Sarver on 910 at 5:00Pm

[Treesquid PhD]

I have been thinking for hours and drinking beer. I have come to the conclusion that JJ is better off in ATL I will not bash his skills to pretend we got a better deal in Brent Diawkins but I would rather have players who want to be here in a great city and great organization (at least while JC is still here) rather than someone who truely wants to be in ATL..

good luck JJ thanks for the great times enjoy your huge sum of cash and southern women.

now about this french guy..I don't like the French, he better not suck either.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

He did say he tried like a million times to sit down and talk with JJ. I'm sure the conversation would have included many of these topics which is exactly why JJ's agent wouldn't let it happen.

In this way the whole situation is so much like the McNugget fiasco. Escept for the fact that all the Suns players have been talking to JJ all summer.

Did Sarver ever say that Amare talked to Joe about coming back? I remember him saying Nash and Marion?

hehe i agree another difference is we have one of the two true bright and young mega stars working out twice a day trying to win defensive player of while winning us a title. That's why I love Amare..yeah yeah his D pffft.. the guys lays it out every offseason and comes back 10X better each year. I <B Amare

 

[Ricochet]

hehe i agree another difference is we have one of the two true bright and young mega stars working out twice a day trying to win defensive player of while winning us a title. That's why I love Amare..yeah yeah his D pffft.. the guys lays it out every offseason and comes back 10X better each year. I <B Amare

Hey dorkola its <3

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Hey dorkola its <3

lies

 

[Arizona's Finest]

there's one more thing that was said that i don't think has been mentioned and it had an affect on me:

gambo said 'what about the statement to KFAN that joe made that he'd be willing to put everything behind him if you matched, was that true?'

and sarver said obviously joe had to say that because at the time he didn't know if they'd match the offer, however from talking to him in private he really didn't know if that would be the case, and it just wasn't a chance he was willing to take.

----
the only question i have at this point (and for the record, i definitly see sarvers point of view), is that all those 'inside sources' that immediately said sarver had no intention of matching, etc, etc, they were ALL full of it? i mean, facts are still facts, and what we've seen over the last year (ESPECIALLY with only keeping 12 roster guys) leads me to still think of him as one of the cheaper owners in the league.

so what i'm trying to say is that while i think i see his point of view in THIS instance, its not like i haven't noticed what's been happening for a while here.

Dang bro you and i are on the same wave length...I went to bed completly in Sarver's corner but one thing is making me pause. Bob Young is the republics writer for the Suns and has been for awhile....and he wrote not one but two peices on Sarver not wanting to spend the cash on JJ. He has to have inside sources with the suns being that he has worked for ther Republic this long. Could he be this inaccurate (maybe thats a stupid question because reporters tend to be sensationalistic) I just dont get.

I have officially moved on however and i just want this to be over. I want sarver to get some replacements so we can still look to next season and feel like we can compete with the five or so other teams that look as strong as they do. My favorite comment that never got mentioned that Sarver said was this one...."I would rather spend more money on a good team than spend any money on a bad team....." I hope this is an accurate statement because while it looks like Joe forced his hand this time, this kind of thing will come up every off season......

 

[ActingWild]

Sarver interview Replay is on right now on 910

Right now

 

[Joe Mama]

Dang bro you and i are on the same wave length...I went to bed completly in Sarver's corner but one thing is making me pause. Bob Young is the republics writer for the Suns and has been for awhile....and he wrote not one but two peices on Sarver not wanting to spend the cash on JJ. He has to have inside sources with the suns being that he has worked for ther Republic this long. Could he be this inaccurate (maybe thats a stupid question because reporters tend to be sensationalistic) I just dont get.

Bob Young was replaced as the Phoenix Suns' beat writer last year. Essentially he was fired by the Phoenix Suns who pick which reporter is going to be their beat writer. Paul Coro is the Phoenix Suns beat writer now.

Joe

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Bob Young was replaced as the Phoenix Suns' beat writer last year. Essentially he was fired by the Phoenix Suns who pick which reporter is going to be their beat writer. Paul Coro is the Phoenix Suns beat writer now.

