Should Suns continue with the 2 PG system or no?

[sunsfan88]

IMO we should get rid of it and try and get a true SG (6'5 or taller and can move well without the ball). I get that it worked with Hornacek and Stockton and Hornacek and KJ but we don't live in those times anymore. There's a reason why none of the other 29 teams in the NBA are trying to do this and no, the reason's not because we're smarter than rest of the NBA.

That's my 2 cents on this topic.

Whether we like it or not, seems like Suns will continue to push this 2 PG lineup on us. However, are you for or against it?

 

[Ronin]

Nah, dump the two point guard system. Get a shooting guard that is 6'5, create his own shot, pass willingly, defend and rebound.

 

[Errntknght]

You can call it a two PG system but zero PGs would be more accurate. Jeff's miniscule playbook isn't suitable for two combo guards - even ones that are wannabe PGs. It really needs a creative PG, like Nash/Stockton/Paul, to make it hum. Ennis might have filled the bill - at least he had the right mentality so shedding him suggests your fears are right, we are going to waltz around with two combo guards for the near future.

Even worse, I fear that Bledsoe and Wright both see themselves as the 'man' so the friction will continue.

Of course, I believe the right thing to do is to dump Hornacek but McD is probably two years away from admitting he made a mistake in hiring him as HC. In fact, I'd like him to do it quickly in case Thibs becomes available. (I read an article by Woj recently in which he says the Chicago FO is seriously wanting to get rid of him and install Fred Hoiberg at the helm. I don't believe this the same article in which 'sources close to Thibs' averred that Thibs himself is expecting the axe - that surfaced a couple of weeks ago.)

 

[Catlover]

The love here for Thibs is amazing especially given the disdain with which D'antoni is viewed. They are more alike than not IMO. One focuses almost entirely on defense the other focuses almost entirely on offense. But each of them has failed to win it all. And each of them has been knocked for overplaying their stars, perhaps to the detriment of the team.

Why are TT's shortcomings ignored while MD's are frequently brought under the microscope? Is it because of postseason success? Mike had a 6 year run with Phoenix that resulted in a 26 - 25 playoff record. Tom has a 5 year run that so far has resulted in a 22 - 24 record and that was in the far easier Eastern Conference. I don't see the improvement.

If it were up to me, Jeff if fired, would be replaced by a coach that understood something neither Mike nor Tom seem to. You need balance. The biggest difference between the two of them, to me, is that Tom would make a great assistant coach.

 

[Cheesebeef]

they have to get one legit PG before we even talk about a 2 PG system.

sadly, what they're running now is a two combo-guard system... and a small combo-guard system at that, which makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm liking a one PG system (with backup PGs) because it limits playing time for SGs. The Suns do not have enough minutes for players like Archie Goodwin, Danny Granger, Reggie Bullock, Gerald Green and Bogdan Bogdanovic. I agree the Suns do not have a pure PG but I think Bledsoe or Knight would suffice. Also a concern for me is that the Suns, if they do not change course, will be looking to add (or keep) another tweener guard like Jerel McNeal as a backup PG.

 

[SirStefan32]

they have to get one legit PG before we even talk about a 2 PG system.

sadly, what they're running now is a two combo-guard system... and a small combo-guard system at that, which makes no sense whatsoever.

Exactly!

 

[Mainstreet]

The love here for Thibs is amazing especially given the disdain with which D'antoni is viewed. They are more alike than not IMO. One focuses almost entirely on defense the other focuses almost entirely on offense. But each of them has failed to win it all. And each of them has been knocked for overplaying their stars, perhaps to the detriment of the team.

Why are TT's shortcomings ignored while MD's are frequently brought under the microscope? Is it because of postseason success? Mike had a 6 year run with Phoenix that resulted in a 26 - 25 playoff record. Tom has a 5 year run that so far has resulted in a 22 - 24 record and that was in the far easier Eastern Conference. I don't see the improvement.

If it were up to me, Jeff if fired, would be replaced by a coach that understood something neither Mike nor Tom seem to. You need balance. The biggest difference between the two of them, to me, is that Tom would make a great assistant coach.

