Seattle Seahawks @ Arizona Cardinals Pre Game Thread. 12/01/24-12/07/24

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

MHJ and his people acted like he was just going to walk in on day one and be a pro WR because of his dad, etc. Had a whole "method to his madness" type of approach. Might have been better off just coming in like a regular rookie WR and not acting like he was above all the routine NFL stuff that rookies go through.

Meh you’re only talking prep for the underwear Olympics which has zero impact on how they play. We have little to no insight into his prep for the seasons and from what I recall all reports were that he was skipping the combine stuff to literally prepare for the season. Obviously he’s underwhelmed, but none of us have any firsthand realistic understanding of why.

 

[Proximo]

I think it's by design to help Murray.

Is it helping him though? We had a more explosive offense under Kliff.

I think we are too conservative on offense.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The Texans had the easiest schedule last year in the history of modern sports. And where are they this year? They’ve been pretty underwhelming in a pathetic division. Too many on this board just don’t understand what the Cardinal goal of what “sustained success” means. They took this team down to the studs last year, and the goal was to rebuild it in a manner that will produce long term success. That is a PROCESS that requires NO shortcuts. Yes, it would be great if the Cardinals made the playoffs this year. But, not at the expense of derailing the long term vision that MOJG have. We’re ahead of the plan, but the plan was never to be finished in year 2. This team has plenty of holes still, so there’s still much more drafting & developing before we get to the point where we’re practically suicidal when we lose on the road by a point to a 10-2 team. Cardinals need to stay the course. If we make the playoffs…great! It’ll be a short lived playoff. And if we don’t, we continue the plan.

At .500 I don’t think we are ahead of the plan. If anything I think it’s on schedule. At 6-4 I could understand people thinking we were ahead of schedule. But that’s in a very clear 20-20 rear view mirror now.

I also think many here are being deluded by being in the division race in terms of feeling like we are ahead of schedule. The reality is we are in a mediocre division this year. In other divisions we wouldn’t be in the race. We just be a mediocre .500 team. On schedule for year two of a (hopefully) successful rebuild.

 

[Covert Rain]

All evidence to the contrary--see Cheese's post. Unless it's a "Yeah, he outranks Kyler on X, Y, Z stats, playoff experience, etc, but he REALLY doesn't LOOK as good as Kyler" bunk argument. C'mon, man!

It's possible we have already seen Kyler's ceiling. For the past two seasons I have been consistently saying this has to be the year for Kyler to prove he can be better. If it doesn't happen this season it's not going to. This is the best Kyler is going to be.

 

[football karma]

I just don't agree with this idea of QB by proxy, as if Kyler is just there to run what Petzing says and the result is based on Petzing getting the call perfect or not.

not what i am saying.

if you run 16% of your plays in 13 personnel, 30% in 12: thats not exactly a down the field kinda passing formation

im saying philosophically, its a running oriented, short to medium passing offense.

 

[Ronin]

PHNX Cardinals

@PHNX_Cardinals
·
1m

LB and team captain Kyzir White: “We know what’s at stake. This ain’t no time to play around or to play games. We feel like last week we let it slip. This is a big game for our future.”

 

[BritCard]

Kind of defeats the purpose of having an OC, no?

The OC is writing the script, the QB still has to perform it.

This needs more context. Winston yards is getting Winston yards because he is having to play catchup with the opposing offense. Is Jameis passing for 350+ yards if Denver or New Orleans isn’t racking up 30+ offensive points? I don’t think so.

Would a 300+ yard/2 TD performance be cool? Sure, but it also depends on the context of the game. I hope it’s not because Seattle is scoring on our defense at will & we have to play catchup. I just want a clean, efficient game even if it means less yards.

QB's have 300 yard 2 TD games all the time without playing catch up, it's a pretty low bar target TBH. But sure, I'll settle more Kyler being dominant in a win.

What I don't want to see if another 215 yard 1 TD game where we score 18 points.

 

[BritCard]

not what i am saying.

if you run 16% of your plays in 13 personnel, 30% in 12: thats not exactly a down the field kinda passing formation

im saying philosophically, its a running oriented, short to medium passing offense.

We're still in 11 49.6% of the time.

I'm not even talking about explosives, I just want us to hit the 10-15 yarders.

 

[DVontel]

The OC is writing the script, the QB still has to perform it.



QB's have 300 yard 2 TD games all the time without playing catch up, it's a pretty low bar target TBH. But sure, I'll settle more Kyler being dominant in a win.

What I don't want to see if another 215 yard 1 TD game where we score 18 points.

All the time? Josh Allen has exceeded that statline once this year & he’s arguably the MVP candidate. Goff’s team has one loss & he has only done that once. Hurts’ team has two losses & he hasn’t even done that once this year.

 

[BirdGangThing]

We're still in 11 49.6% of the time.

I'm not even talking about explosives, I just want us to hit the 10-15 yarders.

we moved the ball just fine - till we got in the redzone - that's all we need to fix

 

[Crimson Warrior]

At .500 I don’t think we are ahead of the plan. If anything I think it’s on schedule. At 6-4 I could understand people thinking we were ahead of schedule. But that’s in a very clear 20-20 rear view mirror now.