Joe

good info...thank you...that seems to suggest a motivation for bitterness as well...

 

[George O'Brien]

Bob Young was replaced as the Phoenix Suns' beat writer last year. Essentially he was fired by the Phoenix Suns who pick which reporter is going to be their beat writer. Paul Coro is the Phoenix Suns beat writer now.

Joe

Young had the bad luck of covering the team when it was really bad. It is a good thing one of US weren't covering the Suns, or we'd have been shipped to Atlanta.

In any case, I agree that Young probably alienated the Suns organization to the point where he may not have the kind of contacts a long time beat writer should still have.

 

[coloradosun]

Sarver-


- Elected not to sign him last year because he had just bought the team and committed a TON of money. Hadn't proven how successful the team would be and didn't want to lock in a starting 5 with big contracts without knowing how well the team would perform together. (Good point).

- Thought Joe would make more money the next season. Told him he really liked him and knows he'd be making more money than what his offer was (but not expecting him to be a MAX player) and hope he'd be in a Suns uniform (this was all last year).


- Realized about halfway through the season (especially after the Miami blowout) that they would match for Joe.

- Never thought the rumors were true of Joe wanting to leave. Figured it was all posturing. Kept thinking, okay, that's fine, let's just meet and tell us how much you want. Told him they want Joe, want him as a Sun. Based their offer off of Steve's and Manu's offers thinking it was fair.

- No response from Joe's agent from the 6 year $75 million dollar offer.

Here are the points I would like to highlight.

1)Sarver did spend a lot of money last summer but did not have to if he would have not traded the draft pick to Chicago. But I do see his point, there was no way to expect the success they had.

2)He knew that JJ would be getting a bigger contract than what was offered last year. Just did not expect a max offer. Sarver was willing to pay him more than the 50M.

3)Knew that if they were going to be competitive in the long term JJ had to be a part of the team, the Miami loss proved it, and that was enough for Sarver to match any offer.

4)Based the initial contract offer off of Manu Ginobli and Steve Nash, I think that is absolutely the right starting point and very fair.

5)Most important point, Arn Tellem was the culprit in this fiasco. Convincing Atlanta to offer the max and telling JJ that he he is worth it. Not responding to an even better offer (guarenteed 75M) is just bad representation. If JJ's agent would have been Duffy (Nash's and Amare's former) I am sure things would have been handled differently. Tellem knew if JJ met with the Suns he would have been convinced to return to Phoenix and would probably have been swayed by the 10K presentation. We are finding out how vulnerable JJ really is to bad advice.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Colorado,

It was the Miami win that made sarver realize the team needed to stay together.

Also, 75/6 is MUCH worse than 70/5. Any decent agent will see that. After 5 years Joe just has to get the current MLE to make the same amount which he is sure to do if he doesn't get injured.

Even if he does get injured he can invest a large sum of the 20 million upfront and make that extra 5 million by the time his contract runs up.

 

[coloradosun]

Colorado,

It was the Miami win that made sarver realize the team needed to stay together.

Also, 75/6 is MUCH worse than 70/5. Any decent agent will see that. After 5 years Joe just has to get the current MLE to make the same amount which he is sure to do if he doesn't get injured.

Even if he does get injured he can invest a large sum of the 20 million upfront and make that extra 5 million by the time his contract runs up.

1) That is what I was trying to say.

2) 75M was better than the original offer the Suns made (based original offer off of Nash and Manu). And the offer was a part of negotiations, why have an agent if he is not going to be a part of the negotiations. If was an insult, at least tell the Suns to them directly you don't just close up shop.

3)Invest? Sounds like it will all be spent on his family. That is why I think it is important to him.

 

[George O'Brien]

I can't help but feel that JJ's agent has an agenda. If he didn't, he'd have made sure the meeting with JJ was set up early and the air had been cleared from the get go. He certainly would have given the Suns a counter offer to work from.

