Should Suns continue with the 2 PG system or no?

[sunsfan88]

I don't disagree, but the problem is that the Suns don't have A point guard, not that they have two. Dragic was probably the closest thing to a point guard, and he was definitely less of a ball stopper than the other ones, but even he wasn't really effective without a secondary ball-handler/ facilitator. In an idea world, Dragic would play next to a young Grant Hill.

There is no incentive for anyone to move without the ball if Bledsoe or IT have the ball as they are not going to pass it unless it's off of a drive to a spot-up shooter. To make things worse, Morris brothers aren't gonna pass the ball to anyone but each other, and neither will Green. Tucker isn't much of a passer, and Len, while a willing passer, is very young, underutilized, and inexperienced. Your guards are ball stoppers, your forwards are ball stoppers, of course there will be no ball movement or movement without the ball.

Yea that's true.

It seemed that way with the Suns last season however I think it's more about how the offense is run. This worries me the most about Jeff Hornacek as head coach. It seemed the Suns would wait for one of the PGs to penetrate to create the open shot.

Yea he puts the whole responsibility on the PG to create. There's hardly any back door cutting or off ball screens being utilized.

Even teams with great PGs like CP3 or Curry have a ton of action going on away from the ball. And then if its a broken play THEN the PG penetrates to create something for himself or others.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think it is clear.

Agreed. He is 127-191 since leaving the Suns. That is horrible. Each team he has coached has gotten progressively worse verses when he arrived.

DA has a winning record as an NBA head coach. I give him credit for what he has done. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't believe in chopping a coaches career into pieces for the sake of winning a discussion. In poker, it's called playing the cards that are dealt.

I don't either. That's why you have to look at what he did after he left here. Which is each team he coached progressively got worse at defense and didn't do anything. It's very clear to me that he was a one trick pony. What he did hear has more to do with having a hall of famer running his offense.

I look at it similar. The players where dealt a coach and played those cards they were dealt.

Actually I'm all for including DA's entire coaching record when looking at him as a head coach. I feel the same about examining the head coaching careers for Paul Westphal or Cotton Fitzsimmons. I have pointed out that excluding parts of their entire career (like their coaching careers with the Suns) is cherry picking. I have previously explained my thoughts at length to several posters.

I totally agree with that. I have no problem doing that with Cotton or Paul. I personally don't think either of them were great coaches even though I loved Cotton and Westy while they were here.

I guess I would get your point more if he had a roller coaster coaching career but he hasn't. There is no indication he wasn't a benefactor Nash and the talent he had here. I really think had we had a better coach we would at least have won 1 title. It would be one thing if D'Antoni one a title here and then took other teams deep in the playoffs (a la Doc Rivers). He is even far from that.

I guess at the end of the day I am opposite of what you originally posted. I don't get why anybody would view D'Antoni any differently based on his overall track record. The Suns won despite D'Antoni not because of him. Nash had way more to do with this teams record during that time.

 

[BC867]

The Suns won despite D'Antoni not because of him. Nash had way more to do with this teams record during that time.

I was and am anti-D'Antoni as a Coach and agree that he rode on Steve Nash's jock-tails.

A couple of other thoughts crossed my mind.

With his 7.5 man rotation and not developing young talent, D'Antoni was doomed to fail in the long run. He used Steve to put on a show and burned him (and the team) out.

And, D'Antoni did not have the skill to develop a Plan B for when Steve was resting (or should have been). Every backup Point Guard was a failure.

Further proof that D'Antoni was indeed a one-trick pony.

It was said, correctly, that no one could replace Nash on the floor. A well-rounded Coach would have had the foresight and skill to establish an alternate offense for those times, just as when any NBA superstar is resting.

 

[Mainstreet]

You guys are going let out a hoot if the Suns hire D'Antoni back.

 

[elindholm]

You guys are going let out a hoot if the Suns hire D'Antoni back.

As we would if they hired Terry Porter, or Paul Westphal, or Mark Jackson, who are all about equally likely.

 

[Mainstreet]

As we would if they hired Terry Porter, or Paul Westphal, or Mark Jackson, who are all about equally likely.

Actually I think it could happen if D'antoni has not burned his bridges with Sarver. He had great success here. The last word I heard he was one of four candidates for the Nuggets job.