I also think many here are being deluded by being in the division race in terms of feeling like we are ahead of schedule. The reality is we are in a mediocre division this year. In other divisions we wouldn’t be in the race. We just be a mediocre .500 team. On schedule for year two of a (hopefully) successful rebuild.

That's not unreasonable, but I think we also deserve a little rhythm for our challenging schedule.

 

[oaken1]

Meh you’re only talking prep for the underwear Olympics which has zero impact on how they play. We have little to no insight into his prep for the seasons and from what I recall all reports were that he was skipping the combine stuff to literally prepare for the season. Obviously he’s underwhelmed, but none of us have any firsthand realistic understanding of why.

He played for a powerhouse in college and in most games was schemed wide open against lesser competition.
he gets to the NFL and has to face the very best DB's in the game...and they are older, stronger, more physical, and more experienced than he is.
its not uncommon for a WR to come into the league and have to learn how to deal with DB's manhandling them and banging them around.
IMO, Marv just needs to get a little stronger...and find his Dawg, that..."get the fudge off of me thats my gad damn ball"
as JG would say it...his "Killer"

 

[oaken1]

All the time? Josh Allen has exceeded that statline once this year & he’s arguably the MVP candidate. Goff’s team has one loss & he has only done that once. Hurts’ team has two losses & he hasn’t even done that once this year.

well he meant on Madden

 

[Chopper0080]

Is it helping him though? We had a more explosive offense under Kliff.

I think we are too conservative on offense.

The complaint with Kliff's offense at the end is that is asked too much of Kyler.

 

[oaken1]

somebody asked about when we will not be considered over achieving.

Pretty simple... back in september when the schedule dropped...every single prognosticator who is not a diehard Cards fan listed us as underdogs...in every single game. every one. we didnt start the season favored in any of them.
Start the season favored in at least half your games and anything can happen...so its no longer over achieving...unless you win like...15

 

[Chopper0080]

He played for a powerhouse in college and in most games was schemed wide open against lesser competition.
he gets to the NFL and has to face the very best DB's in the game...and they are older, stronger, more physical, and more experienced than he is.
its not uncommon for a WR to come into the league and have to learn how to deal with DB's manhandling them and banging them around.
IMO, Marv just needs to get a little stronger...and find his Dawg, that..."get the fudge off of me thats my gad damn ball"
as JG would say it...his "Killer"

This is where the coaching deficiency appears IMO. This should be the focus in camp.

 

[oaken1]

This is where the coaching deficiency appears IMO. This should be the focus in camp.

agree. Marv seems to be a really nice kid.
He cant be that on the gridiron. Nice kids get bullied

 

[ajcardfan]

We're still in 11 49.6% of the time.

I'm not even talking about explosives, I just want us to hit the 10-15 yarders.

We're a TE based offense more than any other team in the league. When you constantly have as many TEs, or more, as WRs in the games of course they will get a lot of targets and there will not be as many explosive plays by the nature of the position. We can look at Dortch and Zay Jones as huge disappointments, but honestly, how much opportunity do they really have? The 3rd and 4th WRs are less in the game plan by design.

 

[kerouac9]

if you run 16% of your plays in 13 personnel, 30% in 12: thats not exactly a down the field kinda passing formation

Where did this stat come from? I don't see it in PFR.

All the time? Josh Allen has exceeded that statline once this year & he’s arguably the MVP candidate. Goff’s team has one loss & he has only done that once. Hurts’ team has two losses & he hasn’t even done that once this year.

Kyler's average game this year is 216.9 yards and a TD with another 35.7 rushing yards tacked on. That's bang on with the league average, although the average team scores 1.4 TDs per game.

 

[Ronin]

Kyle Odegard

@Kyle_Odegard
·
32m

A quarterback's passer rating if he throws the ball into the ground every play: 39.6
Passer rating allowed by Garrett Williams over the past three games: 27.1

 

[kerouac9]

Kyle Odegard
@Kyle_Odegard
·
32m

A quarterback's passer rating if he throws the ball into the ground every play: 39.6
Passer rating allowed by Garrett Williams over the past three games: 27.1

Odegard’s uber-regard for Garrett Williams is a fun subplot to follow.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Odegard’s uber-regard for Garrett Williams is a fun subplot to follow.

you're not a rabbit fan?

 

[ajcardfan]

Surely this is the game where our secondary actually comes up with an interception or two. It's been a LONG time since we have had a pick by a CB or S. For all our improved play in the secondary, it's the turnovers that are still lacking.

 

[football karma]

Where did this stat come from? I don't see it in PFR.

Offense Personnel Tendency | SumerSports

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[cardpa]

It's possible we have already seen Kyler's ceiling. For the past two seasons I have been consistently saying this has to be the year for Kyler to prove he can be better. If it doesn't happen this season it's not going to. This is the best Kyler is going to be.

I made this statement when we drafted Murray, high floor, low ceiling. I think the Murray we're seeing now is as good as it's going to get. There is a lot of mentioning of Murray's stats back in his first couple years. One has to remember he was in Kingsbury's offense which ran more 10 and 11 personnel and was based on throwing the ball more often. Now the offense is predicated on running more and taking the ball out of Murray's hands more often. I think this staff has recognized the deficiencies in Murray's game and have decided what we have now is about the best we are going to get out of him so let's build a offense designed to not ask Murray to do things he is either incapable of or struggles with.