Safety

[dreamcastrocks]

When Darnell Dockett hit Alexander in the end zone was anyone else surprised that there wasn't even a challenge? If safeties are the same as touchdowns (and I believe that they are), if any part of the football is on the goalline it should be a safety. Even on a challenge, I thought that there was enough evidence to call a safety.

Anyone else surpised that a safety was not even challenged?

 

[PortlandCardFan]

SA had the whole ball out of the end-zone.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Denny does a bad enough job wasting his challenges... I swear I don't think I have ever seen him get one right. This would have just been another wasted challenge and lost Time Out... It wasn't even close...

 

[Pariah]

SA got out--great effort on his part.

 

[conraddobler]

SA got out--great effort on his part.

He had leverage on Dockett, Darnell kind of rolled onto him but SA just basically out muscled him.

 

[General Chaos]

Speaking of Dockett. Does anyone know if he is a UFA after this year?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I thought he was out of the end zone but barely. I kept watching his knees and they weren't down before he got out. The funny thing is i think refs give the benefit of the doubt to the defense when TD's are ruled on. They almost always spot them short but on safeties they give the benefit to the offense and mark the ball out of the end zone. I guess they want to be sure before allowing points on the board either way.

 

[seesred]

It wasn't a safety. But, DD had one of his best as a Cardinal.

GB R
40

 

[mesacardsfan]

It was super close should have at least taken a look at it! But again just another Bad decision by Denny. That play alone could have turned some heavy momentum in our favor. Surprised we did not even take a look at it.

 

[D-Dogg]

If i am not mistaken, on safeties it is the opposite of TDs...the forward part of the stripe is used, so that if the tip of the ball crosses the line, then it is out of the endzone...the whole ball doesn't need to be in. On tds, if the tip of the ball is on the line, it's a TD. Determined by which direction you are going.

 

[SeaChicken]

He had leverage on Dockett, Darnell kind of rolled onto him but SA just basically out muscled him.

I thought that was a complete miracle. Still can't believe he managed to get out of the end zone.

 

[D-Dogg]

It was super close should have at least taken a look at it! But again just another Bad decision by Denny. That play alone could have turned some heavy momentum in our favor. Surprised we did not even take a look at it.

I thought the same until I saw the replay...he clearly got out of the EZ...and they could see that from the booth. He would have been an idiot to challenge it, and given more reason for people to bash him. He made enough mistakes, why can't we be happy he didn't make this one too? They never should have challenged the Bergen fumble either...that was also clear on replay which the booth has up top too.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Man, what a different game it would have been if we had gotten the 2nd of the 2 missed FGs (Spike the damn ball!!!!) and had we gotten that safety. Yes, the Cards dodged a ton of bullets and the game was A LOT closer than it should have been, but if we were only down 21-15 on that last drive, maybe the players and coaches would have done their jobs as if there were at least a semblance of hope left....

 

[General Chaos]

I thought the same until I saw the replay...he clearly got out of the EZ...and they could see that from the booth. He would have been an idiot to challenge it, and given more reason for people to bash him. He made enough mistakes, why can't we be happy he didn't make this one too? They never should have challenged the Bergen fumble either...that was also clear on replay which the booth has up top too.

Often i think challenges aren't just for trying to overturn the play. Its kind of like when a baseball manager argues with the ump to appease his player. Its just showing your players that you are behind them.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

If i am not mistaken, on safeties it is the opposite of TDs...the forward part of the stripe is used, so that if the tip of the ball crosses the line, then it is out of the endzone...the whole ball doesn't need to be in. On tds, if the tip of the ball is on the line, it's a TD. Determined by which direction you are going.

If that is the case, then it was not a safety, but begs a different question.

Why do they not use the same logic in determining TD's and safeties? Why is any part of the ball on the line good for TDs, but not good enough for safeties?

 

[Pariah]

If that is the case, then it was not a safety, but begs a different question.

Why do they not use the same logic in determining TD's and safeties? Why is any part of the ball on the line good for TDs, but not good enough for safeties?

Because the start of the endzone is the field side of the stripe. That means the endzone side of the stripe is already in the endzone and you have to get it past the field side to get out of it.

 

[abomb]

Because the start of the endzone is the field side of the stripe. That means the endzone side of the stripe is already in the endzone and you have to get it past the field side to get out of it.

Damn. What a good answer.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I've got to give props to Dockett for having a pretty good game Safety or no Safety.

As for the safety, if it wasn't a safety then it was missed by less than an inch.

 

[D-Dogg]

Because the start of the endzone is the field side of the stripe. That means the endzone side of the stripe is already in the endzone and you have to get it past the field side to get out of it.

Thanks for explaining it better.

The stripe *is* part of the endzone...touch it and you are in for a TD, pass it and you are out to escape a safety. If you think of the stripe as part of the endzone, and not a line you have to "cross", it makes more sense.

 

[D-Dogg]

Often i think challenges aren't just for trying to overturn the play. Its kind of like when a baseball manager argues with the ump to appease his player. Its just showing your players that you are behind them.

Yeah, I agree with that. I don't like that approach though, because timeouts are far too valuable especially when you are playing from behind.

 

[D-Dogg]

If that is the case, then it was not a safety, but begs a different question.

Why do they not use the same logic in determining TD's and safeties? Why is any part of the ball on the line good for TDs, but not good enough for safeties?

I would say there also that it is the spot which is based off of the tip of the ball, not the back of the ball. It's a first down if the tip of the ball is past the down marker. Thus, if the tip of the ball is outside of the endzone, the ball is technically down on the 1 inch line, even if the rest of the ball is in the endzone. The tip of the ball is the measure.

Which coincides with the TD rule as well where just the tip hits the line and it's a score.

So basically, for TDs and Safeties its all about the tip of the ball being in the endzone or out of the endzone, respectively.

 

[DKCards]

I would say there also that it is the spot which is based off of the tip of the ball, not the back of the ball. It's a first down if the tip of the ball is past the down marker. Thus, if the tip of the ball is outside of the endzone, the ball is technically down on the 1 inch line, even if the rest of the ball is in the endzone. The tip of the ball is the measure.

Which coincides with the TD rule as well where just the tip hits the line and it's a score.

So basically, for TDs and Safeties its all about the tip of the ball being in the endzone or out of the endzone, respectively.

Just to clarify then... Were do they spot the ball if the point just crosses the line. Do they move up the spot 10 inches or is part of the ball in the end zone for the next snap?

 

[D-Dogg]

I believe that part of the ball is in the endzone, while the tip is outside of it. That's if it were spotted correctly.

 

[D-Dogg]

I've been looking through the NFL rules and this isn't specifically addressed either. Some leagues (USA football) require the whole ball to be out of the EZ to be "escaped". The NFL says the foremost point of the ball is used for measurement purposes.

I can't find anywhere in the rules where it addresses if the ball is spotted with some of it in the EZ, some out.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I thought at least part of the ball should have been spotted on the line for the endzone, resulting in a safety, (if that was the rule)

Thanks for looking ddogg, curious to know what you find out.