Sarver Sucks!

[Mainstreet]

I thought this thread was about how Sarver sucks?
Can we get back to that?

I think it's only fair to put Lon Babby and Lance Blanks under the same microscope. I guess we are still waiting for them to make a major move, particularly Blanks to praise or criticize.

It was nice to have more than one person to blame. It's only fair to Steve Kerr.

 

[mojorizen7]

I think it's only fair to put Lon Babby and Lance Blanks under the same microscope. I guess we are still waiting for them to make a major move, particularly Blanks to praise or criticize.

It was nice to have more than one person to blame. It's only fair to Steve Kerr.

I'm more interested in what the SUNS fans' pulse is in terms of where they think this franchise is headed under Sarver.

Is he really in this for the long haul?
Are his intentions to really make an attempt to put a legit contender back on the court?
Is he willing to work towards that goal over the course of the next 5-10 years?
Or will he just cash in his chips in a few years after Na$h retires and the groceries run out?

Questions like that interest me.

 

[Covert Rain]

The guy improved leaps and bounds on offense. Even without coaching, it stands to reason that he should have shown SOME improvement in the defensive side of the ball. He's a veteran now and played against a lot of guys who are good defenders. He couldn't try to pick up any of those skills? Coaching is only part of a player's development.

If it was as simple as playing with players more gifted and bring able to "pick up" those skills then every PG that has played with Nash could have picked up some of his. It's not like that. A player has to posses some natural ability at a particular skill for a coach to have something to work with. Amare IMO never was a naturally gifted defensive player. Now factor in a coach who didn't give a crap about defense and I don't see how anybody could expect anything different.

Yeah it's the coaches fault us would stand around and do nothing on defense... What a complete joke! Amare is a great scorer period that's the ONLY thing he does well as ball player and that's not worth the max period, the suns made the right move and with a little more time than a stretch of games against weak competition it will become even more obvious to the few that believe we should have kept him. I would rather watch players try and fail than to look totally disinterested in trying like we saw in amare almost on a nightly basis.

nashman...I find it ironic your calling out Amare for doing something that I don't think he did yet....I have seen Nash get burned by guys so many times on defense he appears to give up sometimes when a guy blows by him.

I think you have Nash blinders on....as usual.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm more interested in what the SUNS fans' pulse is in terms of where they think this franchise is headed under Sarver.

Is he really in this for the long haul?
Are his intentions to really make an attempt to put a legit contender back on the court?
Is he willing to work towards that goal over the course of the next 5-10 years?
Or will he just cash in his chips in a few years after Na$h retires and the groceries run out?

Questions like that interest me.

I think long ago Sarver said he was not in it for the long haul. Although Sarver may be misguided at times, I now think he wants to continue to put a competitive product on the floor. Sarver has shown he will spend the money, so why wouldn't he want to win it all. IMO, Sarver has trouble relinquishing power to basketball people. Now I want to see if Babby and Blanks are allowed to steer the team. I'm beginning to think Sarver is becoming more than a casual owner. I believe he has grown into the role as time has passed so I'm expecting the Suns to make a move to improve the team. I hope that I am not disappointed.

Imagine me, advocating for Sarver. I must not be feeling well tonight.

 

[Chaplin]

If it was as simple as playing with players more gifted and bring able to "pick up" those skills then every PG that has played with Nash could have picked up some of his. It's not like that. A player has to posses some natural ability at a particular skill for a coach to have something to work with. Amare IMO never was a naturally gifted defensive player. Now factor in a coach who didn't give a crap about defense and I don't see how anybody could expect anything different.

This is about picking up basic defensive fundamentals such as positioning and learning just to box out guys to get a rebound. Those are skill he should have learned. Completely different from running an offense and computing passing angles in your head. I can't believe you compared Amare learning a little defense to Nash's ability to run the offense.

 

[nashman]

Amare can't play defense and STANDS AROUND LIKE A MORON AND DOESN'T EVEN TRY sorry thats alot different than Nash who goes all out most nights. If Amare had HALF of Nashs' heart he would be all world! And Steve if you did not see Amare disinterested in playing defense you have NOT watched the Suns very much because otherwise you could see Amare either lost or standing on defense on a nightly basis. Come back with any witty retort you want I know what I saw and Amare rarely gave much effort on D!