I agree, the Suns head coach needs to have some balance with offense and defense like Golden State. I think the Suns were very close to becoming that when Steve Kerr was the Suns GM. However, Mike D'Antoni seemed to reject his input. It seems like a pride or stubborn thing with D'Antoni looking back. However, the Suns had a chance to change direction if they had hired Mike Budenholzer. Perhaps someone like him is still out there. I'd look to the Spurs for a new head coach but I'm thinking someone on that staff is waiting for Gregg Popovich to retire.

If Mike D'Antoni would commit to accepting direction from a GM with more focus on defense and developing rookies, I would consider bringing him back. He would have to accept a defensive assistant who would be allowed to have input. I'd like to think he has learned from his failures with the Knicks and Lakers. IMO, he was more than Steve Nash, although Nash was the maestro of the offense. The Lakers were a horrible fit with Dwight Howard at center and an injured Steve Nash. The Suns now, under Hornacek, play a lesser version of SSOL with players who mostly have an offensive skill set. So not much of a change here. Also the Suns have a center in Alex Len who fits D'Antoni's style. Anyway, it's a thought.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree, the Suns head coach needs to have some balance with offense and defense like Golden State. I think the Suns were very close to becoming that when Steve Kerr was the Suns GM. However, Mike D'Antoni seemed to reject his input. It seems like a pride or stubborn thing with D'Antoni looking back. However, the Suns had a chance to change direction if they had hired Mike Budenholzer. Perhaps someone like him is still out there. I'd look to the Spurs for a new head coach but I'm thinking someone on that staff is waiting for Gregg Popovich to retire.

If Mike D'Antoni would commit to accepting direction from a GM with more focus on defense and developing rookies, I would consider bringing him back. He would have to accept a defensive assistant who would be allowed to have input. I'd like to think he has learned from his failures with the Knicks and Lakers. IMO, he was more than Steve Nash, although Nash was the maestro of the offense. The Lakers were a horrible fit with Dwight Howard at center and an injured Steve Nash. The Suns now, under Hornacek, play a lesser version of SSOL with players who mostly have an offensive skill set. So not much of a change here. Also the Suns have a center in Alex Len who fits D'Antoni's style. Anyway, it's a thought.

it's a bad thought, IMO. D'A is a one trick pony and that pony's on his way to the glue factory.

 

[95pro]

3 and D guy at the two-spot.

 

[Mainstreet]

it's a bad thought, IMO. D'A is a one trick pony and that pony's on his way to the glue factory.

And where are the Suns headed.

Right now the Suns seem to lack direction with Jeff Hornacek as coach although I hope I'm wrong. I do think DA could get the Suns back in the playoffs quicker than most head coaches. The key would be convincing DA to accept direction from the GM with defensive input. Maybe he would accept a short term contract giving the Suns a team option out after a year or two. DA has said he regrets leaving the Suns. Let him prove it.

 

[sunsfan88]

Anyone else watching the Grizzlies-Warriors series impressed by Mike Conley?

No doubt in my mind that his #s will decline as he won't keep up his game 2 performance by all post season long and Grizz likely lose to the Warriors as well but whenever I have watched Conley play, you can tell that he has complete control over their offense. His stats are rather mediocre if you look it up, but if you actually watched him play, he literally operates that offense to perfection.

Inside the NBA analysts love Conley and I used to think why because of his mediocre stats but after paying attention to him in games, its impressive.

If we could have a guy like that at the 1 who may not have awesome stats or put up close to triple doubles or whatever but can run the offense, that would be great.

 

[elindholm]

I do think DA could get the Suns back in the playoffs quicker than most head coaches.

To what aim? A quick loss in the first round?

The key would be convincing DA to accept direction from the GM with defensive input.

I don't think it works that way. There is one head coach. When push comes to shove, he's the one who dictates the team's preparation and in-game decisions. D'Antoni's problem isn't that he didn't care about defense. It's that he is stubborn and can't learn from his mistakes. That won't change, no matter what mandate a front office gives him, or how many brilliant assistants you surround him with.

