Same old Cards, playing our way out of elite prospects :(

[bg7brd]

Any shot we had at Luck went out the window with Detroit's win. Time to draft Bowers or Quinn.

 

[Osbern61]

Is there really any pleasing people? We win people are pissed because you want the top pick, we lose you are pissed because Whiz is a moron. I never want a top pick since it hampers teams more than it really helps and it is nice to see the team have a ton of fight in them. Just stop with all this we want to lose pessimistic talk.

I'm just glad to get out of work and hear we won the game.

 

[slanidrac16]

The only team getting Luck is the one drafting #1, either because they had the worst record or they traded up to the #1 slot. If Luck comes out I'm guessing he will be the first pick.

 

[conraddobler]

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/12/12/2515011/four-tiger-underclassmen-to-enter.html

Fresh off the presses, Gabbert is interested in possibly comming out.

After Luck IMO he's the best of the rest by a mile, in terms of the NFL.

I would not be unhappy if we landed him and a decent FA veteran to go with Skelton, nope that would be awesome IMO.

 

[Rats]

Is there really any pleasing people? We win people are pissed because you want the top pick, we lose you are pissed because Whiz is a moron. I never want a top pick since it hampers teams more than it really helps and it is nice to see the team have a ton of fight in them. Just stop with all this we want to lose pessimistic talk.

I want to win games. I want to win the division next season. So I want Whis to pull his head out and get us coaches and players that can accomplish that. This happens and it is all good. Could of and should have happened this season.

 

[SuperSpck]

Bad teams get "elite" prospects.
Doesn't work out too often.
Good teams get the right ones.

This is where the Cards need more practice.

 

[Lefty]

I can't believe this thread. Who would be unhappy that the Cards won? I could never see myself rooting against my team in any sport.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Like MadJack's banner in the stadium said:

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Mulli]

Holy moly, the Broncos are so bad, the Cards franchise would have to folded up for good if they had lost.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Bad teams get "elite" prospects.
Doesn't work out too often.
Good teams get the right ones.

This is where the Cards need more practice.

The Cards haven't had a #1 overall pick in over 50 years. To get that elite prospect, you almost have to suck. Look to a team that won 1 game last year after drafting the best QB in the draft and he has them 2 wins away from the division title. There are countless other examples but this one should stick out the most for people.

 

[Mulli]

The Cards haven't had a #1 overall pick in over 50 years. To get that elite prospect, you almost have to suck. Look to a team that won 1 game last year after drafting the best QB in the draft and he has them 2 wins away from the division title. There are countless other examples but this one should stick out the most for people.

The Cards won the first game of the year, should they have "lost out" from there to make sure they got an elite pick?

 

[Shzm13]

Win a couple meaningless games and end up with Levi Brown, or call it a year and try again the following season with Joe Thomas.

Ill gladly eat crow if the niners/stl/sea lose out and sea/stl tie in the finale, but I don't see that happening.

 

[bg7brd]

Three's a big difference between elite prospects and elite players.

 

[Shzm13]

The Cards won the first game of the year, should they have "lost out" from there to make sure they got an elite pick?

We weren't relying on our division "losing out" and the top two teams tying in the final game then. We also had everything to play for.

Yes, I'm aware that there is a difference between elite prospects and elite players. You run the same risk of the players not panning out regardless of the position in the draft, but securing a top spot gives a team the ability to choose the best players available. The higher the draft picks, the more value they have when another team is trying to trade up for a player.

 

[Mulli]

We weren't relying on our division "losing out" and the top two teams tying in the final game then. We also had everything to play for.

Yes, I'm aware that there is a difference between elite prospects and elite players. You run the same risk of the players not panning out regardless of the position in the draft, but securing a top spot gives a team the ability to choose the best players available. The higher the draft picks, the more value they have when another team is trying to trade up for a player.

So, does the coaching staff tell the team to lose in the pre-game speech?

And do you bother watching the games if you hope the team loses out?

I was with the lose out crowd, maybe before a lot of people, but it makes watching the games seem like I want the other team to win. that made it impossible for me to want the cards to lose.

 

[kerouac9]

I thought this thread was sarcastic. :

You never root for losses. Defeats the purposes of athletics. It is never fun watching your team lose a game despite how the season has gone.

Regardless of where you draft, a good team will find a good player. We are drafting in the top 10. Im sure we'll stumble upon a great prospect

Yes. If we get, say, the 6th overall pick, we can "stumble" upon a great prospect like Levi Brown.

I don't have any faith in this front office to locate a good player or a great prospect, and then develop him. Especially not in the Top 10. The upside of winning another game or two is that our financial exposure is considerably less and we'll more likely draft BPA rather than straight need when we go on the clock.

That being said, I hope we draft Cam Newton.

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/12/12/2515011/four-tiger-underclassmen-to-enter.html

Fresh off the presses, Gabbert is interested in possibly comming out.

After Luck IMO he's the best of the rest by a mile, in terms of the NFL.

I would not be unhappy if we landed him and a decent FA veteran to go with Skelton, nope that would be awesome IMO.

And if we don't draft Cam Newton, I hope we draft Blaine Gabbert. I'm not sure that he's a Top 10 pick; not with only 2 years starting. But I'd love to trade down to the magical 12-18 range and take a chance at him.

 

[azsportsfan01]

Win a couple meaningless games and end up with Levi Brown, or call it a year and try again the following season with Joe Thomas.

Ill gladly eat crow if the niners/stl/sea lose out and sea/stl tie in the finale, but I don't see that happening.

