know where your pass rush is coming from.

So in the absence of rock solid knowledge, the smart thing to do is go out and get someone you know can rush the passer. The worse thing that can happen then is that you have 2 guys who can rush the passer.

The worst thing that can happen if we "hope" VDB will become an effective pass rusher is that we'll wind up with no pass rusher still again.

 

[SECTION 11]

Jeff,

Based on that thinking, we should draft Leftwich.

 

[D Pasch]

If I may chime in with my two cents. It usually takes about a year and a half to really bounce back from a serious knee injury, so I don't think we saw Kyle at his best last year, even though he did have a sack in three straight games. He's having a great off-season physically, and recently had a spirtual break through that I think will help him in every aspect. I think you will continue to see that motor, but a greater sense of purpose and focus with that motor. I don't think you'll see him overpursue as much as he did last year. I also know he played through rib pains last season. I don't know whether Kyle will be a 10 sack guy, but I think he can be a very productive DE in this league.

Dave Pasch

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by D Pasch
If I may chime in with my two cents. It usually takes about a year and a half to really bounce back from a serious knee injury, so I don't think we saw Kyle at his best last year, even though he did have a sack in three straight games. He's having a great off-season physically, and recently had a spirtual break through that I think will help him in every aspect. I think you will continue to see that motor, but a greater sense of purpose and focus with that motor. I don't think you'll see him overpursue as much as he did last year. I also know he played through rib pains last season. I don't know whether Kyle will be a 10 sack guy, but I think he can be a very productive DE in this league.

Dave Pasch

Is this THE Dave Pasch? Voice of the Cardinals?

 

[RedStorm]

KVB would be better suited on the left side. Our pass (speed) rusher needs to come from the right.

I think KVB is a very good player but not a sack master. However, with his attitude and hustle he is exactly what this team needs.

 

[D Pasch]

Indeed. I have been a busy man the past few months, and haven't checked in with the great fans that visit this messageboard. I read many of your comments, and will certainly get involved in the discussions from time to time. I think it's good for someone in my position to be mindful of what the fans are talking about. If you have questions, feel free to ask, and I will answer to the best of my ability.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by D Pasch
If you have questions, feel free to ask

What is a realistic time table for this organization to win the SuperBowl, based on what they have now?

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
What is a realistic time table for this organization to win the SuperBowl, based on what they have now?

Jeezzz SECTION11...don't scare him away.....Why don't you start with "hows the weather?" or something.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by RedStorm
Jeezzz SECTION11...don't scare him away.....Why don't you start with "hows the weather?" or something.

You're right, RedStorm...

*ahem*



"How IS the weather?"




So, Dave, who are the Cardinals drafting?

 

[D Pasch]

That's a difficult question to answer, especially when you have turnover at one of the main positions in the front office. I do know that Rod Graves is a very well respected football guy, and is building this team for the here and now, but is also being mindful of the future. Graves is a wizard with the cap, and I think we're seeing the fruits of that labor already. Hey, they tried like heck to get both Holliday and Colvin, so they want to win right now. Ask me that question when camp starts, and the roster is set, and I might have a better answer. I still think there are moves to be made, plus obviously the draft, before camp starts.

Dave Pasch

 

[AZCB34]

Dave, what are your feeling on the WR corp right now...specifically the young trio of WRs?

The feeling of some is that going in with Gilmore, Kasper and McAddley would be disastrous, while others don't mind that idea although I think we are all unanimous in feeling the Cards must address WR in draft and after June 1.

Also, what are you feelings on Frank Sanders resigning with the team?

I remember hearing Frank said he wasn't going to play in a cold weather city so it surprises me Baltimore is still in the hunt.

Thanks

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by D Pasch
That's a difficult question to answer, especially when you have turnover at one of the main positions in the front office. I do know that Rod Graves is a very well respected football guy, and is building this team for the here and now, but is also being mindful of the future. Graves is a wizard with the cap, and I think we're seeing the fruits of that labor already. Hey, they tried like heck to get both Holliday and Colvin, so they want to win right now. Ask me that question when camp starts, and the roster is set, and I might have a better answer. I still think there are moves to be made, plus obviously the draft, before camp starts.

Dave Pasch

I will agree with you that they did offer very competitive offers to Colvin and Holliday.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Dave, what are your feeling on the WR corp right now...specifically the young trio of WRs?

