SF@ARI - Heroes and Goats

[82CardsGrad]

Graves drafted Massie

Damn he was a good GM!


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[BigRedArk]

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1. Bruce Arians, Head Coach. I am not a huge fan of Bruce Arians the guy. I wasn't a huge fan of the Bruce Arians hiring. But I'm a huge, huge fan of Bruce Arians the head coach right now. He has complete buy-in from a team that had every reason in the world to take a week off. Amazing coaching.

Just curious. Why aren't you a fan of Bruce Arians the guy?

 

[crisper57]

Just curious. Why aren't you a fan of Bruce Arians the guy?

His taste in headgear?

 

[CardLogic]

if you are going to hate on minter, then sk also deserves your admiration for the likes of john brown. It evens out.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

 

[Chopper0080]

So I will start at pick 38 and list rest of players taken after that point in 2nd rd:

(38) Manti Te'0
(39) Jets: Geno Smith
(40) 49ers (from Titans): Tank Carradine
(41) Bills: Robert Woods,
(42) Raiders (from Dolphins): Menelik Watson
(43) Buccaneers: Johnathan Banks
(44) Panthers: Kawaan Short
(46) Bills (from Rams): Kiko Alonso ***Way better than Minter.
(47) Cowboys: Gavin Escobar,
(48) Steelers: Le'Veon Bell
(49) Giants: Johnathan Hankins
(50) Bears: Jon Bostic
(51) Redskins: David Amerson
(52) Patriots (from Vikings): Jamie Collins
(53) Bengals: Margus Hunt
(54) Dolphins (from Colts): Jamar Taylor
(55) 49ers (from Packers): Vance McDonald
(56) Ravens (from Seahawks): Arthur Brown
(57) Texans: D.J. Swearinger
(58) Broncos: Montee Ball
(59) Patriots: Aaron Dobson
(60) Falcons: Robert Alford
(61) Packers (from 49ers): Eddie Lacy
(62) Seahawks (from Ravens): Christine Michael

I would take Short, Alonso, Bell, Collins, Ball, and Lacy right now. I also believe in Arthur Brown, but he hasn't shown much yet. However, in all fairness, I only had Brown, Collins, and Alonso ranked higher.

 

[TJ]

I think that this is the problem. "Seem" doesn't actually enter into the reality.

Jonathan CooperGNorth Carolina Not looking so good
Kevin MinterLBLouisiana State Not looking so good
Tyrann MathieuDBLouisiana State Looking pretty good
Alex OkaforDETexas Not looking so good
Earl WatfordGJames Madison Not looking so good
Stepfan TaylorRBStanford Not looking so good
Ryan SwopeWRTexas A&M Disaster
Andre EllingtonRBClemson Looking very good
D.C. JeffersonTERutgers Out of the NFL

2014's draft class is way, way too early to tell. Getting two starters out of a draft is really good, but not being able to get any quality depth out of a draft class is pretty brutal.

Good drafters get two starters and three depth players out of every class.

Also, if you're going to swing and miss, then you should be swinging for the fences. Missing on a guy like Minter is like bunting right to the pitcher.

2 starters = Matthieu and Ellington

3 depth guys = Cooper (who'll be starting very soon, IMO), Watford, and Jefferson (UDFA)

I'd call Okafor a depth guy if he ever gets off the training bike.

I think your 2 & 3 philosophy is a bit arbitrary. What if you're the 49ers who have 10+ picks seemingly every draft?

As for "swinging for the fences," what do you think the Swope and Ellington picks were? Swope was a great talent who made guys like Tannehill and JFF look good in college, but had concussion issues. He didn't pan out; big deal? 6th rounder. Ellington on the other hand....

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I would take Short, Alonso, Bell, Collins, Ball, and Lacy right now. I also believe in Arthur Brown, but he hasn't shown much yet. However, in all fairness, I only had Brown, Collins, and Alonso ranked higher.

I really like him too.

Leveon Bell is the guy who has surprised me. He was a big, straight line plodder at MSU. I don't even think Pittsburgh could have envisioned he'd slim down the way he has and become a much more elusive RB. I'd probably take him over about any RB in the league right now and I wanted no part of him coming into the draft.

 

[Chopper0080]

I really like him too.