DA has said he regrets leaving the Suns. Let him prove it.

Let it go. It's Nash you miss, not D'Antoni, and Nash isn't coming back.

 

[slinslin]

[url]http://de.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Faux+Outrage[/URL]

Typical SF88 argument. No or Yes it won't change anything. You play the best 2 guards you have anyway. If you "designed" your shooting guard he would still be able to do everything a PG does and vice versa.

It is also not like the difference of a 6'3 shooting guard or 6'5 shooting guard makes a real difference defensively.

 

[sunsfan88]

[url]http://de.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Faux+Outrage[/URL]

Typical SF88 argument. No or Yes it won't change anything. You play the best 2 guards you have anyway. If you "designed" your shooting guard he would still be able to do everything a PG does and vice versa.

It is also not like the difference of a 6'3 shooting guard or 6'5 shooting guard makes a real difference defensively.

If slin is for the 2 PG system, then it just adds to my point that we should not go forward with it

 

[sunsfan88]

3 and D guy at the two-spot.

I'm hoping we can go after a guy like Wesley Matthews if Aaron Nelson and his staff feel comfortable with his recovery. Portland may let him walk and he does have ties to Hornacek.

Very good shooter and very good defender.

 

[PhxGametime]

I like the dual PG line-up! Bledsoe is around 25 y/o and Knight 24 y/o - Dragic himself wasn't dominant at 25. Playing armchair GM, Bledsoe was the guy I wanted, via Trade years back because he rebounds/shot blocks like a SG/SF. At the time, I also knew we'd be able to acquire him cheaply sooo I wasn't just adamant about 2 PG system, but I like it. So unless the Suns can find a true SG that puts up Gordon Hayward/Bledsoe like numbers, IMO, a Jared Dudley type SG would limit offense that much more. Having 2 guards that can run Offense and w/ Bledsoe putting up REB like a SF and Knight shooting from perimeter similar to the better wings isn't hindering Team.

With Morrii being in the situation they are, Suns aren't likely to upgrade at PF I'm guessing involving Morrii in Trade. Markieff is easily a top 10-15 PF in League and Marcus can spread the floor, so I'd look to get a backup rebounding PF or upgrade the SF position. With Warren possibly a good to solid scorer though, PF may be best option??

Paul Millsap, Draymond Green, Enes Kanter, Bismack Biyombo, Jordan Hill, Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, etc. all could be FA. Not sure Aldridge or Monroe are attainable. But first 3 on list would be upgrades allowing Morrii to come off bench.

Draft BPA. The Suns could also put a package together for a Star but no one knows who'd be available...

 

[slinslin]

If slin is for the 2 PG system, then it just adds to my point that we should not go forward with it

I think you have a very twisted sense of how you are perceived my friend.

 

[sunsfan88]

I think you have a very twisted sense of how you are perceived my friend.

Im definitely not the twisted one buddy since I actually see Robin Lopez for the player he actually is and since i don't refute facts that are proven like Jerry recruiting Nash, Magic not being a center or whatever it was that you claimed him to be and everything else that spout on here.

 

[overseascardfan]

Scrap it, failed miserably. Keep Knight as he seems like more of a PG than Bledsoe and go after Wesley Mattthews or Danny Green.

 

[Catlover]

Scrap it, failed miserably. Keep Knight as he seems like more of a PG than Bledsoe and go after Wesley Mattthews or Danny Green.

It did? When we were healthy did we really lose a lot of games because of our two point guards?

I don't blame the point guards for our inability to rebound or defend in the paint, our two biggest problems. I blame them for excessive turnovers and they were part of the problem with a lack of ball movement but they were a small part of it IMO.

The fact that the twins felt the need to put the ball on the floor even when they were wide open had a lot to do with our low assist numbers. I'd attribute the overall lack of passing and off the ball movement to them too. But until we see this team with something approaching a full complement of players, I think it's too early to judge our point guards.