From The Denver Post:

Mike D'Antoni

What he has done: In 12 seasons of head coaching, D'Antoni has compiled a 455-426 record in stints with the Nuggets (1998-99), Suns (2003-08), Knicks (2008-12) and Lakers (2012-14). He was the NBA's coach of the year for the 2004-05 season.

What he's currently doing: He is out of the NBA after resigning as the Lakers' coach in 2014.

Why he's intriguing: Everyone remembers D'Antoni's Suns teams featuring players such as Steve Nash, Amar'e Stoudemire, Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion. Those teams played a wide-open style and won a ton of games, reaching the Western Conference finals twice.

Melvin Hunt, Alvin Gentry and Scott Brooks are the other candidates.


Better root for Denver to hire D'Antoni or Hornacek to get it going.


http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_28085748/look-at-nuggets-top-four-candidates-become-new

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I think the 3 and 4 spots are of far greater concern than the 1 and 2 spots.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think the 3 and 4 spots are of far greater concern than the 1 and 2 spots.

Agreed. I can take or leave the 2 PG look, but it was low on the reasons the Suns struggled. Markieff is a below average starter (at best), Len made progress but is still inconsistent and oft injured, the depth behind those guys was abysmal. I think Tucker is a solid player but not starting material unless you've got some real solid offensive players around him.

 

[Phrazbit]

Better root for Denver to hire D'Antoni or Hornacek to get it going.


http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_28085748/look-at-nuggets-top-four-candidates-become-new

I'm not worried. I'm sure he won't ever coach here again and I think its pretty likely he is never a HC again anywhere in the NBA. I suspect he has a bad rep with front offices and I know the last 2 rosters of players under him wanted to burn him at the stake.

I could see him being an assistant somewhere and maybe taking over as HC if a coach got axed mid-season, but it would take a really desperate and stupid team to give him the reigns any time soon based on his resume and reputation.

 

[mojorizen7]

I think the 3 and 4 spots are of far greater concern than the 1 and 2 spots.

Indeed. The Suns hopefully aren't dumping all of their resources into searching for the next Steve Nash and/or elite backcourt for two reasons:
1) Nash is a HOF and a once in a generation type player
2) Elite PG's don't win championships(unless you're 6'9" and one of the greatest players in NBA history)

 

[Mainstreet]

Personally, I hope the Suns find a quality center that can back up Len. Also the Suns need more depth at the 4/5. Without a doubt the Suns need shooters when the PGs guards can't penetrate. Maybe Granger can help if he stays. The Suns cannot continue being weak up front with that unbalanced look.

 

[mojorizen7]

Personally, I hope the Suns find a quality center that can back up Len. Also the Suns need more depth at the 4/5. Without a doubt the Suns need shooters when the PGs guards can't penetrate. Maybe Granger can help if he stays. The Suns cannot continue being weak up front with that unbalanced look.

They need better players there. Depth is what you look for once you've got better players.

 

[sunsfan88]

Personally, I hope the Suns find a quality center that can back up Len. Also the Suns need more depth at the 4/5. Without a doubt the Suns need shooters when the PGs guards can't penetrate. Maybe Granger can help if he stays. The Suns cannot continue being weak up front with that unbalanced look.

McD said that one of his main priorities is gonna be to resign Wright. He did trade away 2 high second rd picks for him.

Wright really played well to end the season but not sure if a 6'9 super skinny C (despite having great reach) is really what we need at backup C.

 

[Mainstreet]

They need better players there. Depth is what you look for once you've got better players.

However, the Morris twins may be hard to move. So the Suns might search for young depth behind them and Len that can be developed. I think a lot could be accomplished if the Suns could put a true center on the court most of the time (a backup for Len). That's why I wanted the Suns to go after Kanter when he was available. Even if Kanter had not worked out, they could have likely traded him.

 

[Mainstreet]

McD said that one of his main priorities is gonna be to resign Wright. He did trade away 2 high second rd picks for him.

Wright really played well to end the season but not sure if a 6'9 super skinny C (despite having great reach) is really what we need at backup C.

Minimally, I view Wright as depth and the Suns need to keep him.

 

[Covert Rain]

However, the Morris twins may be hard to move. So the Suns might search for young depth behind them and Len that can be developed. I think a lot could be accomplished if the Suns could put a true center on the court most of the time (a backup for Len). That's why I wanted the Suns to go after Kanter when he was available. Even if Kanter had not worked out, they could have likely traded him.

