Sarver Sucks!

Chaplin

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I know how you feel. You make a nice post with several points and someone will focus on one small aspect of your post or they'll discover a trivial inaccuracy and it will feel like that's the only part of your message that got through. The good news is it happens to all of us. The bad news is that we all tend to do the same thing to others, oftentimes without realizing it. The really bad news is that a few of us DO realize it and we do it anyway.;)

Steve

And Jay Feely sucks, right? ;)
 

BC867

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And Jay Feely sucks, right? ;)
He did it all today, didn't he? Field goals, extra points, kickoffs, running for a TD. I was hoping they'd call for another fake FG so he could throw a pass. :thumbup:
 

elindholm

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Thanks for the correction. Jeez one minute I'm geting called out for supposedly saying he will definately reinjure it, and now I'm being called out for saying that he could be completely healed. Good times.

I was just correcting "the record" rather than you personally.
 

Trifecta

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I know how you feel. You make a nice post with several points and someone will focus on one small aspect of your post or they'll discover a trivial inaccuracy and it will feel like that's the only part of your message that got through. The good news is it happens to all of us. The bad news is that we all tend to do the same thing to others, oftentimes without realizing it. The really bad news is that a few of us DO realize it and we do it anyway.;)

Steve

Yeah I think I might have to start putting disclaimers in my posts like "this offhand comment does not mean I think x instead of y".

It's also a shame that this has turned into yet another Amare microfracture "should we have signed him or shouldnt we?" thread instead of what we should be talking alot more about - Sarver and his incompetance :)
 

Budden

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So you don't think the Suns doctors thought of that also when they were most certainly being consulted about resigning him?

People fail to factor that although Sarver makes the ultimate decision, there are a lot of people determining what the best course of action is.

So you don't think the Suns doctors thought of that also when they were most certainly being consulted about resigning him?

People fail to factor that although Sarver makes the ultimate decision, there are a lot of people determining what the best course of action is.

You're right about this. But does this vindicate Sarver in any way? Some people seem to think that Sarver has an ego problem, that he is a self-perceived know-it-all who in fact knows very little. But, what is better: a) a person who knows very little yet thinks he knows a lot (and hence dismisses the advice of others as unnecessary or incorrect), or b) a person who knows very little, understands his own intellectual shortcomings, and then seeks advice from others who may or may not be qualified to be doling out such advice?

I can't think of a good reason to ask the Suns medical team about the short-term or long-term recovery process from microfracture surgery. Let's look at the two prominent microfracture cases in Suns history: 1) Penny Hardaway - after the surgery, the doctors said they decided to perform the procedure rather than do another scope on his knee because they believed the surgery would prolong his career. There is no way to know what would have happened had the doctors done what they initially planned (athroscopic surgery), but if you look at Penny's performance on the injured knee during the Spurs and Lakers serieses compared to his performance when he finally started playing again in 01-02, it seems like it was more of a career-ender than lengthener. Additionally, the timetable for Penny's return after he had the surgery was 4-6 weeks. That's the kind of timeline that pressures you into pushing yourself through pain that you shouldn't be pushing through. But when the doctors look at an MRI and say "you're perfectly healthy," you push through it. Then you finally return in January, play four games, and are forced to shut it down for the reat of the season.

But, hey, this was their first microfracture surgery on a professional athlete, so maybe they get a free pass on Penny. Let's move to number 2) Amar'e. His estimated recovery time, although not as rediculouos as Penny's, was wrong. They talked about a December-January return. And when Amar'e's rehab time seemed to be progressing right on schedule. Sure, he was in pain, but the doctors did their MRI's and were able to confirm that his knee was progressing the way they thought it would. Rehab can sometimes be painful, but the scans of his surgically repaired knee showed that the pain he was doing to his knee was a necessary part of the rehabilitation process - really, it was more like "soreness" and "stiffness" than pain, if he really was as healed as the doctors thought. So, based on the Suns' doctors' medical opinions, he pushed through it. And instead of a speedy recovery, the result was another knee injury, this time to his previously-healthy knee. He still made it back by January though, and he managed to put up 20 points in one half of a game against the Blazers. A couple games after, and he was out for the rest of the season.

I think it's safe to say that the Suns doctors don't know anything about post-op microfracture timetables. So if Sarver is letting their advice sway his decision-making, he still sucks.
 

nashman

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Some of you are being much to shortsighted the chances of Amare maintaining the level of play he is currently doing is not very good, he is having career numbers serisously doubt he keeps that up! Lets wait awhile can't judge when the Suns are struggling and Amare happens to be having a good few weeks geesh. In the long run the Suns absolutely made the right move by NOT signing him!
 

Chaplin

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You're right about this. But does this vindicate Sarver in any way? Some people seem to think that Sarver has an ego problem, that he is a self-perceived know-it-all who in fact knows very little. But, what is better: a) a person who knows very little yet thinks he knows a lot (and hence dismisses the advice of others as unnecessary or incorrect), or b) a person who knows very little, understands his own intellectual shortcomings, and then seeks advice from others who may or may not be qualified to be doling out such advice?

I think it's safe to say that the Suns doctors don't know anything about post-op microfracture timetables. So if Sarver is letting their advice sway his decision-making, he still sucks.

Wow, can't believe what I've read here. Nobody's vindicating Sarver. Everyone loves to put 100% of the blame on him but he definitely shares it with a lot of other people.

Also, I find it funny that you've completely discounted the doctors in this case. That is not smart business and even a guy like Sarver knows that.
 

AzStevenCal

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Some of you are being much to shortsighted the chances of Amare maintaining the level of play he is currently doing is not very good, he is having career numbers serisously doubt he keeps that up! Lets wait awhile can't judge when the Suns are struggling and Amare happens to be having a good few weeks geesh. In the long run the Suns absolutely made the right move by NOT signing him!

