Should Dennis Green coach this team next year?

[Shane]

Heinsite is always 50-50. At the time, some of those signings looked respectable.

While looking at the bad, we also have to consider some of the good. On a personnel perspective, the good has far outweighed the bad.

Hinsight my azz. Those signings were qustioned by many especiually the Ross and Griffith signings. Thos personel decisions are squarley on his shoulders and they stunk. Are you saying those havent set us back?

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Heinsite is always 50-50. At the time, some of those signings looked respectable.

While looking at the bad, we also have to consider some of the good. On a personnel perspective, the good has far outweighed the bad.

Heinsite? Is that German?

Oh, and I do believe that 50-50 would be a pretty bad measure of vision. Wouldn't 50-50 vision make you blind?

 

[KingofCards]

Ok then defend his personel decisons in FA with the signings of Reggie Swinton, Huff, Oliver Ross, Robert Griffith?

What is it you like and see that shows he deserves more time then? Enlighten me!

I think Oliver Ross sucks, I think Huff sucks, Griffith should go back to retirement and Swinton should be teaching disco dancing.

I am no personel expert, but I don't see where the guys are out there that would be better?

Gerald Hayes? J.R. Redmond? L.J Shelton, maybe?

I think I've mentioned somewhere in this thread that my point is that 2 years is not long enough to rebuild this team.

I've never even heard of a 2 year rebuilding plan. Whoever expected that had unreasonable expectations.

 

[Shane]

I think Oliver Ross sucks, I think Huff sucks, Griffith should go back to retirement and Swinton should be teaching disco dancing.

I am no personel expert, but I don't see where the guys are out there that would be better?

Gerald Hayes? J.R. Redmond? L.J Shelton, maybe?

I think I've mentioned somewhere in this thread that my point is that 2 years is not long enough to rebuild this team.

I've never even heard of a 2 year rebuilding plan. Whoever expected that had unreasonable expectations.

Thats just it every expert out there stated as much that this team had the talent to compete(we dont compete). Thus the blame must go somewhere? Where are you putting it then?

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I think Oliver Ross sucks, I think Huff sucks, Griffith should go back to retirement and Swinton should be teaching disco dancing.

I am no personel expert, but I don't see where the guys are out there that would be better?

Gerald Hayes? J.R. Redmond? L.J Shelton, maybe?

I think I've mentioned somewhere in this thread that my point is that 2 years is not long enough to rebuild this team.

I've never even heard of a 2 year rebuilding plan. Whoever expected that had unreasonable expectations.

I agree. Most of the people on this baord suffered from what a lot of college teams suffer from whenit turns out their team is ranked top25 preseason. They promptly go out and stink it up.

I know a few of us tried to point out in Agust that this team still couldnt stop the run, that the oline was questionable etc, but most posts on ths board where about crossing off "easy wins" on the schedule.

Like I have said, 2 years is not long enough to take the single most inept franchise in proffesional sports and make them a playoff team. If you believe it is then you are simply delusional.

 

[Shane]

I agree. Most of the people on this baord suffered from what a lot of college teams suffer from whenit turns out their team is ranked top25 preseason. They promptly go out and stink it up.

I know a few of us tried to point out in Agust that this team still couldnt stop the run, that the oline was questionable etc, but most posts on ths board where about crossing off "easy wins" on the schedule.

Like I have said, 2 years is not long enough to take the single most inept franchise in proffesional sports and make them a playoff team. If you believe it is then you are simply delusional.

Thats just it every expert out there stated as much that this team had the talent to compete(we dont compete). Thus the blame must go somewhere? Where are you putting it then?

 

[KingofCards]

I agree. Most of the people on this baord suffered from what a lot of college teams suffer from whenit turns out their team is ranked top25 preseason. They promptly go out and stink it up.

I know a few of us tried to point out in Agust that this team still couldnt stop the run, that the oline was questionable etc, but most posts on ths board where about crossing off "easy wins" on the schedule.

