Saints apparently had bounties out on opposing players

Darkside

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I hope the league lays down some wood on the Saints to the fullest extent possible. It's not like we're just talking nickels and dimes here either--1,000 here or 2,000 there--on NFL radio on Sirius they were just saying one player (I can't for the life of me remember who) pitched in $10,000 for the take-out on Favre.

Plus, everyone looks at the last shot Kurt took in our game in 09 and Warner on NFL network just said it was a clean hit, but that's not the issue--in my opinion they were head-hunting him all-game long. The last hit isn't the issue at all, it's the combined devastation they put on him throughout, especially the questionable hits to the head and questionable late hits, they all add up. That not only lost us that playoff game and knocked us out of the playoffs, but may have contributed to his decision to retire (we'll never know for sure).

I'm not one who regularly says to make the game less violent (I think some of the defenseless player rules are suspect); I like the old-time games and the way they played. I also think this has been going on a long long time, but to incentivize aggressive plays (forced fumbles, interceptions, etc) is one thing, while incentivizing injuries is altogether different. All it does is wipe out talent for the sake of one team or individual.

And even if nobody cares about injuries or illegal play, it does circumvent the salary cap in a major way, the way this was done. Greg Williams contributed to these "injury" pools. That basically says the teams (and coaches) with more money will dominate, something the salary cap was designed to mitigate, to some extent. The league is going to come down hard on the Saints--they can't preach protecting players and concussions and such and then look the other way on this. It's not just the injury part of it--the salary cap violations cheapen the game, all of it lessens the spirit of competition those rules were put in place to protect.
 

Buckybird

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Here's what Im thinking will happen:

Aints-fined $1mil plus next years 1st rd
Payton-$100,000 plus 1 games supension
Williams-$100,00 plus a 2 games supsension
 

Darkside

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Here's what Im thinking will happen:

Aints-fined $1mil plus next years 1st rd
Payton-$100,000 plus 1 games supension
Williams-$100,00 plus a 2 games supsension

You may be right, and I certainly wouldn't speculate differently, but it's not enough. They won the SB that year so the money in fines is paltry. There's no amount of fines to make up for a retired KW, a Saints SB victory, and a Favre going out (as well as countless others). There's no price on that. The suspensions are also paltry. I think they should take away more draft picks as well as the other things you mentioned.

A lot of my incentive is based on emotion. I've said all along that we had a great run in 09, beating a great GB team in a great playoff game, and further saying that the fact that we lost to the Saints, the SB champs, isn't anything to be ashamed of. But now I'm just pissed. I tried, I believe, like a lot of other fans, to be cool about the late hits and the headshots and the cheapshots, and just say that's how things roll sometimes, but now I don't know anymore.

Now it just irritates me, to know that it was so structured for them and so organized to take out our best player with incentives to hurt the dude. Maybe had Warner played the next year it wouldn't bother me, but I always felt deep down that Saints game took his will away, not because of the beating, but because maybe deep down he thought he was missing his blocks, his step-ups in the pocket, maybe it made him feel his age. Now I don't know if that's a fair analysis, and I would bet that deep down he doesn't know either. It pisses me off.
 
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Buckybird

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You may be right, and I certainly wouldn't speculate differently, but it's not enough. They won the SB that year so the money in fines is paltry. There's no amount of fines to make up for a retired KW, a Saints SB victory, and a Favre going out (as well as countless others). There's no price on that. The suspensions are also paltry. I think they should take away more draft picks as well as the other things you mentioned.

I totally agree, but I don't think it will be much more because the HC is elite & held in high regard leaguewide, including NFL offices. If its anything less than the above, the NFL plays favorites.

Personally, I'm hoping they are denied extending Brees, making him a FA! :DLol
 

az jam

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Its now coming out that Greg Williams has done this with the Titans, Redskins and Saints. The Rams should fire him and the league should ban him permanently.
 

Darkside

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I totally agree, but I don't think it will be much more because the HC is elite & held in high regard leaguewide, including NFL offices. If its anything less than the above, the NFL plays favorites.

Personally, I'm hoping they are denied extending Brees, making him a FA! :DLol

LOL! I thought about Brees, and you have to wonder man, he was a leading advocate for the NFLPA, he helped with the suit and helped bring football to the table. Love to know how he would feel if dudes were trying to hurt him after he had his own injury to deal with in SD before going to NO.

