Schefter (and others) on Von Miller

[187]

What is really sad is that we have Joey Porter as our starting pass rushing OLB. A guy with almost 100 sacks in his career, and a good looking kid in Scofield behind Porter, and we are talking about having to use the $5 pick in the upcoming draft to replace them.

The only thing that is sad is Joey Porter's play. He didn't have a sack in 10 of the 14 games he played in this season and you are fretting about replacing him? Not only can he not get to the QB, but he is an absolute joke in run support as well. If anything I could see Schofield getting moved over to LOLB if we draft a Quinn or VM and stick them at ROLB. Pitt's got Harrison at ROLB and Woodley at LOLB, so there's no reason we couldn't do the same. Look at our OLB's: Porter, Haggans, Schofield, and hopefully Will Davis. We've got two guys on their way out of the league, a young player in schofield that showed promise this season, and another young guy in Will Davis that hasn't shown much more than being a backup to spell the starters (when he is healthy). If we have an option to draft an elite player at the second most important position in a 3-4 defense and one that we just so happen to be lacking talent and youth at, we better jump all over the opportunity.

 

[az jam]

Von Miller is a senior and had more than one good season unlike some of the other top 5 defensive players: Fairly, Bowers & Quinn. I'm not saying he is better than them but they all had just one good college season. Here are VM's career numbers:

Year GP TKL TFL SACK PBU INT
2007 9 22 4.0 2.0 0 0
2008 12 44 7.5 3.5 0 0
2009 13 48 21.5 17.0 5 0
2010 13 68 17.5 10.5 6 1
Totals 47 182 50.5 33.0 11 1
(I have no idea how to make these numbers appear correctly on the board..sorry)

This is from Mel Kiper's preliminary draft report on VM.
"VM was off to a slow start this season due to an ankle injury, but since that time has reverted back to his superlative form of 2009 when he led the nation with 17 sacks. Defensive coordinators in the NFL that utilize a base 3-4 scheme will definitely want to bring Miller into the fold as an attack OLB"

The bottom line is that it really depends who else is there a #5 when the Cards pick. However, I would be happy with him as the pick.

 

[Stout]

That's fair. Scofield was a likely second round pick before his injury at the Senior Bowl last year.

No way. Schofield would have easily been a 1st-round pick last year. When he went down, talk was that he was the best pass-rushing DE/OLB out there. He was crushing every tackle in the Senior Bowl practices, and pretty much couldn't be stopped. He was also bigger than Miller is now.

I'm going to watch some Miller videos now, if I can find them, to see if I should revise my opinion.

 

[az jam]

No way. Schofield would have easily been a 1st-round pick last year. When he went down, talk was that he was the best pass-rushing DE/OLB out there. He was crushing every tackle in the Senior Bowl practices, and pretty much couldn't be stopped. He was also bigger than Miller is now.

I'm going to watch some Miller videos now, if I can find them, to see if I should revise my opinion.

Cards web page has Schofield as 6 '2" 231 lbs. At the Senior Bowl wieigh-in, VM came in at 6' 2 5/8 & 237 lbs so he is slightly bigger at this time. Both will probably be in the 240 range in the next couple of years.

 

[joeshmo]

Do you have a video of him using a spin move? If you do I'd happily revise my opinion of him.

Not a one trick pony. Just from a quick look at my own notes from 2010. Note that I do not sit an watch all games, record them, look at each play in slow mo all the time, but if I see a play I liked from a player that will fit a need I will jot it down along with when it happened in the game if I want to try and find it later.

Against OU in the 4th quarter at about the one minute market, Engages OT, sets the edge like a good DE would do in a run situation then disengages to make a play 4 yards in the back field.

Against Texas 4th quarter 10 minutes to go, inside swim move for tackle for loss.

Against Nebraska 4th quarter 1 minute to go, bull rush OT, doubled by the RB, swim move inside for the sack.