Leveon Bell is the guy who has surprised me. He was a big, straight line plodder at MSU. I don't even think Pittsburgh could have envisioned he'd slim down the way he has and become a much more elusive RB. I'd probably take him over about any RB in the league right now and I wanted no part of him coming into the draft.

Trent Richardson needs to take note of Mark Ingram and LeVeon Bell's changed body types and related success. Big backs are good, but never at the expense of quickness.

 

[Chopper0080]

That's pretty illogical seeing the number of busts that occur within the top 20 picks, much less at 45.

Using your expectations, Keim should never have a bust when picking within the top 45. I'd like to have the GM that application fits. Too bad that GM does not exist.

Here is where I disagree. The Andre Wadsworth realm of failing is different than the Wendall Bryant realm of failing and the Bryant Johnson realm of failing and the Calvin Pace realm of failing.

Guys will get injured, and that happens. As long as you aren't drafting into a history of injuries, I'm good with missing in that way. I'm ok missing on a conversion player, it is tough when you have to project a college DE to a professional OLB. Where I have little patience is failing on high picks with character/drug issues (scouts are paid to do there homework and there is always a trail to follow) and players who just lack talent.

Honestly, missing on Cody Brown is more tolerable than missing on Kevin Minter. When you miss on a "safe/limited" player, that is pretty inexcusable in the top 62 picks. I'm not going to hammer Keim for missing on 3rd round and later guys, because there you really start having to project. If Ed Stinson only becomes Frostee Rucker, that is a great pick. If Kevin Minter was a 3rd or 4th rounder, his lack of impact is fine.

That is just me.

 

[oaken1]

Cardinals fans..................


never happy without a burr in their panties.....

 

[Mulli]

Cardinals fans..................


never happy without a burr in their panties.....

TMI

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

2 starters = Matthieu and Ellington

3 depth guys = Cooper (who'll be starting very soon, IMO), Watford, and Jefferson (UDFA)

I'd call Jefferson a starter, he plays more than half the snaps plus ST. Plus Jaron Brown was an UDFA as well who is our 5th WR and ST. Also signed Shaugnessy, Frostee Rucker, Stanton, Dansby, Fanaika, Abraham, and traded nothing for Palmer. Four of those guys are currently starting for our 3-0 team and other two were Pro Bowlers in their only season here.

2013 was a monster front office offseason. Along with BA's coaching it was the reason we turned 5-11 into 10-6.

 

[kerouac9]

Just curious. Why aren't you a fan of Bruce Arians the guy?

It was more at his hiring and his first pre-season. I think that he likes microphones too much and that his words can't really be trusted. Clearly, he's not thinking too much about how he comes off in the media. I'm pretty sure now that this is just genuine stuff. He's not a blowhard.

I just kind of prefer my head coaches like Belicheck and John Harbaugh and Mike Shanahan.

2 starters = Matthieu and Ellington

3 depth guys = Cooper (who'll be starting very soon, IMO), Watford, and Jefferson (UDFA)

I'd call Okafor a depth guy if he ever gets off the training bike.

I think your 2 & 3 philosophy is a bit arbitrary. What if you're the 49ers who have 10+ picks seemingly every draft?

As for "swinging for the fences," what do you think the Swope and Ellington picks were? Swope was a great talent who made guys like Tannehill and JFF look good in college, but had concussion issues. He didn't pan out; big deal? 6th rounder. Ellington on the other hand....

Well, Watford isn't among the top six, maybe seven OL, and neither is Cooper. It's probably not a plus that you used a Top 10 pick on a "depth guy".

I'm not going to kill the Cooper pick. The right process lead to a bad result, and sometimes that happens--it's the same reason that I've liked the decisions to go for 2 in weeks 1 and 2 and was baffled why we didn't go for 2 in the third quarter last week.

Okafor hasn't gotten off the training bike, and it's not clear that there's a role for him if/when he does. So he's a zero until then.

I don't understand your 49ers cavil. If you have 10 picks, you have a better chance of finding your 2 and 3. I like the theory behind San Fran stashing those guys on IR. I like the process, but the results haven't been great. If the results continue to be disappointing, the process probably needs to be refined.

I don't think "swinging for the fences" qualifies on third-day picks. Worst-case scenario, Ellington was going to be a change-of-pace 3rd down back. Its not like he was going to have zero value if he didn't become a starter. Not complaining about Swope either.