All these QB's, great ones like Brees and KW, have targets on them, but there's a huge difference between focusing on one and trying to hurt one. The $$ in the "pool" is irrelevant almost, doesn't matter how much it is, what it does is get players focused on that player all week, every day, 24 hours a day, trying to hurt him. A mean **** is gonna be mean, no amount of money is going to change that, but what it does is take a normal dude and turn him in to a mean dude. Some dude making the league minimum, for him, that pool is a lot of money. Some guy that never tackles, suddenly he's looking at knees to hit. That's what it does.
 

BillsCarnage

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The idiot Darren Sharper still trying act innocent saying their was no such thing. Sorry, that ship sailed a long time ago. When you have over 18,000 documents and 50,000 pages of evidence you got a realise you got caught.

Not to mention they were already asked once to stop the bounty and kept going.
 

WildBB

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Plus, everyone looks at the last shot Kurt took in our game in 09 and Warner on NFL network just said it was a clean hit, but that's not the issue--in my opinion they were head-hunting him all-game long. The last hit isn't the issue at all, it's the combined devastation they put on him throughout, especially the questionable hits to the head and questionable late hits, they all add up. That not only lost us that playoff game and knocked us out of the playoffs, but may have contributed to his decision to retire (we'll never know for sure).

I'm not one who regularly says to make the game less violent (I think some of the defenseless player rules are suspect); I like the old-time games and the way they played. I also think this has been going on a long long time, but to incentivize aggressive plays (forced fumbles, interceptions, etc) is one thing, while incentivizing injuries is altogether different. All it does is wipe out talent for the sake of one team or individual.

This eats at my craw. I hope coaches get fired or at least suspended.

We could have gone to another SB that yr. , instead now it's a tainted trophy that NO owns.

I think it helped make KW's decision to retire an easy one. :mad:
 

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Tony Dungy just traced the beginning of Manning's neck injury back to a game against the Skins back in '06 when Williams was DC. I wonder how many people got seriously hurt over the years under Williams' coaching.
 

BillsCarnage

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Here's what Im thinking will happen:

Aints-fined $1mil plus next years 1st rd
Payton-$100,000 plus 1 games supension
Williams-$100,00 plus a 2 games supsension

Not sure if Payton will get much as it sounds like it may have been hidden from him.

As for Williams, quite frankly, there are reports that this is an obvious trend in his coaching style. And this little comment from his message:
"It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it."
http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/03/former_new_orleans_saints_defe_10.html

I'd be tempted to ban him from the game if I were commish, but i vote for a 1yr suspension.

Just my .02
 

Darkside

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This eats at my craw. I hope coaches get fired or at least suspended.

We could have gone to another SB that yr. , instead now it's a tainted trophy that NO owns.

I think it helped make KW's decision to retire an easy one. :mad:

I totally agree with this. We had a good/great team that year, we beat a great GB team the prior round in the playoffs, and could have contended for a SB, easily.

And I don't even think it was the beating KW took, because KW was a stud who could take a beating, I think it was the combined destruction he took that game, and he started to wonder, in his own head, if he'd lost a step, missed some blocking reads, etc. He had to wonder why he was getting pummeled so much.

My own opinion is that it was psychological and he just couldn't figure out why he was missing so much on the field and getting destroyed. It was just the combined hits to the head, some late, some not (only one called a flag), late hits to the knees, over and over, and by the time he got put out of the game he was so fuzzy he honestly thought he was just too old.

Now we know that was the Saints plan all along, regardless of consequences, to get him out of that game illegally. And same thing with Favre, whom they also destroyed and removed from the game. Probably a lot of others also.

Without that game against the Saints I don't think KW retires.
 

CtCardinals78

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My guess:

Saints fined $5 million loss of next years 1st and this years 2nd
Payton suspended 4 games fined at least $1 million (BELICHEAT was fined $500,000)
Williams fined at least a million with a life ban
Numerous players (at least 5) suspended 2-4 games

Worst of all for the Saints I do not see Brees re-signing there now. That organization is going to be a mess for a while.
 

BillsCarnage

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My guess:

Saints fined $5 million loss of next years 1st and this years 2nd
Payton suspended 4 games fined at least $1 million (BELICHEAT was fined $500,000)
Williams fined at least a million with a life ban
Numerous players (at least 5) suspended 2-4 games

Worst of all for the Saints I do not see Brees re-signing there now. That organization is going to be a mess for a while.

Quite frankly they deserve it after this. Though I'd feel bad for Benson since he requested it be stopped once and was ignored.
 

Buckybird

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Worst of all for the Saints I do not see Brees re-signing there now. That organization is going to be a mess for a while.