If JJ was really so angry at the Suns, it seems likely the Suns would have realized it well before his agent was able to hide him and set out to poison his attitude. I'm sure there was something to work from, but it is hard to believe this is entirely JJ.

 

[sunsfn]

I can't help but feel that JJ's agent has an agenda. If he didn't, he'd have made sure the meeting with JJ was set up early and the air had been cleared from the get go. He certainly would have given the Suns a counter offer to work from.

If JJ was really so angry at the Suns, it seems likely the Suns would have realized it well before his agent was able to hide him and set out to poison his attitude. I'm sure there was something to work from, but it is hard to believe this is entirely JJ.

JJ's agent probably has another player he wants Atlanta to overpay this year or next and they promised to do so if he delivered JJ.?

 

[George O'Brien]

JJ's agent probably has another player he wants Atlanta to overpay this year or next and they promised to do so if he delivered JJ.?

That's what happened with Dice. Dice's agent took the Nuggets a package deal of Dice and NVE. Dice took a beating financially and didn't realize he was being conned until years later.

 

[cpatterson23]

Oh, i don't know why everybody's making such a big deal about all of this. JJ wasn't happy with us, and he wanted money. Greed. You get way too many NBA stars who put ******** green in front of teamship(or w/e it's called) and championships. Reggie Miller is an example of a good person who sacrificed money to stay with his team, even though they hated him at the start. JJ is just succumbing to the NBA's regular standard of "hey i'm rich, so i think ill get richer" these young guys go for money and get it, and then complain about not getting a championship when they're older. Reggie should have gotten a championship, so should have john stockton(i think he took a little hit for the team once???) and these other guys who go for the gold, and not the green.

 

[Joe Mama]

Oh, i don't know why everybody's making such a big deal about all of this. JJ wasn't happy with us, and he wanted money. Greed. You get way too many NBA stars who put ******** green in front of teamship(or w/e it's called) and championships. Reggie Miller is an example of a good person who sacrificed money to stay with his team, even though they hated him at the start. JJ is just succumbing to the NBA's regular standard of "hey i'm rich, so i think ill get richer" these young guys go for money and get it, and then complain about not getting a championship when they're older. Reggie should have gotten a championship, so should have john stockton(i think he took a little hit for the team once???) and these other guys who go for the gold, and not the green.

Every one of these guys wants money. The sides, in this case money was not really the problem. This was about JJ wanting to be the star of his own team. Reggie Miller and John Stockton were also well compensated in Indiana and Utah. They stayed in those places because they liked them, they felt they had a good shot at a championship, AND they got paid.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

The list of great players who were overshadowed by their teammates is legend. Curiously enough, they ended up with a fair amount of recognition anyway. A few that come to mind include:

Pippen
Stockton
McHale
Worthy
Kobe
Dumars

JJ's may feel the Suns don't think he is a superstar and he is probably right. But somehow there are a lot of great players who think winning is more important than being the poster guy for a losing team. Perhaps it is because they had more self confidence.

 

[sunsfn]

On the other hand, if Sarver would have paid JJ 50 mil for 6 years a year ago, JJ would have been happy and so would the suns and all the fans today.

It starts with money and ends with money.
All the players want a championship, and most of them want to stay with the teams where they started or played the longest. A year ago JJ would have told you he was not leaving and did not have any intention in leaving.

JJ feels that the suns slighted him last year when they paid Nash and Q., and not him, so he tried to get a big contract elsewhere, and he has succeeded.
Sarver wanted him for less and he failed.

Sarver is at fault to start this thing, and then JJ has some fault for doing some of the things he has been doing.

If this deal goes through it will hurt the suns this year and maybe next. The two picks and player are not going to help this year, and maybe never.
JJ for a player and two picks itself sounds ok, but when you trade a starter you need to get a starter back, that is why this trade is not as good for the suns as the Hawks. (that is right now)

If the deal falls through and JJ plays for the suns next year the suns will be a clear favorite to win it all.
(there will be no problem with JJ playing with any of the suns players by the way)
However, the money will hurt them the next year, and they will probably have to make a trade somehow to get rid of someone.