Like I have said, 2 years is not long enough to take the single most inept franchise in proffesional sports and make them a playoff team. If you believe it is then you are simply delusional.

Right, and I think they look at some extraordinary turnarounds and expected that to happen here, thus setting themselves up for more disappointment.

 

[KingofCards]

Thats just it every expert out there stated as much that this team had the talent to compete(we dont compete). Thus the blame must go somewhere? Where are you putting it then?

Shane you are losing me here.

One second you are saying Green made bad personel decisions causing the team to lose, but then you say that the team was talented enough to compete?

You can't have it both ways.

Either we have the talent to win, but Green's ineptness is failing us during games, or we don't have the talent to win cause Green made bad personnel decisions.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Thats just it every expert out there stated as much that this team had the talent to compete(we dont compete). Thus the blame must go somewhere? Where are you putting it then?

Come on Shane, I know you are smarter than that. Hell most "experts " thought Detroit was gonna wint heir division and that the Bills would get at least a wild card spot.

You know as well as I do that those "experts" ubnless they are local get their info from what they see on TV or from another national mag.

Many people on thisboard did not consider this team a playoff team. I am sorry some of you were dupped into believeing that.

 

[Russ Smith]

The Cardinals can't hold the Bengals jock. All you have to see is 2 Super Bowl appearances to realize that.

If you don't recall the Cardinals, just 2 years stopped screwing around with contracts and joined the rest of the league in the 21st century. No bells and whistles, no injury waiver.... and on and on.

Obviously you had unreasonable expectations, if you didn't we wouldn't be having this conversation.

You can't start over every 2 years. You gonna bring the next guy in here and say you have 2 years to win or you are fired????????

KOC the Bengals and Cards were doing the same thing, we switched the insurance waiver deal BEFORE the Bengals did, we were the last 2 teams that did that. That's why Bryant held out for example.

Cincy was in disarray when lewis got there. mao says they had a pro bowl RB on the roster, hell Cards fans were saying Shipp was better than Rudi Johnson not that long ago, the only person who apparently knew Rudi was good was the guy who decided to trade dillon and give the job to Rudi.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Hinsight my azz. Those signings were qustioned by many especiually the Ross and Griffith signings. Thos personel decisions are squarley on his shoulders and they stunk. Are you saying those havent set us back?

Ross sucks.. I'm not going to try to defend the signing of him. Last year, in Pittsburgh, his inadequacies were very well protected. The Cards don't have an Alan Faneca to protect him. Also, it's no irony that the Steelers made zero effort to re-sign him.

As for Griffith, on a one or two year deal, I wasn't too against the move. I figured having him around would help in the development of guys like Rolle, Green and ultimately Shazor.

Swinton, KR are a dime a dozen. Truthfully, I didn't give a **** one way or another.

When Huff was brought in, if I remember correctly, the overall thought was that he was brought in for depth. It's not as though he was expected to anchor the defense.

I'm not defending the crap. But to say this set us back? I consider the moves questionable, but none of the signings were of the "Make or Break the Franchise" variety.

 

[KingofCards]

KOC the Bengals and Cards were doing the same thing, we switched the insurance waiver deal BEFORE the Bengals did, we were the last 2 teams that did that. That's why Bryant held out for example.

Cincy was in disarray when lewis got there. mao says they had a pro bowl RB on the roster, hell Cards fans were saying Shipp was better than Rudi Johnson not that long ago, the only person who apparently knew Rudi was good was the guy who decided to trade dillon and give the job to Rudi.

So this is Marvin Lewis' second year as coach of the Bengals?

 

[Russ Smith]

Come on Russ, who on the Cards is equivelent to what the Bengals had on that defense? Takeo Spikes and Brian Simmons...both Pro Bowl LB'S...who did we have? Ronald McKinnon and Rob Fredreickon?

The talent was on those teams, there was almost zero talent on the team Mac left DG

That defense was DEAD LAST in points allowed in the NFL the year before Lewis took over. Did they have talent, yes, but somehow LeBeau coached it to allowing more points than any other NFL team.