 

[nashman]

No one ever freaking said Nash was a good defensive player goofball! He doesn't have the tools to be but you know what he does.... he goes out night after night and puts it all out there he trys and clearly not always successful and as I said if Amare had HALF of Nashs' heart he would be all world and the Suns probably already have a title! Whatever the loser is gone and I am happy the Suns made the right choice to part ways with him, he was never....NEVER leading anyone to a title!

 

[Covert Rain]

This is about picking up basic defensive fundamentals such as positioning and learning just to box out guys to get a rebound. Those are skill he should have learned. Completely different from running an offense and computing passing angles in your head. I can't believe you compared Amare learning a little defense to Nash's ability to run the offense.

So what is Nash's excuse on defense? Do you see where I am going? You can "tell" a guy and demonstrate fundamentals all you want. Certain players never grasp those concepts no matter how much you try and teach them. There has to be some natural ability no matter what the skill (rebounding, passing, shooting, blocking, stealing, boxing out, etc...).

I watched an interview with Phil Jackson once and I like what he said. You can never teach a player to be great at any one thing. You can only teach them how to use what they already have by showing them how to prepare.

 

[nashman]

Daren what are you even trying to say? I mean are you saying Amare doesn't have the tools to play defense or even give a full effort? I am glad he is gone so people can quit making excuses for his piss poor defensive EFFORT which was little to none most nights!

 

[Covert Rain]

Daren what are you even trying to say? I mean are you saying Amare doesn't have the tools to play defense or even give a full effort? I am glad he is gone so people can quit making excuses for his piss poor defensive EFFORT which was little to none most nights!

I have said it over and over. Amare does not and never will posses the tools to play great defense or be a great rebounder. Do you realize how many really really good offensive big men have come through the NBA? Some of them were not good defensive players. Some of them were terrible rebounders. I suppose every single one of them was lazy?

That is total crap. Amare laid it on the line all the time here. A guy that is the first to practice and last to leave is not lazy. A guy that the team leaned on to score 20+ points per night even if it meant playing 40 minutes is not lazy. A guy they ask to bang with the bigger big men (and making them look bad defensively) by playing him out of position as Center on most nights is not lazy.

I posted Amare's #'s last year defensively and if I recall he was somewhere in the middle of the pack at PF. Steve Nash has been one of the worst year in and year out. Again...I have seen Nash just slap at guys running around him and giving up plays letting opposing guards do layups. I have seen Nash give up on a ton of plays defensively. You just give him a pass because of his offensive brilliance. It cracks me up that you are blasting Amare for what I see Nash do almost every single night on defense.

Let me be clear...I don't think either of them have what it takes to be a good defender. To me it's a lack of skill and specifically with Amare a lack of basketball smarts.

 

[Chaplin]

Nash is not a good individual defender, but it's not like he doesn't try. He's actually a decent team defender, but people tend to ignore that point. Many point guards get beat off the dribble, including Chris Paul. The difference is that Chris Paul gets a pass because he has guys like Okafor behind him to cover. Nash has... Channing Frye.

Amare CAN be a decent team defender, but he doesn't try. A couple blocks does not a good defender make. His individual defense is pretty hopeless.

And all this postulating about Amare playing Center. It's all a crock. He's 6'11" 250lbs. There aren't a lot of players bigger than that in the NBA, period, regardless of if they are a center. Even now, there are what--5 players taller than 7' that Amare would try to defend? If you give Amare a pass because he apparently always plays against guys a lot bigger than him, then what about Nash? It's not like he's 25 years old and 6'5".

 

[Cheesebeef]

Nash is not a good individual defender, but it's not like he doesn't try. He's actually a decent team defender, but people tend to ignore that point. Many point guards get beat off the dribble, including Chris Paul. The difference is that Chris Paul gets a pass because he has guys like Okafor behind him to cover. Nash has... Channing Frye.

Amare CAN be a decent team defender, but he doesn't try. A couple blocks does not a good defender make. His individual defense is pretty hopeless.

And all this postulating about Amare playing Center. It's all a crock. He's 6'11" 250lbs.

where are you getting 6'11 and 250? He's always been listed at 6'10" and around 240 even that's being generous when you actually see him on the court against Cs in the NBA?

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/amare_stoudemire/

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3607

 

[Covert Rain]

where are you getting 6'11 and 250? He's always been listed at 6'10" and around 240 even that's being generous when you actually see him on the court against Cs in the NBA?

