SEASON OPENER- Mavericks @ Suns Game Thread

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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hcsilla said:
I agree. The game ending was pretty much like against the Spurs.

There is too much on Steve Nash's shoulders. I was surprised that the Suns still do not have any single game play for Marion.

and it totally showed. he cannot get his own shot. offensively he's at his best only in the open court and when his defender gets lost (like when teams have to double down on amare and rotate among the three point shooters), and that's not gonna happen this year. i think we see marion's numbers, offensively, even take a dip this year b/c of the extra attention that will be paid him.

gonna be a long season folks. strap in for the long haul. i don't think it's gonna be pretty.
 

Suns_fan69

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The only set play they seem to run for Marion is that little slip screen that they also used to run for Amare last year. Dallas read it perfectly at the end there and it resulted in a costly turnover. Other than that most of marions touches seem to flow off the high pick with Nash.
 

jbeecham

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Evil Ash said:
BTW why does violet palmer still have a job?

The Marion grab non-call was just a joke and it changed the game

I thought it was Dick Bavetta that blew that call and about 4 more towards the end of regulation when Dallas overcame the 17 pt deficit in 7 minutes. You're right that it completely changed the momentum of the game (it didn't help that Dirk hit 3 3's in a row either).
 
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arthurracoon

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reader

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Missed the game, tough loss, but at least to a worthy opponent. Hoping for improvement in the next game ... another game I will not see. I believe the root cause was those orange unis.
 

az1965

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Tough loss, after I thought we had it in our pocket leading by 17 in 4th... $$%##!! :mad:
 

Yuma

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newfan101 said:
No Kurt Thomas down the stretch.

No substitutions in the last 7 minutes as a 15 point lead melted away.

Only 8 guys got significant minutes.

Eddie House sparks the team, gets hot, then immediately gets pulled and never gets another minute.




This was a horrible coaching job. Horrible.

I agree. You had a hot rotation that was pulling away from the Mavs and had increased the score by 17 points, and then the next unit started losing the lead. Why not cycle the hot unit back in? I know in the Lakers Showtime years, if Magic sat down and the second unit took off, the coach would milk the play of the second unit for all it was worth. Sometimes Magic didn't even get back into the game. I think the same situation applied here. :mad:
 

Errntknght

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Suns_fan69,"The only set play they seem to run for Marion is that little slip screen that they also used to run for Amare last year."

The difference is that Amare usually stayed long enough to make the pick while Marion almost invariably slips away before the pick takes place, so it's not hard for Dallas to read it. The only time he stays is when he gets boxed in and can't slip out. Faking a pick like that is a useful counter to the pick & roll/pop but if you fake it every time it's not worth much.

I'm always surprised when people say the team doesn't run plays for Marion because they don't run plays for anyone except for the variants of the high pick. The only other thing resembling a play is Diaw at a high post and someone accidentally cutting off him. Sometimes Nash turns the pass to him into a 'give and go'.

With Nash on the floor they don't need tons of plays but they at least need to have Marion, Bell and Jones cutting so they get something other than long jumpers on a fairly regular basis. It probably hurt to have such a successful preseason - if they'd gotten their collective butt kicked regularly D'Antoni might have seen that his perimeter only offense wasn't enough.

I disagree that the team is just short on talent w/o Amare. We could sure use a big with some kind of low post game but with the middle open you can compensate by cutting people through it frequently.

Oh they'll win games because they have several good shooters and Nash will play his heart out but they're not going to be nearly as good as they could be with a more intelligent offense. If they had that and Amare they might even have a prayer of beating SA.
 

Mike Olbinski

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az1965 said:
Tough loss, after I thought we had it in our pocket leading by 17 in 4th... $$%##!! :mad:


I know, I'm depressed and it was only 1 game...

Mike
 

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You guys need to chill out. There were a couple reasons we lost this game.

Steve Nash shot way too much at the end.
Shawn Marion all of a sudden couldn't guard Nowitzki at the end of regulation.
Nash isn't a good defender to begin with, but in both overtimes he had to back off even more to avoid fouling out--which is why Terry went off.