You do realize it goes both ways right? We lose vs Minnesota in 2003 we end up with either the 1st or 2nd pick and end up with Robert Gallery. Instead we win and end up with Fitz. If you want a good way to drive fans away lose on purpose.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The Cards won the first game of the year, should they have "lost out" from there to make sure they got an elite pick?

Did you read the conditions I have for losing out?

 

[Mulli]

Did you read the conditions I have for losing out?

All "mute" now anyway. Do you not see how sick and sad it would have been to those to the Denver team yesterday? Especially since there was barely any shot for Luck anyway?

 

[kerouac9]

You do realize it goes both ways right? We lose vs Minnesota in 2003 we end up with either the 1st or 2nd pick and end up with Robert Gallery. Instead we win and end up with Fitz. If you want a good way to drive fans away lose on purpose.

We had Leonard Davis and just extended L.J. Shelton. No way we pass on Manning or Rivers for anyone unless Dennis Green was our head coach.

I agree that losing on purpose or cheering for losses is silly, especially with a month left in the season.

EDIT: One quick note on Davis, since I don't want to start a new thread. Did you see him during the Dallas game? He can still bring it at an elite level. He was blocking guys ELEVEN YARDS DOWNFIELD last night. We NEVER see that happening with this team.

 

[football karma]

I take issue with the entire premise of the thread

Junior eligible deadline isnt here: who knows how many elite players are in the draft.

The worst is where you draft in an elite position (and contract) but there isn't an elite talent.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Yes. If we get, say, the 6th overall pick, we can "stumble" upon a great prospect like Levi Brown.

I don't have any faith in this front office to locate a good player or a great prospect, and then develop him. Especially not in the Top 10. The upside of winning another game or two is that our financial exposure is considerably less and we'll more likely draft BPA rather than straight need when we go on the clock.

And had we drafted Patrick Willis or AD or Darrelle Revis? It's not where you draft, it's who you draft. Luck was always a pipe dream so that's why I don't mind winning.

That being said, I hope we draft Cam Newton.

Bidwills will never draft him. I guarantee they think his Dad's money grab is a red flag. I'd draft him though where we'll be and with any luck his past problems drop him to that spot. It's funny though when you rip Mallett's history in a gimmick offense though considering what Newton plays in.

And if we don't draft Cam Newton, I hope we draft Blaine Gabbert. I'm not sure that he's a Top 10 pick; not with only 2 years starting. But I'd love to trade down to the magical 12-18 range and take a chance at him.

Gabbert might test his way into the top 20. At that point we should draft BPA though and he won't be that.

 

[Derm]

.

 

[kerouac9]

And had we drafted Patrick Willis or AD or Darrelle Revis? It's not where you draft, it's who you draft. Luck was always a pipe dream so that's why I don't mind winning.

Bidwills will never draft him. I guarantee they think his Dad's money grab is a red flag. I'd draft him though where we'll be and with any luck his past problems drop him to that spot. It's funny though when you rip Mallett's history in a gimmick offense though considering what Newton plays in.

Gabbert might test his way into the top 20. At that point we should draft BPA though and he won't be that.

You're right about who you draft, but we didn't draft those guys. And the same front office and coaching staff that will be drafting in the Top 10 this year are the same guys that passed on those guys for Levi Brown.

I'd go so far as to say that it's not where you draft, it's who's doing the drafting. I don't trust any of them to make the right choice unless it's glaringly obvious.

I like Newton for leadership and as a "take a chance on greatness" type guy. Mallett I don't see as a guy who can be great. His ceiling is as Carson Palmer with less leadership. That's great and all, but it's not going to get you anywhere. I was skeptical of Newton, and I still am of his development to this point, but what if he's a more mentally tough Vince Young? What if he's a bigger Michael Vick? I just can't pass on a guy like that.

I'd trade back into the early 20s to draft Gabbert and give up a 2011 first-rounder to do so. I don't expect to be this bad again for a while; if we're drafting in the late teens next year, it'd be a value.

 

[Duckjake]

We had Leonard Davis and just extended L.J. Shelton. No way we pass on Manning or Rivers for anyone unless Dennis Green was our head coach.

I agree that losing on purpose or cheering for losses is silly, especially with a month left in the season.

EDIT: One quick note on Davis, since I don't want to start a new thread. Did you see him during the Dallas game? He can still bring it at an elite level. He was blocking guys ELEVEN YARDS DOWNFIELD last night. We NEVER see that happening with this team.

LOL I was doing some research on ASFN the other day and found a post I made about a particular player who at the time was a board darling. I said just watch how fast they turn on him if things start to go bad or it looks like he might become a free agent. And sure enough that player has been the subject of some vilifying posts this season.

Too many people just don't understand that it is not losing the player but losing the draft position that kills us. Who cares if LD had too many false starts, or Matt Leinart was Cpt. Checkdown or Antrel Rolle freelanced too much, or Beanie has bad ankles, Or Calvin Pace only played in his contract year.

That is FIVE first round draft picks that didn't work out for us. It might be every single one this decade, except for Fitz, DRC and maybe Big Dan, is looking to be a failure. And DRC is taking some heavy criticism.

I did some research last year and found that the Colts hit on all but one of their first picks from Harrison in 1996 through Joseph Addai in 2006.

Harrison, Tarik Glenn, Manning, Edge, Rob Morris (8yrs in Indy), Dwight Freeney, Dallas Clark, Bob Sanders, and Addai.

Why can't the Cards draft like that?