Shelton to be dealt?

[conraddobler]

It seems to me that would be the case although for what I don't really know any ideas would be nice but my hunch is based on the fact that we now have 5 guards on the team.

That seems a bit much to me and throwing in the fact Big will probably be moved to LT just somewhat solidifies my position.

I don't remember what depth we have at tackle so maybe it's not as likely as I am thinking but 5 guards seems a bit much.

He is about our only valuable trade commodity that we could afford to use at this point.

Seems a trade with the Texans to move up would be a likely scenario I'd appreciate any thoughts.

 

[Ryanwb]

Don't flame me, but unless the Texans stricktly needed a LT, I would rather they trade Clement than Shelton. LJ doesn't get hurt, played pretty solid last year and Clement's departure could open up the spot for Davis.

 

[stlouiecard]

Although I certainly share your sentiment

Originally posted by Ryanwb
Don't flame me, but unless the Texans stricktly needed a LT, I would rather they trade Clement than Shelton. LJ doesn't get hurt, played pretty solid last year and Clement's departure could open up the spot for Davis.

I don't think that Clement is tradeable due to his new salary and his past medical history. LJ should be offered a long term deal to stay with the Cards right now - not next year and if he balks then trade him. If he signs, then we have a solid LT for years to come and we have for once retained a first round pick. These guys cannot continue to fly the coop without compensation or this team will never build a consistent contender.

 

[Skkorpion]

This suggestion is insanity. Shelton developed into a real LT the last two years, playing despite a bad ankle.

Rod Graves made it clear a few weeks ago on the radio that the team was planning ahead for CAP room to resign Shelton.

Shelton has foot quickness Leonard Davis only wishes he could match.

I've ignored these "trade Shelton" threads for weeks, hoping the same two posters would come to their senses. No such luck.

Shelton is our LT for the next 6 years. Get used to it.

 

[ajcardfan]

I also agree that we shoud be trying to extend, not deal, LJ Shelton. I know he's the favorite whipping boy of some posters, but he really had a good season last year.

 

[Second Deck]

I to thought Shelton played extremely well last year and have no idea why a thread like this would be started. The O-Line is one of our few strengths.

 

[JeffGollin]

Why the freak are you even raising this as a question. You scared the hell out of me.

 

[conraddobler]

GM's never say one thing and do another?

Other than that I was asking for opinions and also please explain why we are spending so much on the OG postion also will Big then remain a * all his life?

Was there not talk of moving shelton to *....?

Have I missed something?

 

[conraddobler]

hmm my gee's were changed to *.... is that some moderator hex thingy...

 

[AntSports Steve]

Because 1 (or more) of our OT can play guard, the Cards OL last year despite injuries was still reasonable. Without the 3rd OT the cards will be screwed in 2003.

Can you guarantee that Clemment is 100%. Will he make it through the season. He's had a back problem the first years. Now torn tricept twice.

Who's the OT backup without 1 of those 3? Fina is not signed.

 

[pinnacle]

I assume roundtree is one backup tackle (or guard)..

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
I also agree that we shoud be trying to extend, not deal, LJ Shelton.

I, too, would like to see him remain on our O-line.

 

[AntSports Steve]

Roundtree is a backup guard. He played well. He was forced into guard for a game or so, but you don't want to go there.

He might be a better guard than Dishman.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by pinnacle
I assume roundtree is one backup tackle (or guard)..

Spikes, who is coming in this next week, played T for three years in college. To be honest, I don't know where he has played in the pros. I assume they are thinking about signing Spikes since he still coming to visit even after the Roundtree and Garcia signings. If they do, they will have put us in a situation where we won't have to count on any rookie UDFA's to play for a few years. How refreshing will that be? Man, we've been counting on guys like that for backups for at least the three seasons.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Of all these guards the Cards have signed, how many are actually legitimate top-line starters?

I like the signings, but to even think most of these guys are anything more than good depth and backups is indeed major insanity.

The offensive line is the strength of this team right now. Why oh why in the hell would anyone even remotely consider messing with it.

Amazing, simply amazing.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Skkorpion


Shelton has foot quickness Leonard Davis only wishes he could match.