Against Mizzu 4th quarter, 7 minutes to go, bull rush to inside spin for the sack.

Not just a inside spin move of which he has also shown at the senior bowl practices by the way(all shown on TV), he also has a swim move.

From Walterfootball.com - "Plethora of rush moves"
From CBSsports - "Good arm-over(AKA Swim), spin and outside-in change-up moves."

 

[joeshmo]

Cards web page has Schofield as 6 '2" 231 lbs. At the Senior Bowl wieigh-in, VM came in at 6' 2 5/8 & 237 lbs so he is slightly bigger at this time. Both will probably be in the 240 range in the next couple of years.

Scho was 240 at the Senior Bowl. Lott stated he would easily be 250. Scho actually lost weight not being able to workout properly after his injury.

But I think the point remains, even if Miller is a good prospect and you also think Scho is a good prospect do you take a similar player in Miller at #5. They both play the same position in our D most likely. Making Houston and Aldon probably the better fits for our defense at this point in time.

 

[Cardiac]

The last time the Steelers took an outside linebacker in the first round was 1991.

Yep, I misread your initial post and thought you meant all LB's. Now that I have read your post again I realize that you just used the Steelers as an example and stated a lot of the great 3-4 teams don't draft OLB's in rd 1. See below for enough examples to refute your assumption.

Suggs is a 1st rd pick for the Ravens as was Boulware in 97.

Spencer and Ware for the Cowboys are 1st rd picks.

Merriman 1st rd pick for the Chargers.

Clay Matthews for the Packers. AJ Hawk was listed as an OLB when the Pack took him with the 5th overall pick.

Pace was a 1st rd pick for the Cards and is a OLB for the Jets, he was drafted as a DE however.

One last thing, spend less time on here chatting until you update the Mock on your site. Last one was done in November?

 

[az jam]

But I think the point remains, even if Miller is a good prospect and you also think Scho is a good prospect do you take a similar player in Miller at #5. They both play the same position in our D most likely. Making Houston and Aldon probably the better fits for our defense at this point in time.

That is a very good point. You also need to take someone at #5 that is not a reach. Both Houston & Aldon would be reaches. CB Petterson or DE/DT Dareus are both considered top 5 players and would be excellent choices. So would WR AJ Green. Its early in the draft evaluation process. The Combine will also impact the rankings.

 

[NFLRoughDraft]

Yep, I misread your initial post and thought you meant all LB's. Now that I have read your post again I realize that you just used the Steelers as an example and stated a lot of the great 3-4 teams don't draft OLB's in rd 1. See below for enough examples to refute your assumption.

Suggs is a 1st rd pick for the Ravens as was Boulware in 97.

Spencer and Ware for the Cowboys are 1st rd picks.

Merriman 1st rd pick for the Chargers.

Clay Matthews for the Packers. AJ Hawk was listed as an OLB when the Pack took him with the 5th overall pick.

Pace was a 1st rd pick for the Cards and is a OLB for the Jets, he was drafted as a DE however.

One last thing, spend less time on here chatting until you update the Mock on your site. Last one was done in November?

Yep waiting for the rest of Senior Bowl week to play itself out before updating the mock.

I'm not trying to argue with you about the outside linebackers either. I just said alot of 3-4 teams don't think it's worth it to spend high first round draft choices on pass rushers. Naming five guys over the past ten years doesn't really say anything about that. How many of those guys were top 10 picks? And Hawk certainly doesn't count. He was listed as an outside linebacker because the Packers played a 4-3 when they drafted him.

Nothing wrong with a little spirited debate though.

 

[NFLRoughDraft]

No way. Schofield would have easily been a 1st-round pick last year. When he went down, talk was that he was the best pass-rushing DE/OLB out there. He was crushing every tackle in the Senior Bowl practices, and pretty much couldn't be stopped. He was also bigger than Miller is now.

I'm going to watch some Miller videos now, if I can find them, to see if I should revise my opinion.