Do you think the Morris Twins were the answer at our Forward spots? I don't. Agree we need more depth at Center but I think we could accomplish more by shoring up the Forward spot no? I guess that is assuming we have something in Len.

 

[Mainstreet]

Do you think the Morris Twins were the answer at our Forward spots? I don't. Agree we need more depth at Center but I think we could accomplish more by shoring up the Forward spot no? I guess that is assuming we have something in Len.

The way I look at it, Markieff is at least a solid NBA PF if nothing more than average. The Suns are unlikely to move the twins for any value in the near future. They are locked into significant contracts for the next four seasons.

So as I look at it, the Suns must keep at least Markieff unless they are going to give up draft picks to move the twins. If I'm going to strengthen the Suns frontline based upon the hand dealt. I look to strengthen the center position and the add backups to the 4/5 postions. In other words the Suns are going to need the bench to be a difference maker. The Suns need to minimally keep Wright, add a player like Ed Davis and draft a center.

I'm hoping the Suns are sufficient at the SF position with PJ Tucker and the growth of Warren.

 

[Covert Rain]

The way I look at it, Markieff is at least a solid NBA PF if nothing more than average. The Suns are unlikely to move the twins for any value in the near future. They are locked into significant contracts for the next four seasons.

So as I look at it, the Suns must keep at least Markieff unless they are going to give up draft picks to move the twins. If I'm going to strengthen the Suns frontline based upon the hand dealt. I look to strengthen the center position and the add backups to the 4/5 postions. In other words the Suns are going to need the bench to be a difference maker. The Suns need to minimally keep Wright, add a player like Ed Davis and draft a center.

I'm hoping the Suns are sufficient at the SF position with PJ Tucker and the growth of Warren.

Getting quality depth at Center is something every team in the NBA looks for every single year. I don't disagree with your take...it's just upgrading the Forward spot is more likely than the Center spot. Look how long it took us to find Len and we still don't know exactly what we have. Now we are supposed to find an effective backup? Probably not as likely IMO.

 

[Mainstreet]

Getting quality depth at Center is something every team in the NBA looks for every single year. I don't disagree with your take...it's just upgrading the Forward spot is more likely than the Center spot. Look how long it took us to find Len and we still don't know exactly what we have. Now we are supposed to find an effective backup? Probably not as likely IMO.

My thoughts were the Suns might be able to draft a center but who knows about the draft. Even trading for Spencer Hawes would be a huge leap forward. Players that can play forward/center are sufficient for me. Basically the Suns need to get more beef up front.

I do think the Suns will end up trading Bledsoe or Knight. Then if the Suns add a pick or two, they might end up with something significant.

 

[Cheesebeef]

concentrating on depth in the frontcourt doesn't make a lot of sense to me when you don't have good starters. Can't build the belly of the team until you at least have the bones in place.

 

[Covert Rain]

concentrating on depth in the frontcourt doesn't make a lot of sense to me when you don't have good starters. Can't build the belly of the team until you at least have the bones in place.

That's where I was going. If you don't have good starters upfront, depth doesn't make much sense. I don't think either twin is the future of this franchise at this position. I would rather spend draft picks or concentrate on trades to get your future starter before worrying about depth.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I know others have said it. I would not mind a two pg system, but the Suns do not have two true pg's. They have scoring combo guards who are neither one very good distributors. Strike that. That's how it was with Goran here.

We really do not know about Knight yet.

 

[sunsfan88]

Do you think the Morris Twins were the answer at our Forward spots? I don't. Agree we need more depth at Center but I think we could accomplish more by shoring up the Forward spot no? I guess that is assuming we have something in Len.

Kieff should be a 6th man at best due to all his defensive and rebounding problems. I won't even get into his inconsistency and maturity issues.

Marcus should at best be barely in the rotation.

 

[sunsfan88]

If the Suns decide to finally give up on the two combo guard offense, would love to see them bring in some veteran leadership, defense and big time 3pt shooting with this type of signing

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...es-injury-free-agency-trail-blazers/29133409/

 

[slinslin]

God give it a rest, the Suns system would be the same no matter what, every team in the NBA wants their SG to also have playmaker abilities if they can.