It's only game 1 and we had a 17 point lead against the Mavs in the 4th quarter. We just need to sustain that momentum for only 10 more minutes--it's not that hard to do. This is still a new team and there was A LOT that was good in that game. Being 0-1 doesn't mean our season is ruined.
 

coyotesareback

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You are right Chap it is only one game. These guys you can tell still are not used to playing together causing lots of confusion. Even in their infant stages of playing together this team was just a few minutes short of blowing out one of the wests best teams. Give the team a few weeks to gel before we go crazy here they will be pretty good. And for the record the officiating towards the end of that game really seemed unusual, did any one see Cuban slip the refs any cash or anything? haha But it really seemed like they did not want the suns to continue winning by so much so the whistles start blowing but strangely only when dallas has the ball hhhmmmmm???? bad officials'

For the record Dallas should be real proud it tooked 2 overtimes for them to beat our team without our best player (amare), and (marion) I beleive lasted about 4 seconds into the second OT. And we still had a shot to win oh well sometimes the ball does not bounce your way.

I am still excited because face it folks Dallas will beat most teams in the west and we are right there with them.
 

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coyotesareback said:
You are right Chap it is only one game. These guys you can tell still are not used to playing together causing lots of confusion. Even in their infant stages of playing together this team was just a few minutes short of blowing out one of the wests best teams. Give the team a few weeks to gel before we go crazy here they will be pretty good. And for the record the officiating towards the end of that game really seemed unusual, did any one see Cuban slip the refs any cash or anything? haha But it really seemed like they did not want the suns to continue winning by so much so the whistles start blowing but strangely only when dallas has the ball hhhmmmmm???? bad officials'

For the record Dallas should be real proud it tooked 2 overtimes for them to beat our team without our best player (amare), and (marion) I beleive lasted about 4 seconds into the second OT. And we still had a shot to win oh well sometimes the ball does not bounce your way.

I am still excited because face it folks Dallas will beat most teams in the west and we are right there with them.

We were very lucky to beat you guys. . . the Suns will be okay. But sometimes you play down to your opponent (& I'm not saying we are better than you guys, but if you state that we should have beat you easily then it must mean that you think we are better than you in our current state) & a sign of a good team is being able to pull out victories against teams you should beat even when you have a bad game. . and up until 7 minutes left in the 4th. . the Mavs had a really bad game.

That being said. . we were REALLY LUCKY to pull it out.
 

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greensborohill said:
We were very lucky to beat you guys. . . the Suns will be okay. But sometimes you play down to your opponent (& I'm not saying we are better than you guys, but if you state that we should have beat you easily then it must mean that you think we are better than you in our current state) & a sign of a good team is being able to pull out victories against teams you should beat even when you have a bad game. . and up until 7 minutes left in the 4th. . the Mavs had a really bad game.

That being said. . we were REALLY LUCKY to pull it out.

First of all, I definitely don't think Dallas should have beaten us easily. And I think the only real advantage Dallas has on the current Suns team without Amare is Dampier and Diop, which, in reality, isn't that big of an advantage since both players are relatively hopeless, especially at the speed we play.

I thought this was a VERY evenly matched game with 2 evenly matched teams, that's why I was so surprised by the 17-point lead. If anything, regardless of the loss, the Suns should be mentioned in the same breath as Dallas when it comes to their chances this year.

And can I just say that it is no exaggeration when people say Dirk Nowitzki can't play defense. He was just terrible out there! Lucky for him, he's nearly unstoppable on offense.
 

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Dallas 111, Phoenix 108, 2OT
AP - Nov 2, 2:38 am EST

By BOB BAUM, AP Sports Writer.
November 2, 2005

PHOENIX (AP) -- Coach Avery Johnson saw a bit of himself in his Dallas Mavericks on an opening night that didn't end until Wednesday morning.