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/amare_stoudemire/

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3607

They always overstate size. I agree with you. When you see Amare against other Centers it's obvious he is not that tall.

 

[mojorizen7]

Tom Chambers was always listed at 6'10" and i met him once a long long time ago(as well as Mark West in the same room) and i'm here to tell you that Chambers was close to 7 foot. Either that or Mark West was really only about 6'9"(which i guess is a possibility). Chambers is taller than West,that much i know yet they were both listed at 6'10".

One of the rare occasions when a player is under-listed.

 

[AzStevenCal]

They always overstate size. I agree with you. When you see Amare against other Centers it's obvious he is not that tall.

They almost always overstate size. There have been a few exceptions though. The Milwaukee/Seattle/Boston guy (Vinnie something, I think-I don't care enough about him to look up his name) that ruined his career with alcohol was 7 plus but he insisted on being listed as 6-11 so expectations would be more manageable (or something like that).

I watched the Knicks game tonight and I swear I saw Marquis Daniels and Amare standing side by side and they looked to be the same height. Maybe it was the camera angle but he always looks shorter than the other forwards and centers he's matched up against.

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

They almost always overstate size. There have been a few exceptions though. The Milwaukee/Seattle/Boston guy (Vinnie something, I think-I don't care enough about him to look up his name) that ruined his career with alcohol was 7 plus but he insisted on being listed as 6-11 so expectations would be more manageable (or something like that).

I watched the Knicks game tonight and I swear I saw Marquis Daniels and Amare standing side by side and they looked to be the same height. Maybe it was the camera angle but he always looks shorter than the other forwards and centers he's matched up against.

Steve

Baker.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Baker.

Yup. That's the guy.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

They always overstate size. I agree with you. When you see Amare against other Centers it's obvious he is not that tall.

Facts have no value when your responding to Chaplin.

If you say something bad (even if its the truth) about the Suns, then he will flame you. The best part about debating with him is that he never provides evidence and tries to use sarcasm or biased opinions to prove a point.

You might as well just admit that allowing Amare to leave via free agency was a GREAT move, maybe even best move of this decade and that Warrick is an all star player and a future hall of famer.

Homerism....

 

[Chaplin]

Facts have no value when your responding to Chaplin.

If you say something bad (even if its the truth) about the Suns, then he will flame you. The best part about debating with him is that he never provides evidence and tries to use sarcasm or biased opinions to prove a point.

You might as well just admit that allowing Amare to leave via free agency was a GREAT move, maybe even best move of this decade and that Warrick is an all star player and a future hall of famer.

Homerism....

And again, you get everything completely wrong, which you've done since you arrived here.

I never said allowing Amare to leave via free agency was a great move. It's common knowledge that I WANTED Amare to take the offer we had, which was a MAX contract that happened to be partially guaranteed in years 4 and 5. I certainly DID NOT want the Suns to give him a completely guaranteed max contract this past summer. If you disagree, that's fine, but I think my reasons are pretty apparent and that's all the evidence any free-thinking human being needs.

And please, why don't YOU provide evidence where I said that letting him go is the "best move of the decade" and that Warrick is an all star and future hall-of-fame player. I DARE you to try.

You have lost the argument and resort to personal attacks to defend yourself. Very mature.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Sarver just received the key to the City of New York. Wow. They love him there now.

 

[sunsfan88]

And again, you get everything completely wrong, which you've done since you arrived here.

I never said allowing Amare to leave via free agency was a great move. It's common knowledge that I WANTED Amare to take the offer we had, which was a MAX contract that happened to be partially guaranteed in years 4 and 5. I certainly DID NOT want the Suns to give him a completely guaranteed max contract this past summer. If you disagree, that's fine, but I think my reasons are pretty apparent and that's all the evidence any free-thinking human being needs.

And please, why don't YOU provide evidence where I said that letting him go is the "best move of the decade" and that Warrick is an all star and future hall-of-fame player. I DARE you to try.

You have lost the argument and resort to personal attacks to defend yourself. Very mature.

I never stated that you said any of that.

 

[Chaplin]

I never stated that you said any of that.

You said I never provide evidence, and basically went personal and attacked me. I backed up myself AGAIN, which of course you ignored. Congratulations.