 

[green machine]

actual transcript

http://www.nba.com/suns/news/sarver_xtra_050804.html

This was on suns.com

interesting read.

 

[coloradosun]

Sarver wanted him for less and he failed.

Sarver is at fault to start this thing, and then JJ has some fault for doing some of the things he has been doing.

But Sarver conceded the fact that he would have to pay JJ more than the 50M the following summer and was willing to do it.

I fault Bryan more than Sarver, signing Q was the problem. The perception of JJ was that was an insult because it was supposed to be a motivator. Sure in the long run Q got us Thomas but at the expense of JJ. Q was just unnecessary and I think the Suns now regret the move.

I just remember the photo of JJ and Nash working out last summer and I think JJ would have been motivated enough without Q. I doubt Nash was a reason JJ wanted to leave.

 

[Chaplin]

I fault Bryan more than Sarver, signing Q was the problem. The perception of JJ was that was an insult because it was supposed to be a motivator. Sure in the long run Q got us Thomas but at the expense of JJ. Q was just unnecessary and I think the Suns now regret the move.

I just remember the photo of JJ and Nash working out last summer and I think JJ would have been motivated enough without Q.

Huh? The Q trade had NOTHING to do with JJ feeling unwanted or wanting to leave. Q himself had nothing to do with it. We all know you're anti-Q, but this is ridiculous!

 

[Joe Mama]

Huh? The Q trade had NOTHING to do with JJ feeling unwanted or wanting to leave. Q himself had nothing to do with it. We all know you're anti-Q, but this is ridiculous!

I agree that Colorado's argument may be a bit of a stretch, but it is not completely unfounded. JJ was upset last summer because the Phoenix Suns were willing to spend $43 million on Q, but they wouldn't give him $50 million.

Joe

 

[Errntknght]

Coloradosun, "I fault Bryan more than Sarver, signing Q was the problem. The perception of JJ was that was an insult because it was supposed to be a motivator. Sure in the long run Q got us Thomas but at the expense of JJ. Q was just unnecessary and I think the Suns now regret the move."


It's hard to assess who should get how much of the blame, but it's interesting that BC is getting almost none of it on this board. I know that many people have exonerated him because he says that he recommended paying JJ last summer. But how strong of a recommendation could it have been since he'd engineered the acquisition of Q, who played the same position as JJ? He well could have seen the direction Sarver was leaning and made a wimpy recommendation as a CYA move. It's hard to believe that he couldn't have gotten the owner to up the offer 10% if he'd felt very strongly about retaining JJ.

I saw the Q acquisition more as an insurance policy against JJ leaving than as a motivational move - there was certainly nothing in JJ's history with the Suns that indicated he thrived in direct competition with teammates. I recall saying at the time how ironic it would be if taking out the insurance caused the event to happen that you were insuring against.


Chaplin, "Huh? The Q trade had NOTHING to do with JJ feeling unwanted or wanting to leave."

And NOTHING is exactly how much Coloradosun said about the trade of Q impacting JJ's wanting to leave.

 

[Chaplin]

Chaplin, "Huh? The Q trade had NOTHING to do with JJ feeling unwanted or wanting to leave."

And NOTHING is exactly how much Coloradosun said about the trade of Q impacting JJ's wanting to leave.

I guess I should have said the "acquisition" of Q, but Colorado was implying that signing Q made JJ mad enough to want to leave. Of course, Q being traded away did nothing to change his opinion, thus it is difficult to blame the acquisition of Q in any of this. In fact, JJ complained about being the "4th option". Who, in your opinion, was the 5th option? Q was. So Quentin Richardson has nothing to do with it.

Last summer, was JJ better than Q? Or did he just have the potential to be better? It's all a matter of perception. Last summer the front office thought that Q and JJ were relatively even in skill level, and Q's margin for improvement was still positive as well.

Now, if you want to argue about the 5 million dollar difference, well, that's a different story. IMO, 5 million isn't that much to these people, and Sarver probably should have signed him then.