The feeling of some is that going in with Gilmore, Kasper and McAddley would be disastrous, while others don't mind that idea although I think we are all unanimous in feeling the Cards must address WR in draft and after June 1.

Also, what are you feelings on Frank Sanders resigning with the team?

I remember hearing Frank said he wasn't going to play in a cold weather city so it surprises me Baltimore is still in the hunt.

Thanks

Baltimore is colder than AZ but not as cold as say Detroit, Minn or Buffalo. My Aunt and Uncle live in Balt and say most of the time they get rain in the winter. Some snow but not much.

 

[hef]

I don't think anyone is giving up on kvb ,he has the skills to penatrate and cuase the qb to hurry plus he is decent against the run but if we don't get some help up front ie suggs to take the preasure off kvb and present a threat opositte of him we might as well put kvb on our long list of under acheivers.

 

[JeffGollin]

Based on that thinking, we should draft Leftwich.
I assume you're joking (unless you think Leftwich can rush the passer).

My point is that you draft Suggs because you at least know he can rush the passer (because we've all seen it) rather than hoping that VDB will somehow "latch onto the magic."

 

[D Pasch]

The ball is in Frank's court right now. I do think the Cardinals will sign a veteran receiver before camp, and don't forget about the June 1 cuts. There will probably be some receivers available. The Cardinals do like the three receivers you mentioned, and while I definitely think they need a vet, I'm high on the young guys, especially McAddley. If there is no proven WR on the roster, teams will stack the box and force the Cardinals to win through the air.

Dave Pasch

 

[kerouac9]

Section 11, I, for one, am not "hating on" KVB, but I think he's massively overrated by the fans in AZ. By the end of the 2002 season, I saw more KVB jerseys than anyone else except maybe DB, but probably about equal to Plummer. There's no way he merits that kind of love from the fans, and, to be quite honest with you, I attribute some of that, whether right or wrong, to the fact that he's white, and from Nebraska.

I think that KVB is a good player, and a cornerstone of our young defense, but I don't think he's an elite player. I think that he's a quality starter, but ought not to be depended upon as our primary pass rusher. I can't remember all of the times I saw him being occupied by a single blocker, and not putting pressure on the QB. Perhaps that was because of the injury, perhaps not.

I think that the best pass rush can be created with KVB in the lineup on 3rd down. I think that the best pass rush comes with a lineup that should look like this in 2003:

KVB Bryant Roberton D. Johnson/3-4 round speed rusher

I think that you get a really nice "two-pronged" primary rush from the speed end on the right (from the QBs perspective) and a rush from Bryant in the middle. They're going to have to double someone, and I think single coverage goes to the weakest link in this lineup: KVB. All he has to do is fight though one tackle, and he's got a shot on the QB (scrambling/floating left because of the speed demon coming from the right). That should create sack opportunities for KVB.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Based on that thinking, we should draft Leftwich.
I assume you're joking (unless you think Leftwich can rush the passer).

My point is that you draft Suggs because you at least know he can rush the passer (because we've all seen it) rather than hoping that VDB will somehow "latch onto the magic."

Actually I was serious.

Suggs is no more of a lock than Leftwich. As far as measurables go, he could be considered LESS of a lock, but here me out here...
When you say that at best we'd end up with two quality pass rushers, you could also then extend that argument to say that in the case of Leftwich, we could at best have two quality quarterbacks in McCown and Leftwich.
Quality quarterbacks are of undeniably more value in terms of a teams chance to win and in terms of the future, opportunities to make trades (ala Green Bay).

 

[BACH]

Originally posted by RedStorm
KVB would be better suited on the left side. Our pass (speed) rusher needs to come from the right.

I think KVB is a very good player but not a sack master. However, with his attitude and hustle he is exactly what this team needs.

I couldn't agree more. If a stud D-lineman is added in the first (either Suggs on RDE or Robertson/Kennedy at DT) along with Bryant's expected improvement, the overall production of the line would increase a lot, because that also means KVB gets more room to produce. With more help from the others on the line, KVB should be a solid runstuffer with 5-10 sacks a year.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I can't remember all of the times I saw him being occupied by a single blocker, and not putting pressure on the QB.

That's why I have visions of Suggs getting blown up by FB's, TE's, LT's if they even consider putting him on the line.



As far as KVB goes, I am absolutely a Husker homer.

Although I thought Scott Frost was more effective running the option, Tommie Frazier is by far my favorite QB of all time.