He isn't going anywhere! I doubt he will want to leave the HC who believed in him & the architect of 1 of the best offenses in NFL history. He will be franchised for at least a season...but I would give up EVERY pick we have the next 2 yrs if the Aints want to trade him;)
 

Buckybird

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My guess:

Saints fined $5 million loss of next years 1st and this years 2nd
Payton suspended 4 games fined at least $1 million (BELICHEAT was fined $500,000)
Williams fined at least a million with a life ban
Numerous players (at least 5) suspended 2-4 games

Worst of all for the Saints I do not see Brees re-signing there now. That organization is going to be a mess for a while.

CT, we can only hope the penalties are that severe.
 

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If Williams coaches again I would be shocked, if he is the idiot that set this up, he needs to be gone forever. Any coach with knowledge of this needs a one year ban. The Saints as a frachise shouldn't be in the first 2 rounds of the draft for the next 2 years. Football is a game that you have to ask yourself when will you be hurt, not if, there is no need for any of this.
 

CtCardinals78

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He isn't going anywhere! I doubt he will want to leave the HC who believed in him & the architect of 1 of the best offenses in NFL history. He will be franchised for at least a season...but I would give up EVERY pick we have the next 2 yrs if the Aints want to trade him;)

I don't know Bucky. The Saints are a mess and have a lot of issues with this, and that whole Vicodin thing last year which I'm still not sure is resolved. Last week I would have said its 100% Brees is back with NO next season. Not so sure it's 100% now. This would have to be the second time in six years Brees will have to rebuild the Saints. In the end though I think you're right in that Brees is back in NO, but teams are going to be coming after him a lot more now and ATL was already pissed about Brees setting that record against them. They will be extra motivated now.
 

Buckybird

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I don't know Bucky. The Saints are a mess and have a lot of issues with this, and that whole Vicodin thing last year which I'm still not sure is resolved. Last week I would have said its 100% Brees is back with NO next season. Not so sure it's 100% now. This would have to be the second time in six years Brees will have to rebuild the Saints. In the end though I think you're right in that Brees is back in NO, but teams are going to be coming after him a lot more now and ATL was already pissed about Brees setting that record against them. They will be extra motivated now.

Looks like they're gonna lose somebody or some of that offensive talent this year, but IMO they're still a legit title threat as long as Payton & Brees are there which I think is quite awhile. As solid as the Falcs are they don't seem to be in the Aints class as of now...but we'll see.
 

LoyaltyisaCurse

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I THIK we are all over estimating the severity of the pealties...my guess:

1 mllion fine for saints org,
2 games for Payton
4 games for Williams.
 

sportznutt

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My thoughts exactly when I saw this story.

The hit on Warner in the PO game seemed like it was a tad more aggressive than needed to be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC1T1tAbA4s

Not to mention Farves thighs after the following PO game.
http://backseatfan.com/2010/02/brett-favre-injury-pictures/

Now that Williams is w/ th Rams it'll be interesting to see if the NFL keeps an eye on him.

Yeah, just the way the Saints' player seemed to watch Warner go down and stay down afterwards.......all for a bit of cash.
 

sportznutt

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I wonder if that ref feels anything differently now.
 

sportznutt

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ESPN's John Clayton speculates that the Saints will face a hefty fine as well as the loss of "multiple draft choices" as league-imposed punishment for the 2009-2011 bounty scandal.

Perhaps the most damning evidence against the Saints is that GM Mickey Loomis and coach Sean Payton knew about Gregg Williams' bounty system, and did nothing to prevent it. "I think it's gonna be a penalty that's gonna exceed SpyGate," Clayton said on SportsCenter. "I think you're probably gonna see the organization fined significantly, maybe close to $1 million. I think you're gonna see multiple draft choices taken away. ... Maybe a first-round pick next year and some other pick this year."

rotoworld
 

LoyaltyisaCurse

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Yeah, just the way the Saints' player seemed to watch Warner go down and stay down afterwards.......all for a bit of cash.

THAT HIT STILL MAKES ME SO FRAKING ANGRY! HOW IN THE WORLD IS THAT NOT AN EJECTABLE HIT! I DONT CARE WHAT WARNER SAYS, IT WAS NOT A LEGAL HIT AND IM SURE IT CONVINCED HIM TO RETIRE.
 

Darkside

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rotoworld

Still don't think that's enough, I don't know what would be, you're talking about 2 HOF'ers in KW and Favre being destroyed and retiring because of the damage (granted Favre played another year, but was never the same). I don't see how that gets made up for. Our window of greatness depended on KW QB'ing our team, and so did Favre's. You take them out, and those teams are nothing, and it's open for the Saint's after that in the division. It sucks.
 
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