I think you're misremembering. Schofield went into East-West Shrine Game week as a late round prospect that really had never played linebacker before. He had a great week of practice and an excellent game which started a buzz about him.

Scouts were impressed that he made such a quick adjustment to the position that he started to get into the conversation as a second/third round possibility.

He went to Senior Bowl week (as a late injury replacement if I remember correctly) and had a good day/day and a half of practice and then blew out his knee.

I don't know anyone, however, that thought he was a surefire first round pick let alone best pass rusher in the draft.

 

[Pariah]

For what it's worth, "Von Miller" is a name that sounds like will be a success in the NFL. Jus' Sayin'.

 

[Cardiac]

Yep waiting for the rest of Senior Bowl week to play itself out before updating the mock.

I'm not trying to argue with you about the outside linebackers either. I just said alot of 3-4 teams don't think it's worth it to spend high first round draft choices on pass rushers. Naming five guys over the past ten years doesn't really say anything about that. How many of those guys were top 10 picks? And Hawk certainly doesn't count. He was listed as an outside linebacker because the Packers played a 4-3 when they drafted him.

Nothing wrong with a little spirited debate though.

Quit being lazy dude, November, really?

Spencer was a #11 pick, Merriman #5, Suggs #9.

There are some cliches about the draft that are factual, come that are perception and some that become absolete due to the evolution of the game.

OC,OG's & SS are almost never taken in the 1st rd and especially in the top 10 is factual.

Until recently FS's weren't taken high in the draft, this is evolution of the game.

OLB's not taken in the 1st rd by 3-4 teams is a mix of evolution and perception IMHO.

Taking a QB at #1 or the top 5 will give you Ryan Leaf, Heath Shuler and Tim Couch, so it's better to draft a Tom Brady in the 6th rd, this is also perception.

I think there are enough examples to put aside the thought that the Cards won't spend a #5 pick on an OLBer. Pass rushers are gold and we see DE's over drafted every year. With the amount of teams now employing a 3-4 D the supply of OLB's will diminish so the demand will increase.

As you said, nothing wrong with a spirited debate. Now update your mock because geeks like me need new mocks like crack addicts need a fix.

 

[Cardiac]

I think you're misremembering. Schofield went into East-West Shrine Game week as a late round prospect that really had never played linebacker before. He had a great week of practice and an excellent game which started a buzz about him.

Scouts were impressed that he made such a quick adjustment to the position that he started to get into the conversation as a second/third round possibility.

He went to Senior Bowl week (as a late injury replacement if I remember correctly) and had a good day/day and a half of practice and then blew out his knee.

I don't know anyone, however, that thought he was a surefire first round pick let alone best pass rusher in the draft.

This is what I recall as well. He was moving up draft boards with a chance to get into the 1st rd.

 

[Cardiac]

For what it's worth, "Von Miller" is a name that sounds like will be a success in the NFL. Jus' Sayin'.

Okay, now I am sold on Von Miller. Is it too soon to give him a nickname or does Von Miller stand on its own?

 

[Pariah]

Okay, now I am sold on Von Miller. Is it too soon to give him a nickname or does Von Miller stand on its own?

Von Miller stands on it's own. Giving him a nickname would be like putting the Mona Lisa in a neon frame.

 

[Cardiac]

Von Miller stands on it's own. Giving him a nickname would be like putting the Mona Lisa in a neon frame.

How about a Velvet Elvis painting in the Mona Lisa's frame?

 

[Duckjake]

The only thing that is sad is Joey Porter's play. He didn't have a sack in 10 of the 14 games he played in this season and you are fretting about replacing him? Not only can he not get to the QB, but he is an absolute joke in run support as well. If anything I could see Schofield getting moved over to LOLB if we draft a Quinn or VM and stick them at ROLB. Pitt's got Harrison at ROLB and Woodley at LOLB, so there's no reason we couldn't do the same. Look at our OLB's: Porter, Haggans, Schofield, and hopefully Will Davis. We've got two guys on their way out of the league, a young player in schofield that showed promise this season, and another young guy in Will Davis that hasn't shown much more than being a backup to spell the starters (when he is healthy). If we have an option to draft an elite player at the second most important position in a 3-4 defense and one that we just so happen to be lacking talent and youth at, we better jump all over the opportunity.