I don't think anyone expects him to keep up this level. Much of the pro-Amare sentiment here is in response to the MANY comments over the summer by people that were convinced that Amare would fall flat on his face without Nash. It's obvious that Amare's "greatness" wasn't purely a function of Nash's "greatness" despite what so many insisted here. His performance thus far says nothing about his long term value though.

Steve
 

nashman

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Like the Knicks are going to do anything in the east geesh...just the east coast version of the fun in gun Suns. Boston, Miami, Chicago among other are going to destroy them even if they make the playoffs!
 

nashman

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Well when your attempts are up and your FG% lower and your playing more minutes yeah I think he does miss Nash. And when all is said and done at the end of the year I think the numbers will even more strongly suggest that he does! Remember he struggled early just recently put it together we shall see how long it lasts.
 

AzStevenCal

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Well when your attempts are up and your FG% lower and your playing more minutes yeah I think he does miss Nash. And when all is said and done at the end of the year I think the numbers will even more strongly suggest that he does! Remember he struggled early just recently put it together we shall see how long it lasts.

Again, you're missing the point (by quite a distance). When one of us suggests that Amare will be a better player once he separates himself from Nash, that would be the time to rush in with your argument (and there is one of us that suggests such a thing). Right now, most of us are just pointing out that Amare is a legitimate force in his own right. He'd probably be doing even better with Nash playing alongside him but Felton and he are a very effective duo.

The Knicks winning streak is something they haven't done in a long time and Amare has just done something no Knicks player has ever done. Coming back to earth soon won't negate either of those facts. They have been a horrible team for years now and Amare is helping them rise out of the dumps. He's not taking them to the penthouse but it's a very positive upgrade regardless.

And it doesn't even matter that he and the Knicks have accomplished this against the weakest teams. This isn't the first season they've faced weak teams.

Steve
 

AzStevenCal

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Like the Knicks are going to do anything in the east geesh...just the east coast version of the fun in gun Suns. Boston, Miami, Chicago among other are going to destroy them even if they make the playoffs!

Hold that thought while I work on a witty retort.

Steve
 

Budden

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Wow, can't believe what I've read here. Nobody's vindicating Sarver. Everyone loves to put 100% of the blame on him but he definitely shares it with a lot of other people.

I understand your astonishment. The fact that someone quoted something you wrote and then started the next paragraph with the words "You're right about this" is something I'm sure you've never encountered before. If it's any consolation, I'm pretty confident you won't have to deal with that type of shock again.
 

AfroSuns

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Well when your attempts are up and your FG% lower and your playing more minutes yeah I think he does miss Nash. And when all is said and done at the end of the year I think the numbers will even more strongly suggest that he does! Remember he struggled early just recently put it together we shall see how long it lasts.

Any player who has played with Nash is going to miss Nash, but Amare is an offensive machine in his own right and will get his WITHOUT Nash.
As much as Amare may have missed Nash, so far this season, Nash appears to be missing a good finisher more than Amare is missing a witty facilitator.
 

Griffin

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I am not sure what the argument is here. We all knew Amare is a prolific scorer. We have witnessed that for many years. The only way to stop him from scoring is for a big team to concentrate all their defensive efforts on stopping him, which won't happen until they play a team like the Lakers and may not happen until the playoffs.

As for his PPG average, he is also averaging a career high field goal attempts. During this streak of 30+ point games he has taken at least 20 attempts in every game. He rarely took that many shots in Phoenix, because we had a lot more players around him who could score. New York does not. To his credit, Amare has done very well in his new role.

What is more surprising is that New York keeps winning. Part of it can be attributed to the easy schedule, but also you have to give credit to the coaching staff. Felton has never been this good of a point guard until now. Chandler is playing great. Fields, a rookie, is starting for a coach who supposedly does not like to develop rookies, and playing very well. Unlike Heat, NY only got one superstar this summer, but they are making the most of it by getting the other players to step up their games. Amare, of course, makes that a lot easier.
 

Chaplin

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I understand your astonishment. The fact that someone quoted something you wrote and then started the next paragraph with the words "You're right about this" is something I'm sure you've never encountered before. If it's any consolation, I'm pretty confident you won't have to deal with that type of shock again.

You asked if what I said vindicated Sarver. How that can even be a thought is beyond me, but if you want to go the personal route, be my guest.
 

carrrnuttt

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I'm starting to have visions of Rachel Phelps in "Major League." Sarver wants to move the team to San Diego...
 

Bufalay

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Hold that thought while I work on a witty retort.

Steve

I got one for ya:

Like the Suns are going to do anything in the west geesh...LA, Dallas, SA, Utah, OKC, NO and Portland among other are going to destroy them even if they make the playoffs!

Well when your turnovers are up and your assists lower and your playing more minutes yeah I think Nash does miss Amare. And when all is said and done at the end of the year I think the numbers will even more strongly suggest that he does!

Please pardon my overly-aggressive tone.
 

AzStevenCal

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I'm starting to have visions of Rachel Phelps in "Major League." Sarver wants to move the team to San Diego...

I've never found that speculation to have even the slightest feel of truth. The guy would pretty much have to destroy the franchise for an extended period before the league would allow it. I don't think he comes anywhere close to the deep pockets necessary to survive that process.

Seattle was an unusual situation and IMO there's no way the league let's a well supported team go this route again. And, at least with the Sonics franchise, they were moving it to a city that had demonstrated incredible support for the idea of a team.

Steve
 

AzStevenCal

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I got one for ya:



Please pardon my overly-aggressive tone.

It's a good comeback given the original post but I was really just finding a little joy with his comment that the Suns ran a "fun in gun" offense. Maybe we should have traded for Arenas?

Steve
 

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