So true. When I've read, all too often, the reference to moving "Davis to his natural position...", (usually put forward by Walter) ... I turned into a bobble-head doll.

Big hasn't played a down at LT in the pros, and the problems he had at times with speed rushers on the right side hardly inspires confidence. That said; having a potential all-pro guard on the right side for years to come is OK by me.

 

[conraddobler]

I was never advocating dealing Shelton simply puzzling at how some things start to add up when looking at our roster.

Shelton has been in the past considered by most to be pretty much not living up to his potential. Several posters have mentioned he should be more dominant than he is and he isn't exactly an all pro.

To ignore the fact of why Big was drafted would be pretty much sticking your head in the sand. If Shelton was so great why did we draft Big in the first place?

I agree Big is iffy at best at LT until proven otherwise however if you are going to make any moves involving a player Shelton is about the only one we could concievably move.

Graves has already stated we aren't likely to give picks to get players and there is a fairly large block that wants to move up to get Suggs.

IMO the only way is to deal Shelton to move up.

Wasn't arguing the merits of it just the possibility of it.

I'd still give it more than a passing chance of happening should we wish to move up in the draft. I'd say about 20 to 25%

We shall see.

 

[Northern Card]

To ignore the fact of why Big was drafted would be pretty much sticking your head in the sand. If Shelton was so great why did we draft Big in the first place?


BIG was drafted as the most talented offensive lineman on the board at the time.... I do not recall that the CARDS said that they had selected their next left tackle, in fact, I'm quite certain that they didn't.

[/B]

 

[Rats]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
This suggestion is insanity. Shelton developed into a real LT the last two years, playing despite a bad ankle.

Rod Graves made it clear a few weeks ago on the radio that the team was planning ahead for CAP room to resign Shelton.

Shelton has foot quickness Leonard Davis only wishes he could match.

I've ignored these "trade Shelton" threads for weeks, hoping the same two posters would come to their senses. No such luck.

Shelton is our LT for the next 6 years. Get used to it.

I feel as if some here miss the point with the Shelton trade talk. I think that the Oline is the strength of the team. IF you are trying to improve other areas(the Defense) then you must deal from your strength. I don't think anyone says to give Shelton away like we did DB. I think what is being said is if there is an opportunity to significantly improve the D... then Shelton is an area where we have other options(Davis). NO the OLine won't be as deep...but if we were to trade Shelton for a Suggs or a Newman...then I feel it is a no brainer on RG's part. WE have to build with what we have and aquiring top talent thru the draft may require a sacrifice or two. I don't think anyone is saying they don't like LJ...just that he is the most likely to garner the best return...with the least impact on the current team situation...IMHO...so lets not bash those who want to improve the team there Ideas are sound.........

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by Rats
I feel as if some here miss the point with the Shelton trade talk. I think that the Oline is the strength of the team. IF you are trying to improve other areas(the Defense) then you must deal from your strength. I don't think anyone says to give Shelton away like we did DB. I think what is being said is if there is an opportunity to significantly improve the D... then Shelton is an area where we have other options(Davis). NO the OLine won't be as deep...but if we were to trade Shelton for a Suggs or a Newman...then I feel it is a no brainer on RG's part. WE have to build with what we have and aquiring top talent thru the draft may require a sacrifice or two. I don't think anyone is saying they don't like LJ...just that he is the most likely to garner the best return...with the least impact on the current team situation...IMHO...so lets not bash those who want to improve the team there Ideas are sound.........

As Harry Carey would say.....HOLY COW!!!!
I mean talk about "no-brainers".
To say that trading LJ in order to draft Suggs or Newman would be "moving up" or improving the team, overall has to be as "no-brains" as you can get.
Why make changes just for the sake of making changes??
That would be like first taking 2 steps back....THEN hoping to take one foreward.....totally insane.
At this point Shelton has PROVEN to be the best pass defender on the team. Better, so far, than either Clement or Big.
According to the logic I'm seeing here....."doh, lets break what isn't broken, in fact let's screw up what we do have going for us for some unproven rookie.... just for the POSSIBILITY to improve another area....with a young and unproven professional player."
Amazing, simply amazing.