I believe we have to stay with the two PG approach until we decide to move on from Bledsoe. Giving up on him now seems premature given his limited playing time and limited time as a starter. I feel much the same about Knight, you can't build a typical team with him as your starting point guard. All told I'm not convinced he's a better true point than Bledsoe and Eric is clearly not a true point guard.

Even if we decide to dump both players though it's hardly an indictment of the two point guard system. I understand the reasoning behind this approach and it has merit AFAIC. The current rules are designed to protect the perimeter ball handler so it makes sense to have another ball handler on the court at all times. Our problem is that we are trying to do it with 2 players that have somewhat questionable point guard skills.

 

[Mainstreet]

To what aim? A quick loss in the first round?

Just making the playoffs sounds good right now.

I don't think it works that way. There is one head coach. When push comes to shove, he's the one who dictates the team's preparation and in-game decisions. D'Antoni's problem isn't that he didn't care about defense. It's that he is stubborn and can't learn from his mistakes. That won't change, no matter what mandate a front office gives him, or how many brilliant assistants you surround him with.

I'm not so certain DA would not try to change given the taste of failure and the success of Steve Kerr. I think people can change to a certain extent after facing adversity.

Let it go. It's Nash you miss, not D'Antoni, and Nash isn't coming back.

Let it go. No I will not let it go.

I miss Steve Nash but I think other PGs could run DA's system, just not the same. I believe the elements of running at every opportunity and spacing the floor with shooters still works. However, the Suns would need add some defensive intensity.

Actually what started me comparing the current Suns to a lesser version of SSOL is the current Suns are made for running except for their lack of shooting. Also, I'm not seeing much defensive focus.

Anyway, I'm not locked onto DA. I brought it up for conversation but I do believe the current Suns would play better under DA than Hornacek.

 

[Covert Rain]

2 PG system is crap and serves no long term purpose other than to get you bounced in the playoffs assuming you can get there.

Also, on the Pringles front? Dear God no. The Suns accomplished what they did in spite of D'Antoni not because of him. Besides asking D'Antoni to change his ways is like asking him to shave his mustache. You know it's not going to happen.

I am sure he loses his powers if he does anyway.

 

[Mainstreet]

2 PG system is crap and serves no long term purpose other than to get you bounced in the playoffs assuming you can get there.

Also, on the Pringles front? Dear God no. The Suns accomplished what they did in spite of D'Antoni not because of him. Besides asking D'Antoni to change his ways is like asking him to shave his mustache. You know it's not going to happen.

I am sure he loses his powers if he does anyway.

I don't believe this.

Some fans can knock D'Antoni all they want but he coached the Suns to four consecutive seasons of fifty or more games won. I'd like to have seen what would have happened if D'Antoni had remained with the Suns. The big knock on D'Antoni is he did not beat San Antonio and Dallas in two appearances in the WCFs. Now the Suns can't even sniff the playoffs.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't believe this.

Some fans can knock D'Antoni all they want but he coached the Suns to four consecutive seasons of fifty or more games won. I'd like to have seen what would have happened if D'Antoni had remained with the Suns. The big knock on D'Antoni is he did not beat San Antonio and Dallas in two appearances in the WCFs. Now the Suns can't even sniff the playoffs.

Oh come on... you cannot compare the talent we had then vs now and say it boils down to coaching.

D'Antoni has won less than 40% of the games he has coached when Steve Nash was not in his lineup. When the Knicks fired him Mike Woodson (a bad coach in his own right) took over and immediate the Knicks became vastly improved. It took him nearly 80% of a season with the Lakers for it to occur to him that playing 2 guys of the quality of Gasol and Howard together was a GOOD thing, just in time for his squad of 4 hall of famers to squeak into the playoffs.

Mike D'Antoni owes every iota of success he had in the NBA to Steve Nash. Separate from Nash he has one of the worst resumes in the entire league. Like eric said, you don't miss Mike, you miss Nash.

This team last year had no true distributor and little outside shooting, put that squad in Mike D'Antoni's incapable hands and I expect they would have won about 25 games.