You missed the point completely. I was saying in essence that it sucked that Porter played so poorly that we are talking about using the $5 pick in the draft to replace him.

I also think that trying to play Scofield and Miller as our OLBs would be a disaster. Our D is already too small and gets run over until they get in the redzone and put the big bodies in for goal line defense.

I'd rather have guys like Sam Acho or Jeremy Beal with 2nd round picks than Miller with the $5.

 

[juza76]

You missed the point completely. I was saying in essence that it sucked that Porter played so poorly that we are talking about using the $5 pick in the draft to replace him.

I also think that trying to play Scofield and Miller as our OLBs would be a disaster. Our D is already too small and gets run over until they get in the redzone and put the big bodies in for goal line defense.

I'd rather have guys like Sam Acho or Jeremy Beal with 2nd round picks than Miller with the $5.

beal was one of the most unimpressive player at senior bowl.he will slide to round 5 or 6

 

[Hypothesis]

beal was one of the most unimpressive player at senior bowl.he will slide to round 5 or 6

Beal will not slide to round 5 or 6. He'll be a solid 2nd rounder. A poor performance this week is not going to kill his stock.

 

[Duckjake]

Beal will not slide to round 5 or 6. He'll be a solid 2nd rounder. A poor performance this week is not going to kill his stock.

Especially since the game isn't until tomorrow.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'm reading a lot of the same knocks on Miller that I read when Suggs was in the draft. Being an A&M fan, I have seen Miller play a lot. And, my assessment of him is almost identical to the opinion I had of Suggs.

Von Miller is going to average about 10 sacks a season in the NFL and make multiple Pro Bowls. Whoever drafts him is going to be very happy.

Suggs was a lot bigger though. He weighed in around 260 and was 6'5.

Probably not as fast from a 40 yard dash perspective, but Suggs was also stronger too.

 

[Chopper0080]

Beal will not slide to round 5 or 6. He'll be a solid 2nd rounder. A poor performance this week is not going to kill his stock.

I see Beal dropping to the end of the 2nd beginning of the 3rd after the combine. From what I have seen from him I believe that he is a better football player than athlete, and I would not be surprised if he struggled at the combine. He just isn't a player with great measurables and that can hurt the value of players, especially tweeners.

I would love it if he was around in the 3rd, and I think that he will be a solid NFL player at OLB in the 3-4.

(Also, if you like Beal, take a look at KJ Wright out of Mississippi St. Similar type of player that projects to either OLB or SILB in the 3-4)

 

[ajcardfan]

Suggs was a lot bigger though. He weighed in around 260 and was 6'5.

Probably not as fast from a 40 yard dash perspective, but Suggs was also stronger too.

But the argument on Suggs was that he was too small to play DE in our 4-3. Miller is going to play a 3-4 OLB which makes his size less of an issue. Suggs was just too talented to pass on when you consider our defense had set all time lows for sacks in the previous two seasons. I would hope we wouldn't make the same mistake with Miller. But, honestly, when it is all said and done, I wouldn't be surprised if he was gone by #5.

With guys like that, you find ways to move them around and turn them loose to make plays.

 

[football karma]

Okay, now I am sold on Von Miller. Is it too soon to give him a nickname or does Von Miller stand on its own?

3rd and long becomes "Miller time"

 

[football karma]

Suggs was a lot bigger though. He weighed in around 260 and was 6'5.

Probably not as fast from a 40 yard dash perspective, but Suggs was also stronger too.

Suggs isn't 6'5". he is 6'2" -- but he is 260, so he is stout.