Dirk Nowitzki scored 28 points and grabbed 15 rebounds and the Mavericks erased a 17-point fourth-quarter deficit to beat the Phoenix Suns 111-108 in double-overtime.

"If I was out there on that court tonight, I wouldn't quit,'' Johnson said. ``I think this team really wants to have some of my personality. They talk to me a lot about that, and it's kind of flattering. But when you really see it, man, these guys, they battled.''

The late-starting season-opener Tuesday night ended just after midnight, local time.

Nowitzki sank a pair of long jumpers and Keith Van Horn made a 3-pointer in the second overtime. After Van Horn made one of two free throws with 23.7 seconds to play, Steve Nash missed what would have been a game-tying 3-pointer at the final buzzer.

"That was a special game,'' Nowitzki said. ``To lose this one in double OT would have been really, really tough. To grind it out in the end was great.''

Jason Terry added 23 points for Dallas, including the game-tying layup at the end of the first overtime. Josh Howard had 16 points and 11 rebounds. Van Horn scored 15 and Marquis Daniels 13.

Nash scored 30, the same he averaged against his former Dallas team in last season's Western Conference semifinals. He added nine assists and eight rebounds, but had six turnovers.

Raja Bell had 18 points in his first game for the Suns. Shawn Marion had 13 points and 16 rebounds, but was just 4-for-12 shooting overall. James Jones, another Phoenix newcomer, scored 13, including 3-of-6 3-pointers.

Dallas trailed 83-66 with 7 1/2 minutes to play in regulation and 101-96 with 36 seconds left in the first overtime.

"We let them back in it both times, and it hurts,'' Nash said, "but I think that's going too happen when you have a new team and so little familiarity with that situation. You know, these are growing pains we're going to have to go through to become a good team.''

Phoenix was up 83-66 after a 9-0 run capped by Marion's dunk with 7:44 to play in regulation.

"That's when I started thinking, and that hurt us,'' Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said.


Marion and four reserves had built the big lead, but the coach decided to put Nash back in with the idea of closing it out. Instead, the rally ensued and Nash was weary at the end.

Nowitzki sank three 3-pointers in a row in a 21-3 outburst that forced overtime, then Marquis Daniels sank a 3-pointer with 29 seconds to go in the first overtime, setting up Jason Terry's layup at the buzzer that tied it at 101-101 to force the second OT.

But Van Horn made two free throws and a 3-pointer and the Suns turned cold from outside and sloppy with the ball.

"I think we just took a deep breath at the wrong time,'' Bell said. "I think we just let our guard down, and they're a team you shouldn't do that against.''

Nowitzki's third 3-pointer of the run cut the lead to 86-85 with 1:44 to play, then Terry's layup put Dallas ahead 87-86 with 1:21 to go. Marion scored inside and was fouled but missed the free throw to give Phoenix an 88-87 lead with a minute remaining in regulation.

Terry followed with another layup to give Dallas a 89-88 lead. Nash missed a fadeaway, then Terry sank one of two free throws to put Dallas up 90-88 with 15.3 seconds to go.

Nash was fouled by Howard on a drive, and made both free throws to tie it at 90-90 with 4.4 seconds left in regulation. Nowitzki missed a tough jumper over Marion at the buzzer to force overtime.

Van Horn and Nowitzki credited the play of Darrell Armstrong, who brought energy to the floor when Terry and Devin Harris were both in foul trouble.

"He was really the key to winning this game,'' Van Horn said. "He came out and really changed the game defensively. I think we all fed off his energy.''

It was a rematch of the teams that staged the high-scoring Western Conference semifinal series last season. But the Suns had just two starters, and four players overall, back from the team that won an NBA-best 62 regular-season games and lost to San Antonio in the conference finals.

A fifth returnee, all-star Amare Stoudemire, is out for at least four months while recovering from knee surgery.

Notes
Dallas C Pavel Podkolzin underwent surgery Tuesday to repair damage to his right foot and ankle. He is expected to be sidelined three to four months. ... Stoudemire, out for at least four months, did not attend the game. .... The Suns were 6-of-17 on 3s; Dallas 7-of-15, 5-for-8 after the third quarter. ... The crowd of 17,961 was 461 shy of a sellout.
 