 

[Rats]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
As Harry Carey would say.....HOLY COW!!!!
I mean talk about "no-brainers".
To say that trading LJ in order to draft Suggs or Newman would be "moving up" or improving the team, overall has to be as "no-brains" as you can get.
Why make changes just for the sake of making changes??
That would be like first taking 2 steps back....THEN hoping to take one foreward.....totally insane.
At this point Shelton has PROVEN to be the best pass defender on the team. Better, so far, than either Clement or Big.
According to the logic I'm seeing here....."doh, lets break what isn't broken, in fact let's screw up what we do have going for us for some unproven rookie.... just for the POSSIBILITY to improve another area....with a young and unproven professional player."
Amazing, simply amazing.
[/B]

Well...I can see you like to associate with losers by your Harry quote and the loveable loser Cubs...birds of a feather...I guess...but your comments are off base and clueless...you ignore the facts that we can take a hit on the Oline if it gets us an Impact guy at WR or DE or CB....I repeat...Shelton is not an Impact guy...he can be replaced by what is on our roster currently...without missing a beat. Your logic is that it aint...broken? BY moving Davis...to LT nothing will be broken...get a clue ...we need more players on....DEFENSE...suggest a better plan to get them...with out attacking an idea that would only reduce depth that can be replaced by signing a FINA.....the only scarecrow in this conversation is you........

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Rats
....I repeat...Shelton is not an Impact guy...he can be replaced by what is on our roster currently...without missing a beat. Your logic is that it aint...broken? BY moving Davis...to LT nothing will be broken...get a clue ...:

If management decides to trade LJ for the purpose of acquiring SUGGS (not Newman) I won't argue with my betters. But to suggest on the basis of play that he is easily replaced by Big who hasn't, as said before, played a professional down at the position and has problems with speed rushers from right side - well, to use your own words..."get a clue..." You might just find if such a move was made that yes... LJ was an impact player. :wink:

 

[Rats]

Originally posted by Northern Card
If management decides to trade LJ for the purpose of acquiring SUGGS (not Newman) I won't argue with my betters. But to suggest on the basis of play that he is easily replaced by Big who hasn't, as said before, played a professional down at the position and has problems with speed rushers from right side - well, to use your own words..."get a clue..." You might just find if such a move was made that yes... LJ was an impact player. :wink:

What in my post indicates that I do not have a clue...your statements that if SUGGS were the one aquired you would tend to agree it is worth it to give up Shelton. And in your words "based on play"...I would suggest that Big...far exceeds Shelton in both run blocking and pass blocking...Find the stats that show how many times Shelton Pancaked the top threat on a rush....you can't because he didn't. Jake ran for his life in most part due to the fact Shelton couldn't contain...the rushing end. It certainly wasn't because big couldn't due his job. HE played at a pro bowl level.....so I think we will agree to disagree

 

[Northern Card]

Well I don't have any STATS, and evidently you don't either.

What I do have is a season full of tapes that tell me that BIG has problems with speed rushers, and to be clear, those rushers are usually the oppositions' second tier guy from the left.

And what I do know, and I guess you can view this as a Stat, Big has not played one professional regular season down at left tackle...

As for pancakes, Big is perhaps as good if not better than anyone in the league... but, I can't recall one from the tackle position.

As for Jake running for his life, more often than not, as I saw it, was because of coverage downfield and the pocket can only hold for so long. One can hardly put all of that at LJ's feet.

 

[Rats]

Originally posted by Northern Card
Well I don't have any STATS, and evidently you don't either.

What I do have is a season full of tapes that tell me that BIG has problems with speed rushers, and to be clear, those rushers are usually the oppositions' second tier guy from the left.

And what I do know, and I guess you can view this as a Stat, Big has not played one professional regular season down at left tackle...

As for pancakes, Big is perhaps as good if not better than anyone in the leagye... but, I can't recall one from the tackle position.

As for Jake running for his life, more often than not, as I saw it, was because of coverage downfield and the pocket can only hold for so long. One can hardly put all of that at LJ's feet.

I will agree to disagree...but I respect your points ...that LJ doesn't deserve blame...I just feel he has more value and is not an impact guy that we can't currently replace.