And why keep talking about what Green inherited, it's 2 years later, he has a LOT more talent now, and he's still stuck on 4 wins against bad teams and just lost to the team with the worst record in the NFL that played without it's best offensive player.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Heinsite? Is that German?

Oh, and I do believe that 50-50 would be a pretty bad measure of vision. Wouldn't 50-50 vision make you blind?

I think it's Polish

 

[Shane]

Shane you are losing me here.

One second you are saying Green made bad personel decisions causing the team to lose, but then you say that the team was talented enough to compete?

You can't have it both ways.

Either we have the talent to win, but Green's ineptness is failing us during games, or we don't have the talent to win cause Green made bad personnel decisions.

This team is talented enough to compete IMO even with those poor decisions. His bad personel decisions havent made it any easier for sure. But there is still enough there to win. Its his poor on field decisions and inability to obviously motivate this team is the main problem. His inability to keep this team disiplined.

Im merely trying to find something of his you can defend? Since you think he deserves another year.

 

[Russ Smith]

So this is Marvin Lewis' second year as coach of the Bengals?

No it's his 3rd. his first year he took a 2-14 team that was 28th in scoring and dead last in points allowed, and went 8-8. The next year he made the QB change realizing Palmer was the future and had to play, they started slowly, and finished with a bang. This year they lead the NFL in takeaways, and look quite likely to make the playoffs.

And if people want a name for a new coach, how about Bresnahan the DC in Cincy, they lead the league in Takeaways.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Cincy was in disarray when lewis got there. mao says they had a pro bowl RB on the roster, hell Cards fans were saying Shipp was better than Rudi Johnson not that long ago, the only person who apparently knew Rudi was good was the guy who decided to trade dillon and give the job to Rudi.

No one is saying Cincy wasnt in disarray when Lewis got there, but they did have talent.

Dllon, Johnson, Simmons, Spikes, to name a few. Even Kitna looked like an all pro when you compared him to the Cards roster.

No one, and maybe I just cant think of them, but no one I can remember, had half the talent that some of the players on that Bengal team had.

Mckinnon,
Fredrickson,
Barret
Starks (could be argued but never played)
Knight
Van Den Bosch (out with acl injuries)
Blake
Shipp


I mean who else was there? Plummer? I dont think anyone was sad to see him go.

 

[KingofCards]

No it's his 3rd. his first year he took a 2-14 team that was 28th in scoring and dead last in points allowed, and went 8-8. The next year he made the QB change realizing Palmer was the future and had to play, they started slowly, and finished with a bang. This year they lead the NFL in takeaways, and look quite likely to make the playoffs.

And if people want a name for a new coach, how about Bresnahan the DC in Cincy, they lead the league in Takeaways.

Right its the third year for Lewis.

Green deserves 3 years. Giving up after 2 years is ridiculous, there is no such thing as a 2 year rebuilding plan. If you thought we would make the playoffs this year you obviously had unreasonable expectations.

That has been my point this whole thread.

There is alot of obvious stuff you guys are ignoring, that has contributed to us losing this year.

I think Green coaching mistakes cost us more games last year than this one, btw.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Only one question:

What are the "better" options we have sitting in the wings...?

Otherwise i can handle another year of denny stocking the cabinet before making a final decsion

 

[Russ Smith]

No one is saying Cincy wasnt in disarray when Lewis got there, but they did have talent.

Dllon, Johnson, Simmons, Spikes, to name a few. Even Kitna looked like an all pro when you compared him to the Cards roster.

No one, and maybe I just cant think of them, but no one I can remember, had half the talent that some of the players on that Bengal team had.

Mckinnon,
Fredrickson,
Barret
Starks (could be argued but never played)
Knight
Van Den Bosch (out with acl injuries)
Blake
Shipp


I mean who else was there? Plummer? I dont think anyone was sad to see him go.