JS22

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"That's when I started thinking, and that hurt us,'' Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said.

This is why I can't dislike him as a coach, even though I hated the lineups he had out there last night. Atleast he is able to admit when he screws up. (Why take House out when he was clearly hot....only to never bring him back in. He should have been put in there during one of the OT's when Phoenix couldnt buy a shot. That's why he was signed!)

Waking up this morning, I'm not as pissed. It's just one game out of 82. I just hope Amare can make it back sooner rather than later.
 

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WastedFate said:
"That's when I started thinking, and that hurt us,'' Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said.

This is why I can't dislike him as a coach, even though I hated the lineups he had out there last night. Atleast he is able to admit when he screws up. (Why take House out when he was clearly hot....only to never bring him back in. He should have been put in there during one of the OT's when Phoenix couldnt buy a shot. That's why he was signed!)

Waking up this morning, I'm not as pissed. It's just one game out of 82. I just hope Amare can make it back sooner rather than later.

Besides, don't the Suns ALWAYS lose their first game of the season? I'd rather it be to the Mavs than the Hawks. :D
 

SweetD

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Chaplin said:
Besides, don't the Suns ALWAYS lose their first game of the season? I'd rather it be to the Mavs than the Hawks. :D

This is true but normally it is against the Clippers.
 

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Chaplin said:
And can I just say that it is no exaggeration when people say Dirk Nowitzki can't play defense. He was just terrible out there! Lucky for him, he's nearly unstoppable on offense.

You can say what you want, but any PF would look stupid trying to defend Steve Nash. I'm not completly sure why they switched every P & R. But Dallas as a team got the stops needed to win in the end.

Just from a pure awareness stand point Dirk looked much better than before. Last play of the game up three, he gets switched on Nash. Instead of positioning himself at/around/behind the 3 point arc, he extends his defense passed it (which in actuallity is pretty damn ballzy given that Nash had been blowing by him with ease all game),unlike what Jason Terry did last year in game 6 when he stayed below the line. Nash gets by him after yo-yoing with the ball for a few seconds. . and Nowitzki recovers to contest.

I'll take Dirk on D. . he'll probably always be unjustly accused of poor D regardless of how much he's improved it, but as a Mavs fan I know he's come a long way.
 

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greensborohill said:
You can say what you want, but any PF would look stupid trying to defend Steve Nash. I'm not completly sure why they switched every P & R. But Dallas as a team got the stops needed to win in the end.

I'll take Dirk on D. . he'll probably always be unjustly accused of poor D regardless of how much he's improved it, but as a Mavs fan I know he's come a long way.

I certainly wasn't talking about Dirk on Nash--that was a special situation and anyone with any intelligence at all would know that a great defensive player like Tim Duncan would have problems with Steve Nash up high.

I was referring to all the other times he was around, mostly on switches with Raja Bell, James Jones or Boris Diaw. And Shawn Marion in the 4th quarter.

He was just awful last night. For Dallas' sake, I hope that doesn't continue.
 

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Chaplin said:
I certainly wasn't talking about Dirk on Nash--that was a special situation and anyone with any intelligence at all would know that a great defensive player like Tim Duncan would have problems with Steve Nash up high.

I was referring to all the other times he was around, mostly on switches with Raja Bell, James Jones or Boris Diaw. And Shawn Marion in the 4th quarter.

He was just awful last night. For Dallas' sake, I hope that doesn't continue.

I have to disagree. . . from someone who watches almost every Maverick game throughout the season. . . he's an above average defender.
 

Chaplin

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greensborohill said:
I have to disagree. . . from someone who watches almost every Maverick game throughout the season. . . he's an above average defender.

I'm considering using that as my signature. :p
 

ASUCHRIS

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Chaplin said:
I'm considering using that as my signature. :p

Talk about losing all credibility with one statement...
 
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