Totally disagree, I mean Green himself compared Josh to Favre and Culpepper, so it's gotta be his fault that hasn't panned out. Green this year compared Navarre to Brady.

Do I think the Cards had great talent under mac no, but again that's 2 years ago, mac has nothing to do with how crappy the OL is now, that's ENTIRELY on Green. Mac isn't the guy that decided Shipp, Arrington and James jackson were the answer at RB. Mac isn't the guy that decided not having a single drafted TE on the opening day roster made sense. mac isn't the guy that decided any DT over 305 pounds had no business on this team.

This team is way more talented than it was 2 years ago, so the fact that the record isn't much better tells you there's a HUGE problem with getting that talent to perform on Sundays. I call that, coaching.

 

[Shane]

Right its the third year for Lewis.

Green deserves 3 years. Giving up after 2 years is ridiculous, there is no such thing as a 2 year rebuilding plan. If you thought we would make the playoffs this year you obviously had unreasonable expectations.

That has been my point this whole thread.

There is alot of obvious stuff you guys are ignoring, that has contributed to us losing this year.

I think Green coaching mistakes cost us more games last year than this one, btw.

Why is it ridiculous? because you say so? Hell at least Lewis had his team competative and respectable in year 1 and year 2. The same cant be said of Green.

 

[Shane]

Totally disagree, I mean Green himself compared Josh to Favre and Culpepper, so it's gotta be his fault that hasn't panned out. Green this year compared Navarre to Brady.

Do I think the Cards had great talent under mac no, but again that's 2 years ago, mac has nothing to do with how crappy the OL is now, that's ENTIRELY on Green. Mac isn't the guy that decided Shipp, Arrington and James jackson were the answer at RB. Mac isn't the guy that decided not having a single drafted TE on the opening day roster made sense. mac isn't the guy that decided any DT over 305 pounds had no business on this team.

This team is way more talented than it was 2 years ago, so the fact that the record isn't much better tells you there's a HUGE problem with getting that talent to perform on Sundays. I call that, coaching.

 

[Russ Smith]

Right its the third year for Lewis.

Green deserves 3 years. Giving up after 2 years is ridiculous, there is no such thing as a 2 year rebuilding plan. If you thought we would make the playoffs this year you obviously had unreasonable expectations.

That has been my point this whole thread.

There is alot of obvious stuff you guys are ignoring, that has contributed to us losing this year.

I think Green coaching mistakes cost us more games last year than this one, btw.

But what in th efirst 2 years has Green done to earn the 3rd year? Drafting? Lewis went 8-8 his first year, it was obvious he was turning things around. Green has improved the talent but been unable to coach it, and he's been completely inept at fixing the OL, which he himself said was his #1 priority when he took over. I'm sorry, if I hire a CEO who says my #1 priority is improving customer service, and 2 years later my customer service still sucks, it's my opinion that the CEO failed.

Do I think Green can come back next year and win 10 games, yes I do, I also think there's 10 guys who'd love an NFL head coaching job who could come in and possibly win 10 games next year here too. you just have to be able to find them. Green is procuring talent, but he's not coaching it. if Green is back next year I'd expect to see MASSIVE changes on his coaching staff.

 

[Shane]

But what in th efirst 2 years has Green done to earn the 3rd year? Drafting? Lewis went 8-8 his first year, it was obvious he was turning things around. Green has improved the talent but been unable to coach it, and he's been completely inept at fixing the OL, which he himself said was his #1 priority when he took over. I'm sorry, if I hire a CEO who says my #1 priority is improving customer service, and 2 years later my customer service still sucks, it's my opinion that the CEO failed.

Do I think Green can come back next year and win 10 games, yes I do, I also think there's 10 guys who'd love an NFL head coaching job who could come in and possibly win 10 games next year here too. you just have to be able to find them. Green is procuring talent, but he's not coaching it. if Green is back next year I'd expect to see MASSIVE changes on his coaching staff.

Russ you are so eloquent. Truer words could not be spoken.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

He never should have been the coach to begin with...